Alien Life? You better hope God exists!

[sealybobo]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.

Is this god?

How about this?

 

[sealybobo]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.

The Drake Equation is an attempt to encapsulate all the variables that would be relevant to establishing the number of intelligent civilizations that existed in the Milky Way galaxy and which were broadcasting radio signals at this particular point in time. The Drake Equation is composed of seven terms.

 

[sealybobo]

According to the Wikipedia entry for the Drake Equation, the following values were those used in the original formulation of the Drake Equation:
R = 10
fp = 0.5
ne = 2.0
fl = 1.0
fi = 0.01
fc = 0.01
L = 10000

In other words, besides human society, zero to 15,785 advanced technological societies could exist in the Milky Way.

But the Drake equation must not be evaluated only by the numerical values it produces. Some say the Drake equation is a way to organize our ignorance.

 

[Boss]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.

The Drake Equation is an attempt to encapsulate all the variables that would be relevant to establishing the number of intelligent civilizations that existed in the Milky Way galaxy and which were broadcasting radio signals at this particular point in time. The Drake Equation is composed of seven terms.

Everything here is a SPECULATION. You have NO way of knowing ANY of this stuff with ANY degree of certainty. It's basically a wild guess.

I don't even understand what a "broadcasting civilization" is.... we've not gotten radio signals from ANYWHERE! That's total Science Fiction! Did this come from some movie you watched?

 

[Boss]

But the Drake equation must not be evaluated only by the numerical values it produces. Some say the Drake equation is a way to organize our ignorance.

Well you definitely need a way to organize your ignorance!

Your 'Trapper Keeper' is awfully full, silly boob!

 

[hobelim]

But the Drake equation must not be evaluated only by the numerical values it produces. Some say the Drake equation is a way to organize our ignorance.

Well you definitely need a way to organize your ignorance!

Your 'Trapper Keeper' is awfully full, silly boob!

lol...You have to admit he sounds very intelligent when he copies and pastes. Not a pee pee or yoo hoo in sight!

 

[sealybobo]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.

The Drake Equation is an attempt to encapsulate all the variables that would be relevant to establishing the number of intelligent civilizations that existed in the Milky Way galaxy and which were broadcasting radio signals at this particular point in time. The Drake Equation is composed of seven terms.

Everything here is a SPECULATION. You have NO way of knowing ANY of this stuff with ANY degree of certainty. It's basically a wild guess.

I don't even understand what a "broadcasting civilization" is.... we've not gotten radio signals from ANYWHERE! That's total Science Fiction! Did this come from some movie you watched?

Of course it's speculation. But these are the questions we need to be able to answer in order to give you the answer you are looking for. You do want to find out if we are alone don't you? Well at least this guy Drake has thought it out.

He was telling how they weren't finding any suns with planets surrounding them and then another telescope in another country was the first to find one. Then they figured out what they were doing wrong. So they started finding lots of stars with suns surrounding them. Then they realized the easiest suns to find are the ones that circle their stars in just 4 days. But what they need to find is a star with a Jupiter. Jupiter protects Earth from meteors and asteroids. And now we have found lots of suns with Jupiters surrounding them. Surely there must be earth planets there too. We just don't know yet because they are so far away and all we see are dots.

But my god how much more we know today because of people like me who believe there is life on other planets. If it were up to people like you we wouldn't even look. You are too negative.

But either way it sounds like you will believe in god right? I just think its funny that most theists tend to want to believe we are alone. You just happen to be an anomaly when you said intelligent life elsewhere would prove god. That's new. What most Christians say is that life somewhere else won't change their faith because the bible and Jesus were for earth only. That's our story. Has nothing to do with the rest of the universe. LOL. But didn't the bible (old or new) tell us we were alone?

God Favors planet Earth over all other stars and planets. First we see that Earth was the first planet created by God [Genesis 1:1] says;”In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” God made the earth before He created the sun and moon or any of the stars [Genesis 1:16]. God’s dealings have always taken place here on earth or in Heaven. Second we see that according to the Bible, Earth is the only planet that God named. God never named any of the other planets, man has named all the other planets after false gods. Thirdly we see that Earth was created by God to be inhabited by man. God created it with a breathable atmosphere and just the right temperature so that man wouldnt freeze to death or die of too much heat. [Psalm 115:16] “The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.” The fourth point is that God didn’t create the other planets to be inhabited. The sun, moon, and all the stars in the universe were created by God soley for one purpose, and that purpose is not to be inhabited, but to give light on the earth, and for signs, seasons, days, and years [Genesis 1:14-18]. The last point is that the earth is destined to become the home of God’s Kingdom for all eternity [Daniel 2:44], [Revelation 21:1-3]. God, just like we saw his pattern has been, excludes all the other planets, and chooses Earth to be His dwelling place with men.

#032 Are We Alone In The Universe?

 

[Boss]

Of course it's speculation. But these are the questions we need to be able to answer in order to give you the answer you are looking for. You do want to find out if we are alone don't you? Well at least this guy Drake has thought it out.

You see, this is where I have a problem with you. From some odd reason, you seem to think YOUR speculations carry more weight or sophistication than MINE! You make the rather arrogant inference that YOUR guy has "thought it out" while my argument is nonsensical and all in my head. It's like you don't get that we're both practicing a faith-based belief in something that cannot be proved. In spite of all the evidence I've offered to support my suppositions, you waddle in with some total conjecture on probability as if that is proven scientific fact to refute my position.

He was telling how they weren't finding any suns with planets surrounding them and then another telescope in another country was the first to find one. Then they figured out what they were doing wrong. So they started finding lots of stars with suns surrounding them. Then they realized the easiest suns to find are the ones that circle their stars in just 4 days. But what they need to find is a star with a Jupiter. Jupiter protects Earth from meteors and asteroids. And now we have found lots of suns with Jupiters surrounding them. Surely there must be earth planets there too. We just don't know yet because they are so far away and all we see are dots.

Huh? You are really getting mixed up here... stars with suns surrounding them? Wtf? You mean stars (suns) with planets surrounding them? And I am terribly sorry but "surely there must be" is NOT a scientific conclusion any more valid than "surely there must be a flying spaghetti monster!"

You are right, we don't know, all we see are tiny dots. In fact, the closest place in our universe where intelligent life on another planet MIGHT be possible, is so far away we'll NEVER go there using conventional physics as we currently understand. Unless we unlock some secret of how to warp space-time or travel through a wormhole, we're never going to even reach the nearest star with a probe, much less a manned flight. It would take thousands of years to reach at our current level of technology. And there is far from any guarantee there would be anything there at all. In fact, it would be one helluva dice roll to discover intelligent life revolving around the very first nearest star we come to.

But my god how much more we know today because of people like me who believe there is life on other planets. If it were up to people like you we wouldn't even look. You are too negative.

The reason we KNOW anything is because we are INSPIRED creatures! We are driven by our intrinsic spiritual understanding of something greater than self. It's the thing that made us what we are today. It's the reason we were able to harness fire and invent the wheel. Understanding that aspect of who we are doesn't make me negative or mean that I don't want to look.

But either way it sounds like you will believe in god right? I just think its funny that most theists tend to want to believe we are alone. You just happen to be an anomaly when you said intelligent life elsewhere would prove god. That's new. What most Christians say is that life somewhere else won't change their faith because the bible and Jesus were for earth only. That's our story. Has nothing to do with the rest of the universe. LOL. But didn't the bible (old or new) tell us we were alone?

I don't have "blind faith" in anything! I've always been a person who needs to find evidence for what I believe is true. I've found evidence for spiritual nature in my everyday life experience. I know intrinsically there is a spiritual nature or energy force beyond the physical because I relate to it daily in my life and it benefits me greatly. If I tried to convince you there was no such thing as a cell phone, would you believe me? What if I told you that cell phones are just a figment of your imagination and not real? What if I presented some nutbag's theory that cell phones aren't real, even though you have one and use it daily? Are you ever likely to accept my viewpoint? Of course not, because you KNOW what you KNOW! I can talk until I am blue in the face... call you stupid... make fun of you... whatever.... you are STILL going to believe in cell phones because you benefit from them daily!

As for intelligent life, I presented my argument in the OP. When I evaluate the myriad of potentials and possibilities, I find it incredible that intelligent life exists HERE! It took millions of years and thousands of events happening, some of them natural and some unexplained as of yet. Then it took some absolute luck (or divine intervention). And still, we cannot answer the most basic fundamental question of how life originated.

I'm going to dismiss the remainder of your rant against Biblical dogma because this isn't a religious argument.

 

[sealybobo]

Of course it's speculation. But these are the questions we need to be able to answer in order to give you the answer you are looking for. You do want to find out if we are alone don't you? Well at least this guy Drake has thought it out.

You see, this is where I have a problem with you. From some odd reason, you seem to think YOUR speculations carry more weight or sophistication than MINE! You make the rather arrogant inference that YOUR guy has "thought it out" while my argument is nonsensical and all in my head. It's like you don't get that we're both practicing a faith-based belief in something that cannot be proved. In spite of all the evidence I've offered to support my suppositions, you waddle in with some total conjecture on probability as if that is proven scientific fact to refute my position.

He was telling how they weren't finding any suns with planets surrounding them and then another telescope in another country was the first to find one. Then they figured out what they were doing wrong. So they started finding lots of stars with suns surrounding them. Then they realized the easiest suns to find are the ones that circle their stars in just 4 days. But what they need to find is a star with a Jupiter. Jupiter protects Earth from meteors and asteroids. And now we have found lots of suns with Jupiters surrounding them. Surely there must be earth planets there too. We just don't know yet because they are so far away and all we see are dots.

Huh? You are really getting mixed up here... stars with suns surrounding them? Wtf? You mean stars (suns) with planets surrounding them? And I am terribly sorry but "surely there must be" is NOT a scientific conclusion any more valid than "surely there must be a flying spaghetti monster!"

You are right, we don't know, all we see are tiny dots. In fact, the closest place in our universe where intelligent life on another planet MIGHT be possible, is so far away we'll NEVER go there using conventional physics as we currently understand. Unless we unlock some secret of how to warp space-time or travel through a wormhole, we're never going to even reach the nearest star with a probe, much less a manned flight. It would take thousands of years to reach at our current level of technology. And there is far from any guarantee there would be anything there at all. In fact, it would be one helluva dice roll to discover intelligent life revolving around the very first nearest star we come to.

But my god how much more we know today because of people like me who believe there is life on other planets. If it were up to people like you we wouldn't even look. You are too negative.

The reason we KNOW anything is because we are INSPIRED creatures! We are driven by our intrinsic spiritual understanding of something greater than self. It's the thing that made us what we are today. It's the reason we were able to harness fire and invent the wheel. Understanding that aspect of who we are doesn't make me negative or mean that I don't want to look.

But either way it sounds like you will believe in god right? I just think its funny that most theists tend to want to believe we are alone. You just happen to be an anomaly when you said intelligent life elsewhere would prove god. That's new. What most Christians say is that life somewhere else won't change their faith because the bible and Jesus were for earth only. That's our story. Has nothing to do with the rest of the universe. LOL. But didn't the bible (old or new) tell us we were alone?

I don't have "blind faith" in anything! I've always been a person who needs to find evidence for what I believe is true. I've found evidence for spiritual nature in my everyday life experience. I know intrinsically there is a spiritual nature or energy force beyond the physical because I relate to it daily in my life and it benefits me greatly. If I tried to convince you there was no such thing as a cell phone, would you believe me? What if I told you that cell phones are just a figment of your imagination and not real? What if I presented some nutbag's theory that cell phones aren't real, even though you have one and use it daily? Are you ever likely to accept my viewpoint? Of course not, because you KNOW what you KNOW! I can talk until I am blue in the face... call you stupid... make fun of you... whatever.... you are STILL going to believe in cell phones because you benefit from them daily!

As for intelligent life, I presented my argument in the OP. When I evaluate the myriad of potentials and possibilities, I find it incredible that intelligent life exists HERE! It took millions of years and thousands of events happening, some of them natural and some unexplained as of yet. Then it took some absolute luck (or divine intervention). And still, we cannot answer the most basic fundamental question of how life originated.

I'm going to dismiss the remainder of your rant against Biblical dogma because this isn't a religious argument.

Evolution is a scientific theory. Your FAITH in God is not scientific or all.

 

[Boss]

Evolution is a scientific theory. Your FAITH in God is not scientific or all.

Evolution does not explain origin of life, sorry!

 

[sealybobo]

Evolution is a scientific theory. Your FAITH in God is not scientific or all.

Evolution does not explain origin of life, sorry!

Scientists think life starting on a new planet is common. Carbons cling then multiply. Rocks amino acids mold . You need water though. Too bad we probably will die before we discover life elsewhere

 

[RWS]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

The chances that physics can create life are 100% true. Here we are... The chances that an imaginary "god" can create life are 0% true. As many gods have existed throughout religious history, all created by man, and all different.

Man cannot create a god that creates man. That's the paradox of religion when faced with reality.

 

[sealybobo]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

The chances that physics can create life are 100% true. Here we are... The chances that an imaginary "god" can create life are 0% true. As many gods have existed throughout religious history, all created by man, and all different.

Man cannot create a god that creates man. That's the paradox of religion when faced with reality.

Man did create god. I wonder what’s beyond our observable universe. All the crazy hypotheses we come up with like other universes wasn’t taken into account when the creation stories were told. This is why I don’t like religions. They just made up their own creation stories.

 

[hobelim]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

The chances that physics can create life are 100% true. Here we are... The chances that an imaginary "god" can create life are 0% true. As many gods have existed throughout religious history, all created by man, and all different.

Man cannot create a god that creates man. That's the paradox of religion when faced with reality.

Yes, and the only way to resolve that paradox is to understand that the creation of man is not a story about the beginning of life on earth or the creation of the solar system but a story about a higher realm of intelligences teaching a gullible numbskull a better way of life only to for him to screw it up by falling for the deceptions of a religious deceiver portrayed as a talking serpent.

The creation of heaven and earth was the creation of the knowledge of a lower and higher realm of existence. The firmament of the earth is the law of the jungle. The firmament of heaven is divine law. The gulf that separates the two realms is as great as the gulf that separates the living from the dead.

simple as that.

Before the light was given, only a few thousand years ago, there was only the wilderness.

The world was without shape and void (lawless), and darkness (superstition) covered the face of the deep.

 

[G.T.]

I already did explain how we naturally obtained it and this fact isn't false just because no other animal, THAT WE KNOW OF, has it, YET.

For all you know Dolphins have it.

And if they did have it you'd say that was proof of god. Wouldn't you? So either way you say this is proof of god? You're a joke.

You keep making thinking mistakes. LOTS OF THEM. You keep concluding things that aren't even true. False positives in every post you make.

Silly boob, I am very careful not to state things as absolute certainties because I believe all things are possible. All I can rationalize has to be based on observable data and information. I can't accept that human spirituality is the natural result of imagination or smart brains when we don't see the evidence in other upper primates and mammals. And if dolphins also realize some spiritual force beyond physical nature, it would seem to refute the idea that this is simply something humans made up from imagination.

I'm not the one making the thinking mistakes here, you are. I'm pointing them out to you as we go and demonstrating how your arguments are constantly contradicting previous arguments as well as your Darwinist theories. That's apparently driving you nuts because Neal DeIdiot Tyson told you something else and you didn't have the capacity of intellectual thought to challenge a thing he said, you just gulped it down like the nit-wit brainless twerp you are.

Now, I have NEVER said that anything is "proof of God." IF I had "proof of God" we wouldn't be having this conversation. God is not provable unless you believe in spiritual nature and prove God to yourself.

Someone said, well how do we know which God is true? Well, why can't ALL Gods be true and at the very same time, NO Gods be true? ...Oh, but that doesn't make logical sense... but it doesn't have to. We know through quantum mechanics that numerous potentials can simultaneously exist. If this is true in the quantum physical universe, then it can certainly be true in spiritual nature.

The Drake Equation is an attempt to encapsulate all the variables that would be relevant to establishing the number of intelligent civilizations that existed in the Milky Way galaxy and which were broadcasting radio signals at this particular point in time. The Drake Equation is composed of seven terms.

Everything here is a SPECULATION. You have NO way of knowing ANY of this stuff with ANY degree of certainty. It's basically a wild guess.

I don't even understand what a "broadcasting civilization" is.... we've not gotten radio signals from ANYWHERE! That's total Science Fiction! Did this come from some movie you watched?

Speculating other intelligent life in the universe isnt THAT wild. We havent even ruled it out for our own back yard, which is 1 pebble of sand on the worlds largest beach.

Id say, in terms of planets within what we speculate (and could be wrong) is the goldilocks zone.....its 1 outta 1. Earth.

You cannot really calculate the probability of intelligent life having formed on earth as being "rare," that's narrow minded and shows a lack of appreciation for the vastness and age of the universe. When the size is larger than a human brain can compute, near infinite things are possible and its more likely happened a lot ~ being the elements are what made for it in the first place.

 

[DOTR]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

I think it is pretty obvious that life is not only rare..it is unique. We could even call it "miraculous".

 

[hobelim]

I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.

I think it is pretty obvious that life is not only rare..it is unique. We could even call it "miraculous".

unique? rare? haven't you noticed that the earth is teeming with diverse forms of life?

 

[Boss]

Evolution is a scientific theory. Your FAITH in God is not scientific or all.

Evolution does not explain origin of life, sorry!

Scientists think life starting on a new planet is common. Carbons cling then multiply. Rocks amino acids mold . You need water though. Too bad we probably will die before we discover life elsewhere

That's a faith-based speculation that has NEVER been proven with science. You cannot replicate the process in the most sophisticated lab environment with all the genetic tools and materials at your disposal. Carbon doesn't simply cling and multiply, mold doesn't spontaneously generate. That's a debunked theory from the mid 1800s disproved by Biogenesis.

 

[Boss]

unique? rare? haven't you noticed that the earth is teeming with diverse forms of life?

How did it originate?

 

[G.T.]

unique? rare? haven't you noticed that the earth is teeming with diverse forms of life?

How did it originate?

Speculative ~ but 1 for certain is that the elements that exist everywhere in the Universe made it possible over just millions of years, and the Universe is 14 BILLION years old.