Alfie Evans...what happens when the left dehumanizes children

[The2ndAmendment]

Nothing to do with slippery slopes (******) - it's about historical accuracy.

Here's some historical accuracy:

Euthanasia Program

In the spring and summer months of 1939, a number of planners began to organize a secret killing operation targeting disabled children. They were led by Philipp Bouhler, the director of Hitler's private chancellery, and Karl Brandt, Hitler's attending physician.

On August 18, 1939, the Reich Ministry of the Interior circulated a decree requiring all physicians, nurses, and midwives to report newborn infants and children under the age of three who showed signs of severe mental or physical disability.

Beginning in October 1939, public health authorities began to encourage parents of children with disabilities to admit their young children to one of a number of specially designated pediatric clinics throughout Germany and Austria. In reality, the clinics were children's killing wards. There, specially recruited medical staff murdered their young charges by lethal overdoses of medication or by starvation.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I just gave you historical accuracy. What happened?

 

[frigidweirdo]

To use Nazi Germany as a comparison is the height of ignorance.

Really, what's the difference between the UK court rulings and the Nazi policies? Both deemed the child a financial liability and unproductive member of society and euthanized them.

HUGE differences. Do you really need me to go into it? If so, I will.

Please do.

The Nazi's slaughtered some 2/3 of Europe's Jewish population.

Jews and many others were herded into concentration camps where they were effectively put to death in gas chambers, starved, or forced into inhumane "medical" experiments.

They were all deemed subhuman.

That's the short of it.

Alfie Evans, the child you are using to score political points has been gravely ill for most of his young life. Doctors, specialists and his parents have been unable to halt the progressive brain damage. MRI's a year earlier revealed 70% of his brain destroyed. More recent MRI's revealed further destruction. He was kept alive on life support and his doctors - medical specialists noted no brain activity between seizures.

His parents, understandably, do not want to accept that there is nothing that can be done for their child. British law states that in a conflict like this the courts provide an advocate that looks out for the child's best interests (and no they don't always side with the medical profession). They determined that it was time to cut off life support. Agree or disagree - brain damage of this type - which despite the best efforts of the medical profession - does not regenerate. This is hardly similar to the Nazi's and by making that claim you are slapping the real victims in the face.

This is how it always begins with progressives...with your best interests at heart.

There's no such thing as a "slippery slope fallacy" with you fuckers. You slide down the slope as fast as you can.

We only have to look to Europe to see where you progs will lead us 10 years from now.

In the US the right wing want private healthcare.

Many doctors are on the take, many hospitals are on the take, the insurance companies are on the take, and at the end of the day the rich get excellent healthcare and the poor get shitty healthcare.

The US federal govt spends MORE money per capita on healthcare than the UK govt does.

The Tories in the UK claim the UK is spending TOO MUCH on healthcare and has cut back massively in the past 8 years.

1) If the right wing would spend enough money on healthcare in the UK then the number of babies surviving child birth and their early years would rise.

Child mortality in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

"There were 2,578 infant deaths (deaths under 1 year) in England and Wales in 2015, compared with 2,517 in 2014 and 6,141 in 1985."

It took the Tories years in power to see infant mortality rates rise again, the first time since 2006, after Labour had had to take the ashes of the NHS and turn it into a proper healthcare service after 18 years of Tory government.

2) The UK infant mortality rate is LOWER than the US infant mortality rate.

3) Infant mortality is lowest in states which seem to edge more towards the extreme. ie, the Deep South

It's not an exclusive "Republican v. Democrat" thing, because not all Republicans are interested in ******* everyone over, and not all Democrats are interested in making an amazing service, but it would seem that Louisiana, which has the highest murder rate, one of the lowest education ratings, also has one of highest infant mortality rates.


It's like playing golf. You're never going to get a hole in one every time, and if you play for a hole in one every time, you'll lose. You try and get as close to the hole as possible to give yourself an advantage.

The UK govt sometimes does this. The left wing govt, when in power, does this far more than the right wing govt.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The thread is moot now, it's in a dead sub forum.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The thread is moot now, it's in a dead sub forum.

So you can only respond if it's in a part of the forum you like?

 

[JoeB131]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

someone laughed an abortion joke? Never mind.

Here's the major difference between Professor Hawking and Alfie Evans.

Professor Hawking wasn't afflicted with ALS until he was an adult. He retained his congative functions all the way to the end of his life.

Alfie was brain dead. 70% of his brain was damaged. He was going to be a sleeping baby for his entire life, kept alive by machines.

Also, Pope Francis (Same Superstitious Bullshit, Shiny New Package) can't grant anyone Italian citizenship. The Vatican isn't even part of Italy, officially.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

In other words, the UK's big left government simply weighs the life of a citizen as a financial asset or liability, and determined that Alfie was a liability of severe negative value with conceivable chance of being productive in the future.

But hey, as liberal comedian Michelle Wolf would jest: If you hillbillies are too stupid to post-abort your child then we'll do it for you!

Pope, others mourn death of British toddler Alfie Evans
Alfie Evans, British toddler at center of legal battle, has died
Alfie Evans’ chaplain recalled from Alder Hey
Terminally-ill British boy becomes rallying point for US conservatives

Erick Erickson, a leading conservative activist and commentator, tweeted: “The British press is not a free press or a moral press. If it were, it’d be making a really big deal about the UK killing Alfie Evans.”

In the United Kingdom, police issued warnings after staffers at the hospital where Evans is being treated have received “unprecedented personal abuse” according its chair, Sir David Henshaw.

Other American conservatives struck even more ardent notes. The former Republican congressman and radio host Joe Walsh tweeted: “Why does an American need an AR-15?’ To make sure what’s happening to #AlfieEvans never happens here. That’s why.”

You know why the UK posted ARMED police around Alfie, because they knew their citizenry was disarmed and would not be able to break through phalanx of armed officers.

Joe Walsh is correct. In any conservative part of the US (most of the US geographically) the hospital would have been stormed by armed citizens and the child would have been transported to the safety of the Vatican for health care.


How long before they apply this ruling all citizens and not just post-birth abortion age classified children?

Oh no the police and elite are scared!
Alfie Evans: police issue warning over online abuse of medical staff

and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

I think that you must be demented.

If the hospital was treating Alfie on an economic basis then surely they would have jumped at the chance of shipping him of to Italy.

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

In other words, the UK's big left government simply weighs the life of a citizen as a financial asset or liability, and determined that Alfie was a liability of severe negative value with conceivable chance of being productive in the future.

But hey, as liberal comedian Michelle Wolf would jest: If you hillbillies are too stupid to post-abort your child then we'll do it for you!

Pope, others mourn death of British toddler Alfie Evans
Alfie Evans, British toddler at center of legal battle, has died
Alfie Evans’ chaplain recalled from Alder Hey
Terminally-ill British boy becomes rallying point for US conservatives

Erick Erickson, a leading conservative activist and commentator, tweeted: “The British press is not a free press or a moral press. If it were, it’d be making a really big deal about the UK killing Alfie Evans.”

In the United Kingdom, police issued warnings after staffers at the hospital where Evans is being treated have received “unprecedented personal abuse” according its chair, Sir David Henshaw.

Other American conservatives struck even more ardent notes. The former Republican congressman and radio host Joe Walsh tweeted: “Why does an American need an AR-15?’ To make sure what’s happening to #AlfieEvans never happens here. That’s why.”

You know why the UK posted ARMED police around Alfie, because they knew their citizenry was disarmed and would not be able to break through phalanx of armed officers.

Joe Walsh is correct. In any conservative part of the US (most of the US geographically) the hospital would have been stormed by armed citizens and the child would have been transported to the safety of the Vatican for health care.


How long before they apply this ruling all citizens and not just post-birth abortion age classified children?

Oh no the police and elite are scared!
Alfie Evans: police issue warning over online abuse of medical staff

and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

I think that you must be demented.

If the hospital was treating Alfie on an economic basis then surely they would have jumped at the chance of shipping him of to Italy.

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

 

[Coyote]

Ye

Nothing to do with slippery slopes (******) - it's about historical accuracy.

Here's some historical accuracy:

Euthanasia Program

In the spring and summer months of 1939, a number of planners began to organize a secret killing operation targeting disabled children. They were led by Philipp Bouhler, the director of Hitler's private chancellery, and Karl Brandt, Hitler's attending physician.

On August 18, 1939, the Reich Ministry of the Interior circulated a decree requiring all physicians, nurses, and midwives to report newborn infants and children under the age of three who showed signs of severe mental or physical disability.

Beginning in October 1939, public health authorities began to encourage parents of children with disabilities to admit their young children to one of a number of specially designated pediatric clinics throughout Germany and Austria. In reality, the clinics were children's killing wards. There, specially recruited medical staff murdered their young charges by lethal overdoses of medication or by starvation.

They werent leftists.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

In other words, the UK's big left government simply weighs the life of a citizen as a financial asset or liability, and determined that Alfie was a liability of severe negative value with conceivable chance of being productive in the future.

But hey, as liberal comedian Michelle Wolf would jest: If you hillbillies are too stupid to post-abort your child then we'll do it for you!

Pope, others mourn death of British toddler Alfie Evans
Alfie Evans, British toddler at center of legal battle, has died
Alfie Evans’ chaplain recalled from Alder Hey
Terminally-ill British boy becomes rallying point for US conservatives

Erick Erickson, a leading conservative activist and commentator, tweeted: “The British press is not a free press or a moral press. If it were, it’d be making a really big deal about the UK killing Alfie Evans.”

In the United Kingdom, police issued warnings after staffers at the hospital where Evans is being treated have received “unprecedented personal abuse” according its chair, Sir David Henshaw.

Other American conservatives struck even more ardent notes. The former Republican congressman and radio host Joe Walsh tweeted: “Why does an American need an AR-15?’ To make sure what’s happening to #AlfieEvans never happens here. That’s why.”

You know why the UK posted ARMED police around Alfie, because they knew their citizenry was disarmed and would not be able to break through phalanx of armed officers.

Joe Walsh is correct. In any conservative part of the US (most of the US geographically) the hospital would have been stormed by armed citizens and the child would have been transported to the safety of the Vatican for health care.


How long before they apply this ruling all citizens and not just post-birth abortion age classified children?

Oh no the police and elite are scared!
Alfie Evans: police issue warning over online abuse of medical staff

and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

I think that you must be demented.

If the hospital was treating Alfie on an economic basis then surely they would have jumped at the chance of shipping him of to Italy.

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

In other words, the UK's big left government simply weighs the life of a citizen as a financial asset or liability, and determined that Alfie was a liability of severe negative value with conceivable chance of being productive in the future.

But hey, as liberal comedian Michelle Wolf would jest: If you hillbillies are too stupid to post-abort your child then we'll do it for you!

Pope, others mourn death of British toddler Alfie Evans
Alfie Evans, British toddler at center of legal battle, has died
Alfie Evans’ chaplain recalled from Alder Hey
Terminally-ill British boy becomes rallying point for US conservatives

Erick Erickson, a leading conservative activist and commentator, tweeted: “The British press is not a free press or a moral press. If it were, it’d be making a really big deal about the UK killing Alfie Evans.”

In the United Kingdom, police issued warnings after staffers at the hospital where Evans is being treated have received “unprecedented personal abuse” according its chair, Sir David Henshaw.

Other American conservatives struck even more ardent notes. The former Republican congressman and radio host Joe Walsh tweeted: “Why does an American need an AR-15?’ To make sure what’s happening to #AlfieEvans never happens here. That’s why.”

You know why the UK posted ARMED police around Alfie, because they knew their citizenry was disarmed and would not be able to break through phalanx of armed officers.

Joe Walsh is correct. In any conservative part of the US (most of the US geographically) the hospital would have been stormed by armed citizens and the child would have been transported to the safety of the Vatican for health care.


How long before they apply this ruling all citizens and not just post-birth abortion age classified children?

Oh no the police and elite are scared!
Alfie Evans: police issue warning over online abuse of medical staff

and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

I think that you must be demented.

If the hospital was treating Alfie on an economic basis then surely they would have jumped at the chance of shipping him of to Italy.

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

How did you come to subscribe to this doctrine?

"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life."
Leon Trotsky

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Btw, before you lbibes that laugh at jokes about aborted babies attempt to hijack th thread, let it be known that Pope Francis granted the child Italian citizenship so the child could be treated outside the UK in retaliation to the UK court rulings that Alfie was their ward and property (no longer belonged to the parents) and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

In other words, the UK's big left government simply weighs the life of a citizen as a financial asset or liability, and determined that Alfie was a liability of severe negative value with conceivable chance of being productive in the future.

But hey, as liberal comedian Michelle Wolf would jest: If you hillbillies are too stupid to post-abort your child then we'll do it for you!

Pope, others mourn death of British toddler Alfie Evans
Alfie Evans, British toddler at center of legal battle, has died
Alfie Evans’ chaplain recalled from Alder Hey
Terminally-ill British boy becomes rallying point for US conservatives

Erick Erickson, a leading conservative activist and commentator, tweeted: “The British press is not a free press or a moral press. If it were, it’d be making a really big deal about the UK killing Alfie Evans.”

In the United Kingdom, police issued warnings after staffers at the hospital where Evans is being treated have received “unprecedented personal abuse” according its chair, Sir David Henshaw.

Other American conservatives struck even more ardent notes. The former Republican congressman and radio host Joe Walsh tweeted: “Why does an American need an AR-15?’ To make sure what’s happening to #AlfieEvans never happens here. That’s why.”

You know why the UK posted ARMED police around Alfie, because they knew their citizenry was disarmed and would not be able to break through phalanx of armed officers.

Joe Walsh is correct. In any conservative part of the US (most of the US geographically) the hospital would have been stormed by armed citizens and the child would have been transported to the safety of the Vatican for health care.


How long before they apply this ruling all citizens and not just post-birth abortion age classified children?

Oh no the police and elite are scared!
Alfie Evans: police issue warning over online abuse of medical staff

and was too expensive to maintain for the lack of economic return that Alfie would provide (zero).

I think that you must be demented.

If the hospital was treating Alfie on an economic basis then surely they would have jumped at the chance of shipping him of to Italy.

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

How did you come to subscribe to this doctrine?

"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life."
Leon Trotsky

Why do you assume that I do ?

Please explain how keeping him in Alder Hay was more cost effective than shipping him to Rome at someone elses expense ?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

You're all still posting in this dead-end sub-forum? I'm only here because I got an alert in my inbox. You're the only three people left watching the thread while you argue.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You're all still posting in this dead-end sub-forum? I'm only here because I got an alert in my inbox. You're the only three people left watching the thread while you argue.

You cant answer my question can you ?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

You're all still posting in this dead-end sub-forum? I'm only here because I got an alert in my inbox. You're the only three people left watching the thread while you argue.

You cant answer my question can you ?

Count how many responses this thrad has gotten since it was moved there and count the variety of the the posters that did post.

Again, I'm only here because an alert went off. I'm going to /unwatch the thread. I don't argue on these forums to convince a paid/hired Soros troll, since that can't be done. I argue in the hopes that for every 100-1000 posts I make, at least one person in real life, who is reading/viewing, will have a change of mind.

Farewell and enjoy arguing in this dead place.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You're all still posting in this dead-end sub-forum? I'm only here because I got an alert in my inbox. You're the only three people left watching the thread while you argue.

You cant answer my question can you ?

Count how many responses this thrad has gotten since it was moved there and count the variety of the the posters that did post.

Again, I'm only here because an alert went off. I'm going to /unwatch the thread. I don't argue on these forums to convince a paid/hired Soros troll, since that can't be done. I argue in the hopes that for every 100-1000 posts I make, at least one person in real life, who is reading/viewing, will have a change of mind.

Farewell and enjoy arguing in this dead place.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Don't ignore it libbies, embrace your legacy.

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/cambodia-killing-fields.jpg

Cuz liberal media:

Where was your God to save this child?

The Pope attempted to bring him to the Vatican, the courts refused.

I thought God was everywhere?

The Lord is indeed everywhere.

Look outside and you'll see the signs of life everywhere, from the dandelion seeds blowing in the wind to the newly hatched fowls that hide beneath their mothers wings.

And I see death also....it's all part of the plan, man...

Which, amazingly enough, does not make it okay for us to kill people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

the only ones dehumanizing children are NRA hacks who think there should be AR-15's all over the place and who couldn't give a flying about dead kids.

No, because giving veterans jobs as armed security would be too terrible a solution like our politicans who have armed security to deter gunmen.

Veterans Commit Mass Shootings At An Alarming Rate. Why?

They also tend to be 90%+ male and white.

Anything else to say?

Yes, they don't have school shootings in countries with strong gun control. Mass shootings are rare there too.

No just bombings, stabbing and vehicular mass assaults.

Yes, but you die with a sense of moral superiority and pride when you're stabbed or blown up, rather than being shot with an "eeeeevil" gun.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Pope attempted to bring him to the Vatican, the courts refused.

I thought God was everywhere?

The Lord is indeed everywhere.

Look outside and you'll see the signs of life everywhere, from the dandelion seeds blowing in the wind to the newly hatched fowls that hide beneath their mothers wings.

And I see death also....it's all part of the plan, man...

You're lack of gratitude for creation is showing. Perhaps you should give thanks (thanksgiving) for the self repairing and self replicating machine that used arcane and complicated DNA instructions to assemble itself from scratch to Creator who designed it.

It's just like the old timers used to say in situations like this, "It's God's will",, and all the praying and gnashing of teeth along with the cursing changes nothing because it is out of any humans control..

Interesting how you don't take that "God's will" approach to providing/not providing medical care when it comes to state-controlled healthcare questions.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Isn't it dehumanizing to use a terminally ill child to score political points?

Isn't it dehumanizing to dismiss concern about terminally ill children being left to die against their parents' wishes as "scoring political points"?