America Without God: No 'Moral Facts'

[sealybobo]

The only 2 commandments that are laws are murder and theft. The rest is voluntary. Worship only god? I worship no god. Keep the sabbath? Nope. I blasphemer all the time. And I am being dishonest when I say I commit adultery all the time because its not against the law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Framers understood well the bane of religion, hence the Establishment Clause.

That we've flourished as a secular Nation is a testament to their wisdom, and an indictment of the theocracy many Christian fundamentalist seek to create.

 

[hortysir]

Sorry those replies ran together. Edit function on mobile sight sucks.
I do tend to contradict myself at times.
While I don't rank homosexuality better or worse than theft or lying in the litany of sins man can commit, I would only shoot to stop because I do view taking another life nearer to the top of the list. Never mind how it would effect me emotionally.

And all of this does pertain to the OP because there has to be a standard that tells us what is good and evil.
Like darkness can't exist without light, how can there be evil without a standard of GOoD.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[



But there are no moral facts sans religion.

The Right likes to call secular humanism a religion. I guess that means that the morality of secular humanism is fact.

For evidence, google: secular humanism religion

"The Right blah blah blah...."

Afraid to address lil' ol' moi?

There is no you. You consist of an endless stream of other people's words.

 

[NYcarbineer]

3. ".... if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that it’s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?.... many college-aged students don’t believe in moral facts."

That's quite a remarkable generalization about public schools...

Can you prove that our public schools are teaching children that killing people for fun is not wrong?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I was just reading about the many changes religions have made to their particular version of the bible. They all have an agenda and they have changed the bible to help them push that agenda.

Funny to me is that all religions say their god is the 'one true god' and that all others are "idols". The basic selling point of all religions is that their god can beat up your god.

Well if you want me to join or convert you have to tell me why yours is better. Every popular religion has a unusual hook or twist that makes them better than the rest.

Not to me.

I've never found any religion more attractive to me than science and fact-based reality.

But there are no moral facts sans religion.


....according to the philosopher, the problem is due to the public school.



10. "...our public schools teach students that all claims are either facts or opinions and that all value and moral claims fall into the latter camp. The punchline: there are no moral facts. And if there are no moral facts, then there are no moral truths.

The inconsistency in this curriculum is obvious.

.... my son brought home a list of student rights and responsibilities. Had he already read the lesson on fact vs. opinion, he might have noted that the supposed rights of other students were based on no more than opinions. According to the school’s curriculum, it certainly wasn’t true that his classmates deserved to be treated a particular way — that would make it a fact. Similarly, it wasn’t really true that he had any responsibilities — that would be to make a value claim a truth.



It should not be a surprise that there is rampant cheating on college campuses: If we’ve taught our students for 12 years that there is no fact of the matter as to whether cheating is wrong, we can’t very well blame them for doing so later on.

If it’s not true that it’s wrong to murder a cartoonist with whom one disagrees, then how can we be outraged?

If there are no truths about what is good or valuable or right, how can we prosecute people for crimes against humanity? If it’s not true that all humans are created equal, then why vote for any political system that doesn’t benefit you over others?" http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0

Humans create morality.

I don't believe what you totalitarians do would be called 'morality.'

If you believe the Bible, The Ten Commandments are commands from a single being who is all-powerful and answers to no one.

That is the perfect example of totalitarian. The God of the Bible is an autocrat.

 

[Derideo_Te]

But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts

Since God does not exist you just proved that all morality is opinion.

Great job, PoliticalSpice.

Oh, and yes, your rebuttal must include absolute indisputable evidence that your God exists otherwise you will just be tacitly admitting that I am right.

Have a nice Sunday.

Nah...you just re-established that you're a moron.

Ironic!

Thanks for tacitly admitting that your God does not exist.

Have a nice day.

 

[Toro]

Agree ... Does anyone actually read PC, Flanders, Emily or that Spetch freak?

"Define "murder" and what is bad (or good) about it.
Who says?"

Huh?

"Conversation????

No....I'm merely attempting to educate you."

That pretty much sums it up.

She actually believes she is an authority on "god's authority" and will now wander and meander around, not making much sense but telling us that we're stupid for not getting her weird point of view.

Her knowledge does not compare with her ego.

It is Sunday...why isn't she at church?

I ask this every sunday

I am Christian...I go to Church every Sunday and have a strong set of ethical standards because of my relationship with Jesus. It bothers me when pseud-Christians spew nonsense on the interweb and don't even go to church!

Church is boring.

That's why I don't go.

If they just had titty's and beer...

Heck, I'd just take the beer!

But if there was scotch ... Whoa! I'd become a priest or a minister or whatever!

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. I was listening to Dennis Prager on the radio, and he referred to this NYTimes piece by a secular philosopher, called "Why Our Children Don’t Think There Are Moral Facts." http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...ildren-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0

How do you reconcile the characteristics of democracy with the characteristics of a religion based autocracy?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Framers understood well the bane of religion, hence the Establishment Clause.

That we've flourished as a secular Nation is a testament to their wisdom, and an indictment of the theocracy many Christian fundamentalist seek to create.

The Free Exercise Clause states:

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

The Founders, religious all, made sure that they would show the proper respect for religion.

You really should take a course in law.

 

[PoliticalChic]

[



But there are no moral facts sans religion.

The Right likes to call secular humanism a religion. I guess that means that the morality of secular humanism is fact.

For evidence, google: secular humanism religion

"The Right blah blah blah...."

Afraid to address lil' ol' moi?

There is no you. You consist of an endless stream of other people's words.

My thoughts.


I give credit to others who had them....you, on the other hand, parrot the DNC, MSNBC, NYTimes, ect. and never do so.

You are a Liberal Plagiarist.




...and, of course, the NYLiar.

 

[PoliticalChic]

But...without the authority of God, there are no moral facts

Since God does not exist you just proved that all morality is opinion.

Great job, PoliticalSpice.

Oh, and yes, your rebuttal must include absolute indisputable evidence that your God exists otherwise you will just be tacitly admitting that I am right.

Have a nice Sunday.

Nah...you just re-established that you're a moron.

Ironic!

Thanks for tacitly admitting that your God does not exist.

Have a nice day.

Any day where I get to expose what a moron you are is a nice day....so....

...I did.

 

[Dot Com]

The Framers understood well the bane of religion, hence the Establishment Clause.

That we've flourished as a secular Nation is a testament to their wisdom, and an indictment of the theocracy many Christian fundamentalist seek to create.

Agreed.

Many of the influential one's were Deists anyway which today's thumpers would decry

 

[NYcarbineer]

[



But there are no moral facts sans religion.

The Right likes to call secular humanism a religion. I guess that means that the morality of secular humanism is fact.

For evidence, google: secular humanism religion

"The Right blah blah blah...."

Afraid to address lil' ol' moi?

There is no you. You consist of an endless stream of other people's words.

My thoughts.


I give credit to others who had them....you, on the other hand, parrot the DNC, MSNBC, NYTimes, ect. and never do so.

You are a Liberal Plagiarist.




...and, of course, the NYLiar.

Really? Then cite what I posted in this thread that is plagiarized.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

The American Revolution had nothing to do with religion, except as a rejection of the idea of the divine right of kings.

 

[hortysir]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

The American Revolution had nothing to do with religion, except as a rejection of the idea of the divine right of kings.

It had nothing to do with the Church of England? That controlled the Monarchy?
That didn't allow for any other religions/voices/opinions?

Wow.
The shit I learn around here.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

The American Revolution had nothing to do with religion, except as a rejection of the idea of the divine right of kings.

Let's take that flight of fancy and imagine you with an education.

Then you wouldn't post nonsense like that.....


.....but....you are the NYLiar.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The morals the OP attributes to a deity are in fact created by man, where man is capable of moral behavior absent "god" or religion.

 

[sealybobo]

The more fundamental inception was the French Revolution, which threw out God and religion.

And yet, The Terror was carried out under state religion:

Cult of the Supreme Being - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Astounding what a fabrication you've posted.

As the link describes it....'a form of deism..."


Seems that anything could be so describes.


The French Revolution eradicated the God and religion....actual religion.

The facts:

1. With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the religion civile, the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).
   1. Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.
2. In Lyon, the archbishop refused to swear allegiance to the republic, and was removed, replaced by the revolutionary bishop Antoine Lamourette. But the people of Lyon responded by clinging to their guns and religion. So, the Convention ordered that Lyon, the second-largest city in France, be destroyed and a monument erected on the ashes proclaiming: “Lyon waged war against liberty; Lyon is no more.”
   1. "The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)a was an atheistic belief system established in France and intended as a replacement for Christianity during the French Revolution." Cult of Reason - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
   2. Joseph Fouché, head of the de-Christianization, arranged for the “bankers, scholars, aristocrats, priests, nuns, wealthy merchants, their wives, mistresses and children” to be dragged from their homes and killed by firing squads. He then wrote that Christianity in the provinces “had been struck down once and for all.”
3. In lieu of religious holidays, which were banned, the revolutionaries put on “Fetes of Reason.” The first was in November 1793, in the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been renamed “The Temple of Reason,” with “To Philosophy” carved on the façade and the altar named the “Altar of Reason.” It was an ACLU fantasy come true!

From "Demonic," chapter seven, Coulter.



You've really revealed yourself to be an ass, huh?

Well, I wasn't the one who quoted propaganda pulp as if it were somehow the least bit reliable.

The funny thing is that most fundies here don't even consider Catholicism to be real Christianity.

So you've retreated from the fabrication that the French Revolution....unlike the American Revolution.....was based on religion.

Great.

What was the 30 year war about? Hint it was between catholics and protestants