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I pointed out that the founding fathers allowed state established religions which negated your argument.
Again... each state was able to establish their own state religion. It was up to the states to decide. The national government was forbidden to interfere.I pointed out that the founding fathers allowed state established religions which negated your argument.
They allowed “religions” or “no religions at alll” which is multiculturalism. You area a very confused Christian. You think the framers required states to establish Christian State religion.
That’s a fallacy.
It's your fallacy, not mine. I never said that, dummy.You think the framers required states to establish Christian State religion.
That’s a fallacy.
It's your fallacy, not mine. I never said that, dummy.
The culture was Christian. Overwhelmingly so.It's your fallacy, not mine. I never said that, dummy.
You say America was founded as a Christian Nation not a multicultural nation. For America to be a Christian nation there has to be a mandatory requirement for the states to establish a Christian State religion. There is no such mandate in the Constitution.
Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
The Greeks justified slavery based upon moral superiority. The Romans believed that slavery was against the laws of nature but justified it based upon state superiority. The founding fathers believed that slavery was against the laws of nature but knew not how to end it and found the nation but intended for slavery to perish. And they took steps towards that end by writing into the Constitution the earliest possible date to ban the importation of slaves and then ending it on that date. They also wrote the Northwest Ordinance which halted the expansion of slavery. The Confederate states believed as the Greeks did and justified slavery on the grounds of moral superiority. If this manifested itself in believing they were converting them to Christianity that was nothing more than a rationalization of wrong as right to absolve them of wrong doing.Thomas Jefferson's black lover was the 1/2 sister of his wife. They traveled to France where they stayed a long while-----if she had wanted to be free, she could have demanded so there. Jefferson turned his children by her loose. The economy and their situation was different then than now-------to have turned loose a bunch of uneducated slaves with little job skills would have likely been a worse than keeping them as slaves. There is no evidence of Jefferson abusing his slaves. On the plantation--they lived in their family units, had a job, and thusly food and housing. He certainly wouldn't have been bible thumping to death either giving his belief system.
The bible promoted slavery---and sorry I realize that Americans have been brainwashed and fed propaganda in schools but the facts are----enslaving blacks was justified because it was felt in part that the non-believers could be made christians if they were enslaved. Slavery did not start off based on the color of one's skin---it started off based on their religious beliefs. It started with if they themselves weren't christians they could be enslaved and then it became if the area they were from wasn't christian but they were that they could be enslaved, and then it became if the area that their people came from wasn't typically christian then they could be enslaved. There was a fast progression in late 1600 thru 1700 with the ideal of slavery EVOLVING in the americas.
If you wish to credit the puritans with something---their work ethic is the biggest contribution---they were religious a-holes in other aspects.
.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery.
You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian. I would have to differ with you on that. The Puritans basically became nonconformist denominations, especially in Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches. And yes, the Quakers did play a major part in converting America pointing it towards the abolitionist movement: (see) American Abolitionism and Religion, Divining America, TeacherServe©, National Humanities Center.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
bing agrees with you nipper -
.
View attachment 388307
.
and maybe a few other christians, everyone else knows you are lying.
.You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian. I would have to differ with you on that. The Puritans basically became nonconformist denominations, especially in Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches. And yes, the Quakers did play a major part in converting America pointing it towards the abolitionist movement: (see) American Abolitionism and Religion, Divining America, TeacherServe©, National Humanities Center.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
bing agrees with you nipper -
.
View attachment 388307
.
and maybe a few other christians, everyone else knows you are lying.
.You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian.
Good Lord, you are a douchebag..You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian. I would have to differ with you on that. The Puritans basically became nonconformist denominations, especially in Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches. And yes, the Quakers did play a major part in converting America pointing it towards the abolitionist movement: (see) American Abolitionism and Religion, Divining America, TeacherServe©, National Humanities Center.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
bing agrees with you nipper -
.
View attachment 388307
.
and maybe a few other christians, everyone else knows you are lying.
.You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian.
whatever that is, born again christian - is not a born again, free spirit.
that is neither here nor there - the fact is the bible belt to this day would not be less happy to see slavery return to have someone else do their work for them one way or another.
you're wrong, nipper the majority of christens did nothing to stop slavery yours is a religion that persecutes and victimizes the innocent and has been since the 4th century - recorded history uninterrupted from that time to the present example - trump.
en.wikipedia.org
I see the general public around me daily. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter what color, most people want someone else to do the backbreaking labor, and to do it for the least amount possible. Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not when I say you must be born again.".You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian. I would have to differ with you on that. The Puritans basically became nonconformist denominations, especially in Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches. And yes, the Quakers did play a major part in converting America pointing it towards the abolitionist movement: (see) American Abolitionism and Religion, Divining America, TeacherServe©, National Humanities Center.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
bing agrees with you nipper -
.
View attachment 388307
.
and maybe a few other christians, everyone else knows you are lying.
.You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian.
whatever that is, born again christian - is not a born again, free spirit.
that is neither here nor there - the fact is the bible belt to this day would not be less happy to see slavery return to have someone else do their work for them one way or another.
you're wrong, nipper the majority of christens did nothing to stop slavery yours is a religion that persecutes and victimizes the innocent and has been since the 4th century - recorded history uninterrupted from that time to the present example - trump.
.I see the general public around me daily. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter what color, most people want someone else to do the backbreaking labor, and to do it for the least amount possible. Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not when I say you must be born again.".You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian. I would have to differ with you on that. The Puritans basically became nonconformist denominations, especially in Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches. And yes, the Quakers did play a major part in converting America pointing it towards the abolitionist movement: (see) American Abolitionism and Religion, Divining America, TeacherServe©, National Humanities Center.Jefferson also took full advantage of SLAVERY, as well as, the poor slave girl he used but wouldn't think of marrying, nor provide her with a decent place to live. He never freed his slaves, even on his death bed. The Puritans helped to promote the abolition of slavery. It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.Anyone convinced or of the opinion that Protestant Christianity was ”tied” to the US Constitution when it was written are certainly welcome to bring history, facts, and the best knowledge about the hearts, minds and souls of our founding fathers and the religion, philosophy and science they absorbed during their lifetimes to make that case.
I will make the case for separate and “untied” because I am certain that all must agree that Protestant Christianity was deeply involved in just about every aspect of the British America’s colonial culture ever since the day a group of Protestant Christians, subjects of the King of England, came to the New World aboard the Arbella in 1630 hearing these words from Governor John Winthrop as they sailed across the Atlantic:
“Secondly for the work we have in hand. It is by a mutual consent, through a special overvaluing providence and a more than an ordinary approbation of the churches of Christ, to seek out a place of cohabitation and consortship under a due form of government both civil and ecclesiastical. In such cases as this, the care of the public must oversway all private respects, by which, not only conscience, but mere civil policy, doth bind us. For it is a true rule that particular estates cannot subsist in the ruin of the public.” https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
Yes, Christian settlers came to the New World with leaders such as Governor Winthrop to set up a Christian government tied to the British Crown.
All true, but one century later - an European and very non-Christian influence engaged the minds of many of Colonial America’s leaders who led during the Revolution and the founding of the United Stars of America.
The new founding influence was Deism. Here are a few paragraphs about that:
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity. WRITTEN BY: David L. Holmes
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
“The sweeping disagreement over the religious faiths of the Founders arises from a question of discrepancy. Did their private beliefs differ from the orthodox teachings of their churches? On the surface, most Founders appear to have been orthodox (or “right-believing”) Christians. Most were baptized, listed on church rolls, married to practicing Christians, and frequent or at least sporadic attenders of services of Christian worship. In public statements, most invoked divine assistance.”
“But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs.”
“Thus, Deism inevitably subverted orthodox Christianity. Persons influenced by the movement had little reason to read the Bible, to pray, to attend church, or to participate in such rites as baptism, Holy Communion, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) by bishops.”
“But Deistic thought was immensely popular in colleges from the middle of the 18th into the 19th century. Thus, it influenced many educated (as well as uneducated) males of the Revolutionary generation. Although such men would generally continue their public affiliation with Christianity after college, they might inwardly hold unorthodox religious views. Depending on the extent to which Americans of Christian background were influenced by Deism, their religious beliefs would fall into three categories: non-Christian Deism, Christian Deism, and orthodox Christianity.”
Moving forward I will show how Deusm, Theism and Unitarianism, in the enlightened minds of sufficient numbers of our founding fathers is what brought about the new concept of separation of church and state thus ‘untying’ the knot between the US Federal Government and the dominate Protestant Christian Church and religion that Governor Winthrop brought to New England.
Thomas Jefferson was a big huge ATHEIST hiding in the closet-----------------------------my hero. He and the puritans would have hated one another------- most of founders, the important ones, were by no means anywhere at any time close to be puritans. The puritans didn't like themselves and their idealogy was largely absent from our founding and founders. Our founders were a bit more of CADS and Individualists--more ENLIGHTENED than the Puritans would ever want to be.
.It took Christians about 2000 years of nagging and Bible thumping to end slavery, but they certainly are the only ones who deserve any credit.
bing agrees with you nipper -
.
View attachment 388307
.
and maybe a few other christians, everyone else knows you are lying.
.You seem to think that everyone who wears a cross or carries one is a born-again Christian.
whatever that is, born again christian - is not a born again, free spirit.
that is neither here nor there - the fact is the bible belt to this day would not be less happy to see slavery return to have someone else do their work for them one way or another.
you're wrong, nipper the majority of christens did nothing to stop slavery yours is a religion that persecutes and victimizes the innocent and has been since the 4th century - recorded history uninterrupted from that time to the present example - trump.
.Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not when I say you must be born again."
