AMERICANS vs. MEXICANS

[BuddyColt]

If they've overstayed their visas then they are no longer here legally.

That will be determined in a court of law... and many times they ARE still here legally. Uncle Scam screws up a hell of a lot.

 

[BuddyColt]

I don't give a rats a$$ how you want to slice and dice the terminology.

If they are in the country and breaking the law by being here.

They need to be immediately deported; not tomorrow, today, like ASAP

What you don't care about is the Constitution of the United States
What you don't care about is Liberty
What you don't care about is the Rights of those who may invite the foreigner

You would sell my freedom and Liberties, yours and those of your own children if it helped wage a war against foreigners. YOU are the one that don't deserve Due Process. Those like you generally end up being a victim of their own hate and stupidity.

 

[Sunni Man]

I don't give a rats a$$ how you want to slice and dice the terminology.

If they are in the country and breaking the law by being here.

They need to be immediately deported; not tomorrow, today, like ASAP

What you don't care about is the Constitution of the United States
What you don't care about is Liberty
What you don't care about is the Rights of those who may invite the foreigner

You would sell my freedom and Liberties, yours and those of your own children if it helped wage a war against foreigners. YOU are the one that don't deserve Due Process. Those like you generally end up being a victim of their own hate and stupidity.

STFU you brain dead retard.

My wife is from another country and became an American citizen the LEGAL way.

She came here with the correct papers and got in line to wait her turn.

It took several years, lots of paper work, and quite a bit of money.

So I am ALL for LEGAL immigration.

But scum like you want to flood the country with ILLEGALS for some idiotic reason.

And then call people who don't agree with your insanity unpatriotic and against freedom.

 

[starcraftzzz]

'We deport the parents and do not think about the rights of their American born children. '

Pure unadulterated BS!!! We CAN'T deport american born children! That is one of their rights. The parents come here fully aware that they are here illegally and it's against the law! They get pregnant in order to have a stepping stone to this country. When they are caught and deported, they are asked if they have a relative, friend or other, to see for their child/ren. If not, then the state takes them in - unless - the parent chooses to take their child/ren with them!!! More often than not, they choose to leave their children here! Which in in itself is a big tragedy and just inhuman on THEIR part!!!

I worked in immigration law for six years. I can tell everyone on this board you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. The children don't have a say in whether or not they go to Mexico and their parents take them back more often than not.

The right wing doesnt give a shit about reality or the effects of policies

 

[BuddyColt]

'We deport the parents and do not think about the rights of their American born children. '

Pure unadulterated BS!!! We CAN'T deport american born children! That is one of their rights. The parents come here fully aware that they are here illegally and it's against the law! They get pregnant in order to have a stepping stone to this country. When they are caught and deported, they are asked if they have a relative, friend or other, to see for their child/ren. If not, then the state takes them in - unless - the parent chooses to take their child/ren with them!!! More often than not, they choose to leave their children here! Which in in itself is a big tragedy and just inhuman on THEIR part!!!

I worked in immigration law for six years. I can tell everyone on this board you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. The children don't have a say in whether or not they go to Mexico and their parents take them back more often than not.

The right wing doesnt give a shit about reality or the effects of policies

You can say that again. Many times the policies come back to bite the racists in the ass.

You can presume by looking at someone that they are anti-government, based upon the most spurious criteria. What these National Socialists don't understand is that they helped Uncle Scam define the standard by promoting this nonsensical idea that you can "look" at a person and determine their immigration status.

The LEO community developed a "Confidential Intelligence Report" against me and made plans to murder me. The LEO community tried to use the anti - immigrant inspired "Patriot Act" as justification and during the process, the same standards the xenophobes are using here were the ones being employed against me. AND I had been on their side!!! I erroneously believed they would tone down the rhetoric and look for better strategies, but they are their own worst enemies. The standards they set are the ones they are being judged by.

The National Socialists that obsess over people they insist on calling "illegal aliens" have a long history of being on the wrong side of the law in every respect. Murder, mayhem and an all out assault on the Liberties of all follow them everywhere they go.

 

[Sunni Man]

The LEO community developed a "Confidential Intelligence Report" against me and made plans to murder me. The LEO community tried to use the anti - immigrant inspired "Patriot Act" as justification and during the process, the same standards the xenophobes are using here were the ones being employed against me.

LOL, Paranoid much??

 

[Againsheila]

Mexico's Massive Image Gap: College Students Say Americans Have it All Wrong - YouTube

You do know that when the rich kids can't make it into medical school here, they go there, right? I mean, they've been doing that for as long as I can remember. The American medical students I met there are people I wouldn't like to know at all. They all thought they were better than everyone else. I saw 4 of them, all over 6 feet tall, deriding an old Mexican woman in the market over a sweater they didn't want to have to pay for, by the time I got my gumption up and headed towards them to give them a piece of my mind (I could afford it more back then) they saw me coming and quickly retreated, the cowards. I apologized to the woman and tried to explain that not all Americans are like them, but you can certainly understand why we're hated the world over when most of the Americans who can afford to travel are like those young men.

Yes, Guadalajara is a beautiful place. I loved the time I lived there. What has that got to do with illegal immigration?

 

[BuddyColt]

The LEO community developed a "Confidential Intelligence Report" against me and made plans to murder me. The LEO community tried to use the anti - immigrant inspired "Patriot Act" as justification and during the process, the same standards the xenophobes are using here were the ones being employed against me.

LOL, Paranoid much??

Yes, a bit paranoid, but as the Chief editorial writer of the Atlanta Journal Constitution wrote in his column, it was with good cause.

The event is quite real and was reported on quite extensively here when it happened. I'll tell you one damn thing, it didn't amuse me much to find out what was going on. It may be funny to you, but then again, it wasn't your ass on the line.

 

[Sunni Man]

The event is quite real and was reported on quite extensively here when it happened. I'll tell you one damn thing, it didn't amuse me much to find out what was going on. It may be funny to you, but then again, it wasn't your ass on the line.

None of this happened unless you can provide a to the news article.

 

[Moonglow]

Alot of the guys working here in the USA that were illegal from Mexico have families with kids here, and a family with kids in Mexico.

 

[Sunni Man]

The event is quite real and was reported on quite extensively here when it happened. I'll tell you one damn thing, it didn't amuse me much to find out what was going on. It may be funny to you, but then again, it wasn't your ass on the line.

None of this happened unless you can provide a to the news article.

Waiting................

 

[Zoom-boing]

Title 8 USC 1325 is in a CIVIL section of the law. It is entitled IMPROPER ENTRY. When you are on the receiving end of a divorce, you become a defendant in a CIVIL legal process; however, you do NOT become a criminal. The same holds true for Title 8 actions. As evidence of this, Title 8 (EIGHT) mentions criminal acts under Title 18 (EIGHTEEN) of the United States Code. That is because Title 8 is a civil section of the law and cannot impose a criminal penalty. I will present the entire statute Title 8 USC 1325 and explain the statute the OP misquoted (My comments are in red):

8 USC § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

Notice Title 8 USC 1325 is about an IMPROPER act, not an unlawful one nor an illegal act

a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Notice, this Section (a) deals with defining THREE different things (numbered subsections): improper time or place, avoidance of examination or inspection and the misrepresentation or concealment of facts.
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

We have three distinct acts that 8 USC 1325 deals with above and a foreigner can be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned, etc., etc. HOWEVER, those crimes are specific to what is mentioned in THAT section (subsection 3.) Read them carefully with me. If you make a false or misleading representation or if the foreigner willfully conceals a material fact, that person will be tried under Title 18. The fines and terms are listed for the convenience of those researching the issue, but improper entry is NOT listed in Section 3 above. It's because entry is NOT a crime.


(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Here you go if you can read the above subsection (b) The penalties for entering the United States improperly only nets the offender a civil fine not exceeding $250

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Again, the offender must pay a civil fine of up to $250 and it has NO bearing on whether or not they are penalized for the crimes of avoidance of examination or inspection and the misrepresentation or concealment of facts

It is both inaccurate and dishonest to refer to them as "illegal aliens." Perhaps more idiotic, the continued practice of calling people criminals absent Due Process has led to the same principles being applied to the activists on the right. Many of the anti - immigrants have been victims of their own failed strategies, namely failing to realize that by denying the immigrant Due Process, the rules are THE ANTI - IMMIGRANT CAN BE DENIED DUE PROCESS. It's a little provision of the 14th Amendment called the "equal protection of the laws."

The enlarged, above, is where you are mistaken.

"a)" gives three examples of improper entry

If you commit "1)" (under "a" definition): enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers

OR

If you commit "2)" (under "a" definition): eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers

OR

If you commit "3)" (under "a" definition): attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact

THEN

you shall for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 (criminal). Any such offense is referring to 1), OR 2), OR 3), not just 3).

If someone enters into the U.S. in a manner that is not in accordance with our laws then they are in the U.S. illegally.


Just a heads up ... administration posts in red, moderators post in orange. Perhaps choose a different color for emphasis.

 

[BuddyColt]

Title 8 USC 1325 is in a CIVIL section of the law. It is entitled IMPROPER ENTRY. When you are on the receiving end of a divorce, you become a defendant in a CIVIL legal process; however, you do NOT become a criminal. The same holds true for Title 8 actions. As evidence of this, Title 8 (EIGHT) mentions criminal acts under Title 18 (EIGHTEEN) of the United States Code. That is because Title 8 is a civil section of the law and cannot impose a criminal penalty. I will present the entire statute Title 8 USC 1325 and explain the statute the OP misquoted (My comments are in red):

8 USC § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

Notice Title 8 USC 1325 is about an IMPROPER act, not an unlawful one nor an illegal act

a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Notice, this Section (a) deals with defining THREE different things (numbered subsections): improper time or place, avoidance of examination or inspection and the misrepresentation or concealment of facts.
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

We have three distinct acts that 8 USC 1325 deals with above and a foreigner can be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned, etc., etc. HOWEVER, those crimes are specific to what is mentioned in THAT section (subsection 3.) Read them carefully with me. If you make a false or misleading representation or if the foreigner willfully conceals a material fact, that person will be tried under Title 18. The fines and terms are listed for the convenience of those researching the issue, but improper entry is NOT listed in Section 3 above. It's because entry is NOT a crime.


(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Here you go if you can read the above subsection (b) The penalties for entering the United States improperly only nets the offender a civil fine not exceeding $250

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Again, the offender must pay a civil fine of up to $250 and it has NO bearing on whether or not they are penalized for the crimes of avoidance of examination or inspection and the misrepresentation or concealment of facts

It is both inaccurate and dishonest to refer to them as "illegal aliens." Perhaps more idiotic, the continued practice of calling people criminals absent Due Process has led to the same principles being applied to the activists on the right. Many of the anti - immigrants have been victims of their own failed strategies, namely failing to realize that by denying the immigrant Due Process, the rules are THE ANTI - IMMIGRANT CAN BE DENIED DUE PROCESS. It's a little provision of the 14th Amendment called the "equal protection of the laws."

The enlarged, above, is where you are mistaken.

"a)" gives three examples of improper entry

If you commit "1)" (under "a" definition): enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers

OR

If you commit "2)" (under "a" definition): eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers

OR

If you commit "3)" (under "a" definition): attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact

THEN

you shall for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 (criminal). Any such offense is referring to 1), OR 2), OR 3), not just 3).

If someone enters into the U.S. in a manner that is not in accordance with our laws then they are in the U.S. illegally.




Just a heads up ... administration posts in red, moderators post in orange. Perhaps choose a different color for emphasis.

Let me repeat the point that you cannot read in PLAIN ENGLISH. It is very important. The criminal fines are, as you admit, a penalty under Title 18. TITLE 18 DOES NOT PROVIDE A CRIMINAL PENALTY FOR IMPROPER ENTRY.

You therefore, FAIL once again. Improper Entry is not a crime under Title 18 which specifies fines for crimes... attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact

What I put into italics are crimes under Title 18. Improper entry is NOT. If you think it is, show the cite.

 

[BuddyColt]

The event is quite real and was reported on quite extensively here when it happened. I'll tell you one damn thing, it didn't amuse me much to find out what was going on. It may be funny to you, but then again, it wasn't your ass on the line.

None of this happened unless you can provide a to the news article.

Waiting................

While you're waiting, read the links already provided. This thread is not about me.

Hey, I'm still waiting to know why the attorney / Congressman wanted to change the wording of Title 8 USC 1325 from improper entry to unlawful entry if it already were unlawful. Guess we're both going to be waiting a hell of a long time.

 

[BuddyColt]

Here's what a LEO had to say:

"Sorry, but need to chime in to clarify. Entry Without Inspection, Title 8 USC 1325, is NOT a felony. There is legistlation proposed to make it so, but not law. It is either a misdemeanor or a civil infraction depending on how you read the statute. Yes, please supply me the law that says it is a felony. I will need it, since I deal with it every day. "

Citizens arrests for illegals [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

I read the statute the way DHS and those ruling on immigration cases have stated what the law is. They say it is not a crime, but a civil procedure.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Let me repeat the point that you cannot read in PLAIN ENGLISH. It is very important. The criminal fines are, as you admit, a penalty under Title 18. TITLE 18 DOES NOT PROVIDE A CRIMINAL PENALTY FOR IMPROPER ENTRY.

You therefore, FAIL once again. Improper Entry is not a crime under Title 18 which specifies fines for crimes... attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact

What I put into italics are crimes under Title 18. Improper entry is NOT. If you think it is, show the cite.

I did, above.

If you enter not in accordance with what is listed below, (a: 1, 2, 3; b: 1, 2; c; d) you have entered the U.S. illegally.


Below, under a) are three entries. If you enter not following any one of these (hence the term OR they have provided) you "shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.


Title 8 is civil, Title 18 is criminal. Yes? Title 18 also provides imprisonment not just fines.

As for the improper entry? That's the title of the entire section. It ALL falls under improper entry. Look, I made it big for you below.

8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien


(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.

 

[Sunni Man]

None of this happened unless you can provide a to the news article.

Waiting................

While you're waiting, read the links already provided. This thread is not about me.

I once knew a fellow who claimed he was Special Forces in Vietnam. He was always tell people about his secret missions and daring deeds. Finally, me and some other vets took him to task. Come to find out he was never in Vietnam. It was all a bunch of B.S.

Much like your story.

When pressed for facts.

You deflect; and then fold like a house of cards.

No one here believes your idiotic story.

You might try foisting it on another forum; because your credibility here is toast.

 

[BuddyColt]

Waiting................

While you're waiting, read the links already provided. This thread is not about me.

I once knew a fellow who claimed he was Special Forces in Vietnam. He was always tell people about his secret missions and daring deeds. Finally, me and some other vets took him to task. Come to find out he was never in Vietnam. It was all a bunch of B.S.

Much like your story.

When pressed for facts.

You deflect; and then fold like a house of cards.

No one here believes your idiotic story.

You might try foisting it on another forum; because your credibility here is toast.

I'm not used to having to address dumbasses, but here's the deal:

I have given you a number of links to articles that, if you read them, lead back to me personally along with any "proof" necessary to establish who I am and what I am.

In case your blind, non English speaking, illiterate carcass don't get the picture, I don't give a flying fuck what you believe or disbelieve about me. I don't too much care what you and the outspoken National Socialists say about me. I've been dealing with your kind for a number of years and have sufficiently responded to them. Here's an example:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Enemies Among Us

I'm not so stupid as to think because you believe you can bully me that you speak for any portion of the posters on this board. You hatemongering bullies are usually trying to compensate for some deficiency (be it a small brain or a short dick), but you're one hell of a long way from intimidating me.

I don't have a damn thing to prove to you. I made a casual reference about WHY I am in this fight. The facts of the case stand on their own. You've not come out with your story about how an illiterate Mexican stood in a welfare line all day long, stayed in the hospital waiting room all night and then "stole" your job at Mickey D's.

There is one thing about this, if you had answers or facts, you would present them. The fact is you don't. So, you hang with a bunch of cigarette smoking rednecks that can't spell half the words they speak and cannot understand English beyond single syllable words.

Wake up Dude, I don't give a rat's ass about you and don't care about what you think about me. From here on out, you can rant and rave all you want. If you are so interested in me personally, use the links and do some research. It's a different topic - one that is not as important as your dumb ass selling the Liberties of the American people out because you're too chickenshit to do anything on your own. You sit here like a God of the board and pretend to be important, but you fail to provide answers to the topic.

So, excuse me while I ignore you. And to anybody that thinks about playing your game, let me warn them: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Sunni Man]

LOL, nice little melt down Junior.

Been on any "secret" missions lately??

 

[Zoom-boing]

While you're waiting, read the links already provided. This thread is not about me.

I once knew a fellow who claimed he was Special Forces in Vietnam. He was always tell people about his secret missions and daring deeds. Finally, me and some other vets took him to task. Come to find out he was never in Vietnam. It was all a bunch of B.S.

Much like your story.

When pressed for facts.

You deflect; and then fold like a house of cards.

No one here believes your idiotic story.

You might try foisting it on another forum; because your credibility here is toast.

I'm not used to having to address dumbasses, but here's the deal:

I have given you a number of links to articles that, if you read them, lead back to me personally along with any "proof" necessary to establish who I am and what I am.

In case your blind, non English speaking, illiterate carcass don't get the picture, I don't give a flying fuck what you believe or disbelieve about me. I don't too much care what you and the outspoken National Socialists say about me. I've been dealing with your kind for a number of years and have sufficiently responded to them. Here's an example:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Enemies Among Us

I'm not so stupid as to think because you believe you can bully me that you speak for any portion of the posters on this board. You hatemongering bullies are usually trying to compensate for some deficiency (be it a small brain or a short dick), but you're one hell of a long way from intimidating me.

I don't have a damn thing to prove to you. I made a casual reference about WHY I am in this fight. The facts of the case stand on their own. You've not come out with your story about how an illiterate Mexican stood in a welfare line all day long, stayed in the hospital waiting room all night and then "stole" your job at Mickey D's.

There is one thing about this, if you had answers or facts, you would present them. The fact is you don't. So, you hang with a bunch of cigarette smoking rednecks that can't spell half the words they speak and cannot understand English beyond single syllable words.

Wake up Dude, I don't give a rat's ass about you and don't care about what you think about me. From here on out, you can rant and rave all you want. If you are so interested in me personally, use the links and do some research. It's a different topic - one that is not as important as your dumb ass selling the Liberties of the American people out because you're too chickenshit to do anything on your own. You sit here like a God of the board and pretend to be important, but you fail to provide answers to the topic.

So, excuse me while I ignore you. And to anybody that thinks about playing your game, let me warn them: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Buttercup