AGW: So What?

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Let us suppose that human activity is exacerbating the "greenhouse effect" and increasing the amount of surface-temperature warming by some percentage. (I refer to this phenomenon as "AGW," short for anthropogenic global warming). As a result, global average temperatures will continue to rise, the oceans will rise by a few feet, blah, blah, blah. There will be some positive results - longer growing seasons in Canada and Siberia, for example, but overall, the results will be, shall we say, "bad."

Let us also suppose that the biggest contributors to AGW are coal burned in electric power plants and motor fuels burned in cars, trucks, planes, trains, and industrial & farm equipment.

So let's look at the current situation and known trends around the globe today.

We know that developing countries, having collectively more than half of the world's population, are keen to "come into the 21st century," which is to say, they want reliable electric power, air conditioning, computers, cars, reliable mass transit, and so forth.

So they are building electric power plants constantly, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. And these power plants will essentially all be powered by the cheapest available fuel: coal. (Much of that coal will come, thankfully, from exotic places like West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania).

And they are making and buying cars, trucks, buses, trains, planes, etc., as quickly as they can. All gas or diesel-powered.

We also have the forward-thinking countries like Germany and Japan, both significant users of electric power, who have decided to shun nuclear power to the extent they are able, and replace the lost generating capacity with, mainly, COAL. Oh, the Germans are building windmills and solar arrays with reckless abandon, but they are smart bastards, those Germans are, and they realize that baseload generation must done by burning fossil fuels. (And the Russians are, shall we say, not very dependable in offering natural gas - also a fossil fuel, but not as significant a generator of CO2).

I use Germany and Japan as examples, but the rest of the developed world is also turning away, generally, from Nuclear power and will be building their future electric generating plants to burn carbon, in one form or another.

Parenthetically, I have not mentioned Hydro, but mainly it is true to say that most of the better opportunities for large-scale Hydro have been harnessed already. And some are actually being demolished in favor of fish.

And in the face of these realities, we have a President who is determined to slay Coal, as a fuel for electric power generation in this country, in the name of - what? - combating AGW? Are you kidding me?

We could close down every coal-fired plant in the U.S. tomorrow, and the global impact on CO2 generation would barely be measurable, let alone enough to reverse the trend, or even slow it down.

But of course we are not going to shut down our coal-fired plants. What will happen is that the out-of-control EPA will simply strangle the coal industry to the point where it is no longer economically sane to build another coal-fired plant, thus increasing Americans' electricity bills pointlessly for the next several generations. Thank God for "FRACKING," eh?

Our Beloved President likes to bring up the phenomenon of "Global Warming Deniers" in order to ridicule anyone who disagrees with his stupid energy policies. He is fond of making this point on college campuses, where only a small fraction of the audience has ever actually paid an electricity bill, and where the newly-minted grads are keen to find even more people they can look down their educated-but-ignorant noses at (i.e., "Deniers").

I, for one, fervently believe in AGW. And I also believe that it is pointless to shoot ourselves in the foot, figuratively speaking, in a futile campaign to stop it. And I also believe that Mankind is smart enough to figure out ways of coping with warming, one way or another, after I'm dead and long forgotten. One might note that in the Italian City of Venice, they have constructed sea walls to protect the city when the sea levels are higher than usual. Imagine that. Using technology to cope with Mother Nature. Could we do the same for Manhattan? Boston?

It even creates JOBS, by golly. REAL jobs, not government regulator jobs.

Manifestly, this is a distinction that Our Beloved President cannot fathom.
 
Hurricanes don't hit Venice. So no, we can't make most cities like Venice, not at a realistic price.

We also can't give people the ability to survive when wet bulb temps reach 95F. Portions of India are getting close to the temperature death zone where everyone would die. Certain parts of the globe will literally become uninhabitable for humans, due to heat. They can't all move into the air conditioning, or be bio-engineered to withstand heatstroke.

And the coal industry died years ago. It's at 25% of its former size. That had nothing to do with Obama. Coal is an insignificant economic factor in the USA.

Basically, your confidence in technology has a major blind spot, in that you have confidence in everything except green energy. Those of us with a more consistent attitude understand the problem is solvable, and that solving will cost far less than ignoring it. Real world practicality and common sense, those things that have always defined liberals and mystified conservatives, would say that we should be solving the problem.
 
Hurricanes don't hit Venice. So no, we can't make most cities like Venice, not at a realistic price.

We also can't give people the ability to survive when wet bulb temps reach 95F. Portions of India are getting close to the temperature death zone where everyone would die. Certain parts of the globe will literally become uninhabitable for humans, due to heat. They can't all move into the air conditioning, or be bio-engineered to withstand heatstroke.

And the coal industry died years ago. It's at 25% of its former size. That had nothing to do with Obama. Coal is an insignificant economic factor in the USA.

Basically, your confidence in technology has a major blind spot, in that you have confidence in everything except green energy. Those of us with a more consistent attitude understand the problem is solvable, and that solving will cost far less than ignoring it. Real world practicality and common sense, those things that have always defined liberals and mystified conservatives, would say that we should be solving the problem.

Are these the same common sense liberals that are offended by the term "redskin" ? :lol:
 
Are these the same common sense liberals that are offended by the term "redskin" ?

Nice deflection. Oh wait, no. Lame deflection.

By the way, 30 million Bengalis are going to need to move. Will you be volunteering to share your home with a Bengali family? I just figure if people are going to proudly announce that they know they're causing the problem, they should bear some responsibility for doing so.
 
Are these the same common sense liberals that are offended by the term "redskin" ?

Nice deflection. Oh wait, no. Lame deflection.

By the way, 30 million Bengalis are going to need to move. Will you be volunteering to share your home with a Bengali family? I just figure if people are going to proudly announce that they know they're causing the problem, they should bear some responsibility for doing so.

They have to move WHEN? And this is because of Global average change of HOW MUCH?
 
By the end of the century, due to sea level rising two meters.

I gotta get me this Gaian Calendar you are using.. Must be the last Meter of that rise is a gift from Gaia in 2099 --- all at once. Otherwise, you'd have to give the year when sea level rise goes from 3mm/yr to 20+mm/yr.. Or when the American school system gets so bad, that nobody can do simple math anymore..
 
In response to the OP:

If you review the last 3 IPCC assessment reports and pay attention to the sections on "Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability" you will find multi-faceted, scholarly analyses on the costs and challenges in reducing our carbon emissions versus simply accommodating the changes coming.

Fifth Assessment Report - Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability

Like almost everything in life, the earlier you get started, the easier and the cheaper and the more successful is your outcome likely to be. Ignoring a problem because you think we can easily deal with the consequences is the basest of stupidities and the height of reckless irresponsibility.
 
And the coal industry died years ago. It's at 25% of its former size. That had nothing to do with Obama. Coal is an insignificant economic factor in the USA.

.


RealClearEnergy - Coal Will Be King by 2030


Coal exports to Europe = booming business U.S. Coal Companies Ride Exports To Booming Business » News » OPB


COAL : fastest growing fossil fuel https://uk.news.yahoo.com/filth-fury-coal-remains-fastest-growing-fossil-fuel-091253229.html#tbfwv30





Coal exports booming US emissions decline, but coal exports on the rise



:fu:What a fucking dumbass!!!:fu:




facts > speculation
 
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Hurricanes don't hit Venice. So no, we can't make most cities like Venice, not at a realistic price.

We also can't give people the ability to survive when wet bulb temps reach 95F. Portions of India are getting close to the temperature death zone where everyone would die. Certain parts of the globe will literally become uninhabitable for humans, due to heat. They can't all move into the air conditioning, or be bio-engineered to withstand heatstroke.

And the coal industry died years ago. It's at 25% of its former size. That had nothing to do with Obama. Coal is an insignificant economic factor in the USA.

Basically, your confidence in technology has a major blind spot, in that you have confidence in everything except green energy. Those of us with a more consistent attitude understand the problem is solvable, and that solving will cost far less than ignoring it. Real world practicality and common sense, those things that have always defined liberals and mystified conservatives, would say that we should be solving the problem.
certain parts of the globe have been too hot for humans long before the invention of the internal combustion engine

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
Mamooth, I'll ignore your comment about the coal industry; it is so stupid an uninformed that you might as well have headed your posting with an Idiot Warning.

My point is that NOTHING done in the U.S. to "fight" coal-powered electricity generation will have any impact whatsoever in global temperatures. Your "response" does not address this fact. While pretending to be a rebuttal, it is merely a couple of irrelevant assertions.

As for "green energy" (speaking of blind spots), it cannot be used for base-load generation, and despite the billions already spent it is not yet economically viable; it is still just a footnote in the big picture.

Even so, I'm all for exploiting the hell out of sun, wind, rain, hydro, tidal, and anything else we can dream up that does not generate carbon emissions. I'm also for anything we can do to use power more wisely and efficiently. But crippling the American coal power generating industry in the name of saving the planet is just stupid.
 
Mamooth, I'll ignore your comment about the coal industry; it is so stupid an uninformed that you might as well have headed your posting with an Idiot Warning.

In other words, you couldn't address it, so you're waving your hands around a lot.

Meanwhile, real data:

Coal and jobs in the United States - SourceWatch

USA Coal mining jobs, 1950: 488k
USA Coal mining jobs, 2006: 83k

Coal mining is about 0.1% of the jobs in the USA. It's just not significant. You can't cripple the US economy by reducing coal jobs, because there just aren't that many of them. Mechanization took care of that, replacing the workers with machines.

My point is that NOTHING done in the U.S. to "fight" coal-powered electricity generation will have any impact whatsoever in global temperatures.

An invalid point, so everything that follows from it is invalid.
 
Mamooth, I'll ignore your comment about the coal industry; it is so stupid an uninformed that you might as well have headed your posting with an Idiot Warning.

In other words, you couldn't address it, so you're waving your hands around a lot.

Meanwhile, real data:

Coal and jobs in the United States - SourceWatch

USA Coal mining jobs, 1950: 488k
USA Coal mining jobs, 2006: 83k

Coal mining is about 0.1% of the jobs in the USA. It's just not significant. You can't cripple the US economy by reducing coal jobs, because there just aren't that many of them. Mechanization took care of that, replacing the workers with machines.

My point is that NOTHING done in the U.S. to "fight" coal-powered electricity generation will have any impact whatsoever in global temperatures.

An invalid point, so everything that follows from it is invalid.






:lol::lol::lol: Talk about knowing nothing! I wonder why there are so many fewer jobs in the coal mining industry now:eusa_think: Could it be because they have developed machinery over the last 50 years that increase production while reducing the number of people needed underground? Could that possibly be the reason?

Nah, that couldn't be it. Oh wait..here's an image of ONE guy operating a machine that replaced about 100. Wow...technology.

You know admiral, for someone who claims to be a "nuclear watch officer" your technical knowledge sucks.

miner-on-his-mining-machine-in-west-virginia-across-the-state-878x598.jpg
 
Mamooth, I'll ignore your comment about the coal industry; it is so stupid an uninformed that you might as well have headed your posting with an Idiot Warning.

In other words, you couldn't address it, so you're waving your hands around a lot.

Meanwhile, real data:

Coal and jobs in the United States - SourceWatch

USA Coal mining jobs, 1950: 488k
USA Coal mining jobs, 2006: 83k

Coal mining is about 0.1% of the jobs in the USA. It's just not significant. You can't cripple the US economy by reducing coal jobs, because there just aren't that many of them. Mechanization took care of that, replacing the workers with machines.

My point is that NOTHING done in the U.S. to "fight" coal-powered electricity generation will have any impact whatsoever in global temperatures.

An invalid point, so everything that follows from it is invalid.

Leftists just never read the Capitalism Handbook and never even audited an economics class. The railroads and barge industries would be big losers since by weight, the movement of coal is a huge chunk of their business. Not to mention the manufacturers of Mining Equipment (as WW showed) or companies like Case and Caterpillar..

Pretty soon -- you'd be up to about 2%, counting the economic disasters in local communities that just board up their retails sales and service businesses.. Ought to be a safety course for handling random statistics..
 
Mamooth, I'll ignore your comment about the coal industry; it is so stupid an uninformed that you might as well have headed your posting with an Idiot Warning.

In other words, you couldn't address it, so you're waving your hands around a lot.

Meanwhile, real data:

Coal and jobs in the United States - SourceWatch

USA Coal mining jobs, 1950: 488k
USA Coal mining jobs, 2006: 83k

Coal mining is about 0.1% of the jobs in the USA. It's just not significant. You can't cripple the US economy by reducing coal jobs, because there just aren't that many of them. Mechanization took care of that, replacing the workers with machines.

My point is that NOTHING done in the U.S. to "fight" coal-powered electricity generation will have any impact whatsoever in global temperatures.

An invalid point, so everything that follows from it is invalid.

Just WOW!!! The rest has already been stated.
 
Mechanization took care of that, replacing the workers with machines.

Could it be because they have developed machinery over the last 50 years that increase production while reducing the number of people needed underground? Could that possibly be the reason?

Why yes, which would be why I specifically said so. See it up there?

Next time, try actually _reading_ what I write. If you start following that policy in general, you won't always end up looking so stupid.

You know admiral, for someone who claims to be a "nuclear watch officer" your technical knowledge sucks.

Yes, yes, we all know how you switch to vet-spitting whenever you get caught doing yet another of your famous faceplants. It's one of your more predictable traits.
 

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