Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

[Viktor]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

 

[luiza]

In that case, you should also check out those who tell us that our planet has been visited on at least five different occasions and that there is ample evidence to support such (r)evolutionary thinking .

DYOR . You might be somewhat surprised and nobody says that you are forced to believe any of it .

 

[alang1216]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

I think the ultimate answer will be that evolution is an incredibly complex process but natural selection will remain a major part of the process.

 

[1srelluc]

Seems to me natural selection is falling down on the job.

 

[luiza]

Seems to me natural selection is falling down on the job.

Guess that is what "they" saw immediately and realised we were ideal slave material .

And after they had played around with our DNA , the remaining smart ones ( post The Flood presumably )employed the same strategy ---- make the mass of Sheeple work for those strong enough to seize power and wealth .

Now a certain interesting polymath believes Oumuamua was an advanced El ship that signals their return in our lifetime, and this is known by WEF and all major country top individuals .

And if that seems bat shit crazy , check out his support evidence and it will stop your laughter on the spot .

 

[Mushroom]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

Does not mean they can not just glance at it in a moment, see it is nothing but pseudo-scientific garbage, and dismiss it.

 

[luiza]

Does not mean they can not just glance at it in a moment, see it is nothing but pseudo-scientific garbage, and dismiss it.

And how exactly would you go about doing that ?

How do you determine the pseudo scientific ? Does it come labelled ?
Have you a PhD in Physics , Chemistry , Biology and Maths ? Just for starters.

I listened to an outline statement that Covid was caused by Oumuamua and felt a fit of giggles coming on .
But how wrong I would have been to dismiss it out of hand . The support evidence and use of pattern analysis was breath taking .
I learned things that I probably would not readily find in days of searching and I was intrigued and royally entertained . Perhaps also educated.
Worth thinking about imho .

 

[Mushroom]

And how exactly would you go about doing that ?

Well, first of all I look at the site itself that the claims come from.

And sorry, one that claims to take everything from faith and holistic is not a valid site for things based on science.

Then I look for other sites to collaborate the claims. When I find only similar claims on other such sites and nothing in more mainstream one, that is just confirmation that it should be rejected.

This is an area for science, not religion. Threads about religion and faith based beliefs simply do not belong in the science area.

 

[Hollie]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

I think the site you linked to is promoting some real misunderstandings of biological evolution. Natural selection drives the process of evolution. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Natural selection decides what genetic variation promote fitness and similarly, those genetic variations which hinders fitness. It is populations which experience a change in gene frequency as the fit genes become more common over time, and the unfit genes become rarer. This results in the corresponding physical traits that promote fitness evolving in the direction of even greater fitness. Genetic variation is constantly being added by mutations on the DNA molecule.

 

[scruffy]

I think the ultimate answer will be that evolution is an incredibly complex process but natural selection will remain a major part of the process.

The complexity is very easy to understand.

Here's how it works: "the system in isolation" couples to the environment. Therefore it is no longer isolated.

Technically speaking, this happens whenever there are non-zero ground states, and whenever the coupled system has ground states of lower energy than any of the components.

"Coupling" occurs in many ways. In Ising spin systems the spins line up (correlate). When there are coupled oscillators there may be phase interaction (you can Google the Kuramoto dynamic if you're interested).

"Coupling" involves some sophisticated math, it's often difficult to parametrize nonlinear systems. However the state of the art these days is pretty astounding, for example a pair of Japanese researchers just showed how neural action potentials J-couple to paramagnetic oxygen atoms lining the cell membrane.

The EFFECTS of complexity are sometimes difficult to understand, but the mechanisms of complexity are pretty simple. Self organizing systems depend on long range interactions between the components. Such systems are effectively "entangled" in the physical sense, and thus their states have to be described in terms of superpositions.

 

[scruffy]

I think the site you linked to is promoting some real misunderstandings of biological evolution. Natural selection drives the process of evolution. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Natural selection decides what genetic variation promote fitness and similarly, those genetic variations which hinders fitness. It is populations which experience a change in gene frequency as the fit genes become more common over time, and the unfit genes become rarer. This results in the corresponding physical traits that promote fitness evolving in the direction of even greater fitness. Genetic variation is constantly being added by mutations on the DNA molecule.

"Objective" criteria for fitness?

Maybe from an anthropocentric perspective...

Try to look at it from the biophysical point of view of the cell.

For example - a simple example - nutrition. Which in human beings may reflect as "hunger".

A living organism has a need for nutrition. So you may call this an "objective" criterion. But let's look a little deeper.

A bacterium such as E Coli, is already motile (as distinct from moss and such). It has "cilia", that it uses to move itself around.

When it senses a source of nutrition, it will stop and hover over the food.

Now, think about this, and remember there are no neurons involved. E Coli has chemoreceptors embedded in the cell membrane, that "sense food", they're a primitive version of olfaction.

When food is encountered, the chemoreceptors must send a chemical or electrical message to the cilia, to tell them to stop beating.

Then, after the organism is securely on top of the food, it must "ingest" the food, and then "digest" it.

This is very sophisticated sequential behavior from a single celled organism, and it does all the same things humans do when we eat, just in a less sophisticated way

"Fitness" in this case, means the complete set of sequential behaviors (the eventual digestion of the food being the goal). If you can't sense the food, you're not fit. If you can't ingest it, you're not fit. If you can't digest it, you're not fit. So "fitness" in this case has multiple sequential components which can be completely separated in terms of functionality.

The question is, was there one attractor, or many?

Are there any examples of successful organisms that can sense but not move, or move but not digest?

Well... there are organisms that can put themselves into a dormant state where they don't require any nutrition for a very long time. Most of them, however, can eat and move around. Which is kind of odd, when you think about it. What kind of attractor could select for such a thing?

What people call "selection", is part of a reaction-diffusion process that involves isolated systems coupling to the environment. Selection means the unfit simply die, they are selected "out". It's not that the successful ones are selected, it's that the unsuccessful ones aren't.

 

[scruffy]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

You'll want to check out the actin protein.

Actin is one of the most highly conserved of all eukaryotic proteins. Bacteria have a version called MreB which is similar in structure and function.

Actin is EVERYWHERE in the cell. It's part of the cytoskeleton, which defines the shape of the cell. It's in the nucleus, where it gets involved in replication and meiosis. It's in muscles, where it causes contractions of the muscle fibers. It's in synapses, where it causes neurotransmitter receptors to migrate from the periphery of the cell membrane into the hot spots.

Actin is a globular protein, a round ball. But it forms long filaments by polymerization, and in its filamentous form it can bind myosin and other molecular motors.

Actin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[luiza]

Well, first of all I look at the site itself that the claims come from.

And sorry, one that claims to take everything from faith and holistic is not a valid site for things based on science.

Then I look for other sites to collaborate the claims.

With the best will in the world the last thing I need from anybody is chats on the scientific process .
It has always ruled my life .

Unfortunately every assumption made in your post is wrong .Badly.

You clearly have no idea where my information is from and if you had resisted making wild guesses you would know that I am only interested in real evidence and not involved in matters that are "religious and holistic" to support my thought or narrative structures.

If you wish to query or discuss Oumuamua , for example, make sure that you have first researched the subject , preferably in depth , and then ask questions before airing your own feelings and prejudices.

 

[scruffy]

And how exactly would you go about doing that ?

How do you determine the pseudo scientific ? Does it come labelled ?
Have you a PhD in Physics , Chemistry , Biology and Maths ? Just for starters.

I listened to an outline statement that Covid was caused by Oumuamua and felt a fit of giggles coming on .
But how wrong I would have been to dismiss it out of hand . The support evidence and use of pattern analysis was breath taking .
I learned things that I probably would not readily find in days of searching and I was intrigued and royally entertained . Perhaps also educated.
Worth thinking about imho .

Huh?

Just because you can use a screwdriver doesn't mean you can build a spaceship.

There's all manner of abuse of science these days. Like people trying to be impressive with sophisticated methods, which most people don't understand so they simply end up accepting the claims.

I'm pretty sure Covid came from a Chinese lab. They wouldn't have done what they did if it came from a comet.

 

[scruffy]

Alternatives To Evolution By Natural Selection

An honest student will check out everything

So check this out:

The universe is a giant computer.

Chemical computer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The same math that gave us malonic acid and bromine salts, gave us human beings.

These systems do everything ordinary digital computers can do, and everything quantum computers can do, and more.

 

[scruffy]

I think the site you linked to is promoting some real misunderstandings of biological evolution. Natural selection drives the process of evolution. Genetic variation might be random, but the natural selection that acts on that variation is not. Adaptation is non-random, as it is the result of objective criteria for fitness.

Natural selection decides what genetic variation promote fitness and similarly, those genetic variations which hinders fitness. It is populations which experience a change in gene frequency as the fit genes become more common over time, and the unfit genes become rarer. This results in the corresponding physical traits that promote fitness evolving in the direction of even greater fitness. Genetic variation is constantly being added by mutations on the DNA molecule.

Here is an example of an isolated system expanding by coupling to its environment.

We begin with a "complex system in a chaotic state". ("The isolated system, which let's say is a Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction in a beaker).

We then "add noise" in the form of white noise, which represents a loose coupling to an unknown environment.

And, we then observe that the chaotic behavior ceases, and is replaced by a regular and stable geometry.

White noise is the weakest kind of coupling, it's basically a partition of 0.

Technically, we observe that the Lyapunov exponent for the system transitions from positive to negative as the noise amplitude increases.

All systems that have this property, and for which the average log of the Lebesgue derivative is negative, will exhibit this same behavior.

Whether they are made of silicon, DNA, light, or coin flips.

 

[Mushroom]

With the best will in the world the last thing I need from anybody is chats on the scientific process .
It has always ruled my life .

Unfortunately every assumption made in your post is wrong .Badly.

You clearly have no idea where my information is from

Your "will" is not science, that is only your personal opinion. And personal opinion is neither science or fact.

What assumption? I looked at the article, I looked at the source. I looked at other "articles" from the same source, and they were all the exact same pseudo-scientific nonsense. That is based on what they themselves post, it is not "my assumption".

And yes, I know where you got your information because I looked at the site.

*facepalm*

You can lead a horse to knowledge, but you can't make it think.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And how exactly would you go about doing that ?

You get a formal education. There, the instructor will say to you that all of those ideas have been considered and ruled out. If you want to know why, you ask.