Affordable Care Act saving taxpayer money at record pace

[rightwinger]

I have asked this question a few times, and no one has answered, perhaps you can explain. If single payer produces better results why do people from countries with single payer systems come here for health care?

Most don't, some choose to for elective procedures that they choose not to wait for

Sometimes you just have to get that boob job

The people that go to the Mayo clinic because it has the best medical treatment in the world get boob jobs? You really want to try to float that argument?

So, because we have a Mayo clinic that means all of our other healthcare issues are irrelevant?

STRAWMAN

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Most don't, some choose to for elective procedures that they choose not to wait for

Sometimes you just have to get that boob job

The people that go to the Mayo clinic because it has the best medical treatment in the world get boob jobs? You really want to try to float that argument?

So, because we have a Mayo clinic that means all of our other healthcare issues are irrelevant?

STRAWMAN

I asked why people from countries with single payer systems come here for medical care if those countries always have better health care than we do. you brought up boob jobs. How does that make the Mayo clinic a strawman? Are you so used to debating nincompoops you forgot how to mount a logical argument?

 

[Conservative]

Republicans oppose single payer which would immediately wipe out 300billion in wasteful health care spending without impacting health quality. WHy would they oppose that? Well because then insurrance companies wouldn't be able to get mega rich off of cancer patients

Single payer would immediately wipe out $300,000,000,000.00 in wasteful spending? How?

more like this...

 

[Bfgrn]

The people that go to the Mayo clinic because it has the best medical treatment in the world get boob jobs? You really want to try to float that argument?

So, because we have a Mayo clinic that means all of our other healthcare issues are irrelevant?

STRAWMAN

I asked why people from countries with single payer systems come here for medical care if those countries always have better health care than we do. you brought up boob jobs. How does that make the Mayo clinic a strawman? Are you so used to debating nincompoops you forgot how to mount a logical argument?

Maybe what you are parroting is mostly propaganda?

The Many Myths Of European Health Care - CBS News

 

[Star]

[QUOTEI have asked this question a few times, and no one has answered, perhaps you can explain. If single payer produces better results why do people from countries with single payer systems come here for health care?[/QUOTE]



I've heard of the occasional uber-rich person traveling to the US for some sort or other specialized medical care but the medical tourism trade is going the other direction-----but g'head, try to show me how I'm wrong about that. I think if you have any research skills at all, you'll find that there are many times more Americans going out of country for medical care than there are foreigners coming to the US for medical care.




United States


A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care;[80] the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).[81] The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care,[80] whereas the low costs for hospital stays and major/complex procedures at Western-accredited medical facilities abroad are cited as major motivators for American travelers.[81] Also, it has been noted that the decline in value of the U.S. dollar is offering additional incentive for foreign travel to the U.S., although cost differences between the US and many locations in Asia far outweigh[clarification needed] any currency fluctuations.

Several major medical centers and teaching hospitals offer international patient centers that cater to patients from foreign countries who seek medical treatment in the U.S.[82] Many of these organizations offer service coordinators to assist international patients with arrangements for medical care, accommodations, finances and transportation including air ambulance services.

Many locations in the US that offer medical care comparable in price to foreign medical facilities are not Joint Commission Accredited.[citation needed] Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So the answer to your question; "If single payer produces better results why do people from countries with single payer systems come here for health care?" is, who knows-----maybe visiting Haight-Ashbury is on their Bucket List, who knows?-----there are as many reasons for coming to the US for medical care as there are people coming to the US for medical care-----a guy I used to work with had his knee replacement done in France, so he could use the money he saved to offset touring Europe before having the procedure done. But he's just one guy, there are upwards of a million other stories out there - every year-----IOW your question makes no sense, but please try to explain why you think it does?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, because we have a Mayo clinic that means all of our other healthcare issues are irrelevant?

STRAWMAN

I asked why people from countries with single payer systems come here for medical care if those countries always have better health care than we do. you brought up boob jobs. How does that make the Mayo clinic a strawman? Are you so used to debating nincompoops you forgot how to mount a logical argument?

Maybe what you are parroting is mostly propaganda?

The Many Myths Of European Health Care - CBS News

I did not see anything in there about why people from other countries come to the US for treatment. All it talks about is how hard it is to actually rate health care systems worldwide, and how, even though the US excels in some areas, it doesn't win in the metrics they chose to use. Personally, I keep using the one that shows me people from every country in the world coming here, even France, Germany, and Austria, to get health care.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've heard of the occasional uber-rich person traveling to the US for some sort or other specialized medical care but the medical tourism trade is going the other direction-----but g'head, try to show me how I'm wrong about that. I think if you have any research skills at all, you'll find that there are many times more Americans going out of country for medical care than there are foreigners coming to the US for medical care.

Really? All of it you have heard of is going the other way? You should move to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or California and listen some more. People might choose to go to other countries to save money, but they come here to get the best care. Since everyone insists that single payer produces the best results I want an explanation why people from single payer countries come here for the best health care.

You obviously do not have it.

United States


A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care;[80] the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).[81] The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care,[80] whereas the low costs for hospital stays and major/complex procedures at Western-accredited medical facilities abroad are cited as major motivators for American travelers.[81] Also, it has been noted that the decline in value of the U.S. dollar is offering additional incentive for foreign travel to the U.S., although cost differences between the US and many locations in Asia far outweigh[clarification needed] any currency fluctuations.

Several major medical centers and teaching hospitals offer international patient centers that cater to patients from foreign countries who seek medical treatment in the U.S.[82] Many of these organizations offer service coordinators to assist international patients with arrangements for medical care, accommodations, finances and transportation including air ambulance services.

Many locations in the US that offer medical care comparable in price to foreign medical facilities are not Joint Commission Accredited.[citation needed] Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So the answer to your question; "If single payer produces better results why do people from countries with single payer systems come here for health care?" is, who knows-----maybe visiting Haight-Ashbury is on their Bucket List, who knows?-----there are as many reasons for coming to the US for medical care as there are people coming to the US for medical care-----a guy I used to work with had his knee replacement done in France, so he could use the money he saved to offset touring Europe before having the procedure done. But he's just one guy, there are upwards of a million other stories out there - every year-----IOW your question makes no sense, but please try to explain why you think it does?

Apparently you missed one sentence from the Wiki nonsense you posted.

The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care.

Hmm, advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of doctors. Sounds like our system does better at the things people really want than single payer systems, and that the only reason people go to other countries is to save money. By extension, they also get out of date medical technology and less well treained doctors, but I suppose that is OK if you are going in for something that is not really serious.

By the way, having grown up in El Paso I understand better than most how easy it is to get cheaper medical care in another country. We even have dentists that advertise about how they save money, and they usually do decent work. I also know what happens when it goes bad, I had a friend who had a complicated pregnancy and almost died because the hospital wouldn't admit her until the doctor showed up. She did loose the baby.

 

[Sallow]

I asked why people from countries with single payer systems come here for medical care if those countries always have better health care than we do. you brought up boob jobs. How does that make the Mayo clinic a strawman? Are you so used to debating nincompoops you forgot how to mount a logical argument?

Maybe what you are parroting is mostly propaganda?

The Many Myths Of European Health Care - CBS News

I did not see anything in there about why people from other countries come to the US for treatment. All it talks about is how hard it is to actually rate health care systems worldwide, and how, even though the US excels in some areas, it doesn't win in the metrics they chose to use. Personally, I keep using the one that shows me people from every country in the world coming here, even France, Germany, and Austria, to get health care.

Why do people in places like Cuba..live longer then American citizens?

Not sure about this.

 

[Star]

I've heard of the occasional uber-rich person traveling to the US for some sort or other specialized medical care but the medical tourism trade is going the other direction-----but g'head, try to show me how I'm wrong about that. I think if you have any research skills at all, you'll find that there are many times more Americans going out of country for medical care than there are foreigners coming to the US for medical care.

Really? All of it you have heard of is going the other way? You should move to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or California and listen some more. People might choose to go to other countries to save money, but they come here to get the best care. Since everyone insists that single payer produces the best results I want an explanation why people from single payer countries come here for the best health care.

You obviously do not have it.

United States


A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care;[80] the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).[81] The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care,[80] whereas the low costs for hospital stays and major/complex procedures at Western-accredited medical facilities abroad are cited as major motivators for American travelers.[81] Also, it has been noted that the decline in value of the U.S. dollar is offering additional incentive for foreign travel to the U.S., although cost differences between the US and many locations in Asia far outweigh[clarification needed] any currency fluctuations.

Several major medical centers and teaching hospitals offer international patient centers that cater to patients from foreign countries who seek medical treatment in the U.S.[82] Many of these organizations offer service coordinators to assist international patients with arrangements for medical care, accommodations, finances and transportation including air ambulance services.

Many locations in the US that offer medical care comparable in price to foreign medical facilities are not Joint Commission Accredited.[citation needed] Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So the answer to your question; "If single payer produces better results why do people from countries with single payer systems come here for health care?" is, who knows-----maybe visiting Haight-Ashbury is on their Bucket List, who knows?-----there are as many reasons for coming to the US for medical care as there are people coming to the US for medical care-----a guy I used to work with had his knee replacement done in France, so he could use the money he saved to offset touring Europe before having the procedure done. But he's just one guy, there are upwards of a million other stories out there - every year-----IOW your question makes no sense, but please try to explain why you think it does?

Apparently you missed one sentence from the Wiki nonsense you posted.

The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care.

Hmm, advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of doctors. Sounds like our system does better at the things people really want than single payer systems, and that the only reason people go to other countries is to save money. By extension, they also get out of date medical technology and less well treained doctors, but I suppose that is OK if you are going in for something that is not really serious.

By the way, having grown up in El Paso I understand better than most how easy it is to get cheaper medical care in another country. We even have dentists that advertise about how they save money, and they usually do decent work. I also know what happens when it goes bad, I had a friend who had a complicated pregnancy and almost died because the hospital wouldn't admit her until the doctor showed up. She did loose the baby.

I think you might be either confusing or conflating healthcare and healthcare coverage. The US has very good healthcare for people that are able to access healthcare, but there's the rub-----the people that are unable to access preventive care and...



Medical Tourism in the USA
A Growing Number of American Patients are Seeking Medical Treatment Abroad

The medical tourism industry has seen a major increase in the past decade.

Researchers have confirmed that:

• In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Latin America and Asia for medical treatment.
• In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
• By 2010, experts say that the number could increase to well over 1 million.

American patients are opting to undergo medical treatment abroad for procedures such as: face lifts, heart bypasses and fertility treatments. For many people who require medical treatment, the last thing they want to do is travel. However, due to the high cost of medical treatment in the USA, many American patients are going abroad for medical treatments. Their purpose is to save 50% to 80% on medical treatment conducted by doctors who are often trained in the United States, at hospitals that maintain the precise standards of patient care and safety.

USA Medical Tourism - Popular Destinations

Many American patients visit South or Central American countries like Brazil, Argentina or Costa Rica for cosmetic treatment, as they can travel cost effectively and can avail themselves of advanced cosmetic surgery. Mexico is a popular destination for American patients who need primary and dental care. "Dental Tourism" developed rapidly as Americans traveled to Central American countries such as Costa Rica for dental treatment not covered by their insurance. It is estimated that about 40% of today's medical tourism from the USA is for dental work. Costa Rica is a popular place for American medical tourists to travel to in order to receive quality dental care at about half the price.

According to a study completed in November 2007, by the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), most American patients obtain medical treatment in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Currently, countries like India and Thailand provide state-of-the-art amenities for critical treatments like hip or knee replacements and cardiac surgery. Some other popular destinations are Singapore, Belgium and South Africa. Many people from Northern and Western Europe visit Central and Eastern Europe for low-priced medical and dental care.

Reasons Why American Patients are Traveling Abroad for Medical Treatments

Patients from the US are provided with brand new facilities and equipment due to fierce competition among hospitals and global medical tourism centers. Though price is an important factor, there are other benefits of medical tourism.

Here are a few reasons why medical tourism is rapidly gaining popularity in the USA:

Low costs of Medical Treatment Abroad

For most people, the lower price is the main advantage of medical tourism. USA health care costs are often higher than the combined fee of traveling and receiving medical care abroad.

• A total face and neck lift procedure can cost about $12,000 in the U.S.A, while a similar procedure will costs around $3,000-4,000 overseas.
• The price of hip replacement surgery varies from $40,000 to $65,000 in the USA, whereas a similar procedure abroad costs about $8,000 to $18,000, including traveling expenses.
• India provides reasonable prices and high quality medical services to patients from the US. The prices in India usually vary from 0.25 to one 0.1 of the price of a similar medical procedure in the USA.
• Thailand - India's major competitor - is about 20% more expensive
• Receiving medical treatment in South America can cost between 50-100% more than it would in India.

High quality healthcare abroad

By doing the proper research, or consulting with a good agent, you ensure that you will receive high quality medical services with the best doctors in your destination country.

Medical treatment centers in many of these countries offer state-of-the-art facilities. This includes new or renovated private hospitals that use cutting edge technology and equipment. The doctors in these facilities are trained to American and European standards, providing service that is equal or greater to what hospitals in USA offer.

Benefit of Medical tourism for minor procedures

Patients who are undergoing minor surgery or procedures, can enjoy their recovery by staying in a relaxing vacation environment in beautiful surroundings. Patients accompanied by a family member or friend can enjoy some quality time, relaxing on the beach or going shopping. This can relieve much of the stress that builds up after a surgery. For patients receiving minor treatments, the benefits are even greater.

Lack of Insurance

The Miami Herald, November 2, 2008 revealed that while the USA continues to debate over their medical insurance system, 61 million people are either uninsured or under-insured. They are rejecting the American health system because it fails to meet their needs and instead they seek medical treatment abroad.

According to David E. Williams, principal and co-founder of MedPharma partners, and author of Health Business Blog.com, the most popular medical treatments received abroad are Cosmetic and Dental surgeries as these treatments are usually not covered at all by insurance.

Receiving treatment anonymously

American patients who are traveling abroad for medical treatment can receive their treatments in privacy and recover in comfort, without questions and judgment from people who know them.

Researching medical tourism for USA patients

Josef Woodman, the author of "Patients Beyond Borders" confirmed that for a good experience, it is essential to research available doctors, enquire about success rates, and learn about the facilities beforehand.

There are also many quality resources available on the internet to research about medical tourism for USA citizens. The book [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Patients-Beyond-Borders-Everybodys-World-Class/dp/0979107903"]"Patients Beyond Borders," written by Josef Woodman[/ame], is a good source of information about the medical travel industry. Try to interact with representatives of hospitals abroad and with patients who have already traveled abroad for treatment.

Search for institutions authorized by the Joint Commission International. It is an affiliate of the group that certifies US hospitals. Also some foreign hospitals have associations with renowned US facilities, like Johns Hopkins and the Cleveland Clinic. Learn everything you possibly can about the hospitals and doctors before traveling abroad for medical treatment.

Medical tourism for USA citizens is a safe and affordable alternative when the necessary research and precautions are taken prior to the journey.



I won't question your personal experiences with medical care on the other side of the bridge-------your story is your story-------but your personal story is just one story and it doesn't necessarily square with the average experience of Americans seeking healthcare abroad.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe what you are parroting is mostly propaganda?

The Many Myths Of European Health Care - CBS News

I did not see anything in there about why people from other countries come to the US for treatment. All it talks about is how hard it is to actually rate health care systems worldwide, and how, even though the US excels in some areas, it doesn't win in the metrics they chose to use. Personally, I keep using the one that shows me people from every country in the world coming here, even France, Germany, and Austria, to get health care.

Why do people in places like Cuba..live longer then American citizens?

Not sure about this.

Because Cuba doesn't report death due to political activism?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've heard of the occasional uber-rich person traveling to the US for some sort or other specialized medical care but the medical tourism trade is going the other direction-----but g'head, try to show me how I'm wrong about that. I think if you have any research skills at all, you'll find that there are many times more Americans going out of country for medical care than there are foreigners coming to the US for medical care.

Really? All of it you have heard of is going the other way? You should move to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or California and listen some more. People might choose to go to other countries to save money, but they come here to get the best care. Since everyone insists that single payer produces the best results I want an explanation why people from single payer countries come here for the best health care.

You obviously do not have it.



Apparently you missed one sentence from the Wiki nonsense you posted.

The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care.

Hmm, advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of doctors. Sounds like our system does better at the things people really want than single payer systems, and that the only reason people go to other countries is to save money. By extension, they also get out of date medical technology and less well treained doctors, but I suppose that is OK if you are going in for something that is not really serious.

By the way, having grown up in El Paso I understand better than most how easy it is to get cheaper medical care in another country. We even have dentists that advertise about how they save money, and they usually do decent work. I also know what happens when it goes bad, I had a friend who had a complicated pregnancy and almost died because the hospital wouldn't admit her until the doctor showed up. She did loose the baby.

I think you might be either confusing or conflating healthcare and healthcare coverage. The US has very good healthcare for people that are able to access healthcare, but there's the rub-----the people that are unable to access preventive care and...



Medical Tourism in the USA
A Growing Number of American Patients are Seeking Medical Treatment Abroad

The medical tourism industry has seen a major increase in the past decade.

Researchers have confirmed that:

• In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Latin America and Asia for medical treatment.
• In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
• By 2010, experts say that the number could increase to well over 1 million.

American patients are opting to undergo medical treatment abroad for procedures such as: face lifts, heart bypasses and fertility treatments. For many people who require medical treatment, the last thing they want to do is travel. However, due to the high cost of medical treatment in the USA, many American patients are going abroad for medical treatments. Their purpose is to save 50% to 80% on medical treatment conducted by doctors who are often trained in the United States, at hospitals that maintain the precise standards of patient care and safety.

USA Medical Tourism - Popular Destinations

Many American patients visit South or Central American countries like Brazil, Argentina or Costa Rica for cosmetic treatment, as they can travel cost effectively and can avail themselves of advanced cosmetic surgery. Mexico is a popular destination for American patients who need primary and dental care. "Dental Tourism" developed rapidly as Americans traveled to Central American countries such as Costa Rica for dental treatment not covered by their insurance. It is estimated that about 40% of today's medical tourism from the USA is for dental work. Costa Rica is a popular place for American medical tourists to travel to in order to receive quality dental care at about half the price.

According to a study completed in November 2007, by the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), most American patients obtain medical treatment in Mexico and other Latin American countries. Currently, countries like India and Thailand provide state-of-the-art amenities for critical treatments like hip or knee replacements and cardiac surgery. Some other popular destinations are Singapore, Belgium and South Africa. Many people from Northern and Western Europe visit Central and Eastern Europe for low-priced medical and dental care.

Reasons Why American Patients are Traveling Abroad for Medical Treatments

Patients from the US are provided with brand new facilities and equipment due to fierce competition among hospitals and global medical tourism centers. Though price is an important factor, there are other benefits of medical tourism.

Here are a few reasons why medical tourism is rapidly gaining popularity in the USA:

Low costs of Medical Treatment Abroad

For most people, the lower price is the main advantage of medical tourism. USA health care costs are often higher than the combined fee of traveling and receiving medical care abroad.

• A total face and neck lift procedure can cost about $12,000 in the U.S.A, while a similar procedure will costs around $3,000-4,000 overseas.
• The price of hip replacement surgery varies from $40,000 to $65,000 in the USA, whereas a similar procedure abroad costs about $8,000 to $18,000, including traveling expenses.
• India provides reasonable prices and high quality medical services to patients from the US. The prices in India usually vary from 0.25 to one 0.1 of the price of a similar medical procedure in the USA.
• Thailand - India's major competitor - is about 20% more expensive
• Receiving medical treatment in South America can cost between 50-100% more than it would in India.

High quality healthcare abroad

By doing the proper research, or consulting with a good agent, you ensure that you will receive high quality medical services with the best doctors in your destination country.

Medical treatment centers in many of these countries offer state-of-the-art facilities. This includes new or renovated private hospitals that use cutting edge technology and equipment. The doctors in these facilities are trained to American and European standards, providing service that is equal or greater to what hospitals in USA offer.

Benefit of Medical tourism for minor procedures

Patients who are undergoing minor surgery or procedures, can enjoy their recovery by staying in a relaxing vacation environment in beautiful surroundings. Patients accompanied by a family member or friend can enjoy some quality time, relaxing on the beach or going shopping. This can relieve much of the stress that builds up after a surgery. For patients receiving minor treatments, the benefits are even greater.

Lack of Insurance

The Miami Herald, November 2, 2008 revealed that while the USA continues to debate over their medical insurance system, 61 million people are either uninsured or under-insured. They are rejecting the American health system because it fails to meet their needs and instead they seek medical treatment abroad.

According to David E. Williams, principal and co-founder of MedPharma partners, and author of Health Business Blog.com, the most popular medical treatments received abroad are Cosmetic and Dental surgeries as these treatments are usually not covered at all by insurance.

Receiving treatment anonymously

American patients who are traveling abroad for medical treatment can receive their treatments in privacy and recover in comfort, without questions and judgment from people who know them.

Researching medical tourism for USA patients

Josef Woodman, the author of "Patients Beyond Borders" confirmed that for a good experience, it is essential to research available doctors, enquire about success rates, and learn about the facilities beforehand.

There are also many quality resources available on the internet to research about medical tourism for USA citizens. The book [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Patients-Beyond-Borders-Everybodys-World-Class/dp/0979107903"]"Patients Beyond Borders," written by Josef Woodman[/ame], is a good source of information about the medical travel industry. Try to interact with representatives of hospitals abroad and with patients who have already traveled abroad for treatment.

Search for institutions authorized by the Joint Commission International. It is an affiliate of the group that certifies US hospitals. Also some foreign hospitals have associations with renowned US facilities, like Johns Hopkins and the Cleveland Clinic. Learn everything you possibly can about the hospitals and doctors before traveling abroad for medical treatment.

Medical tourism for USA citizens is a safe and affordable alternative when the necessary research and precautions are taken prior to the journey.



I won't question your personal experiences with medical care on the other side of the bridge-------your story is your story-------but your personal story is just one story and it doesn't necessarily square with the average experience of Americans seeking healthcare abroad.

Actually, I think you are confusing access to health care with health care. I would rather have a system that allows people to pay for extra coverage they want than one that only gives extra coverage to those the state approves of. One is about freedom, the other is about control.

 

[Political Junky]

So, because we have a Mayo clinic that means all of our other healthcare issues are irrelevant?

STRAWMAN

I asked why people from countries with single payer systems come here for medical care if those countries always have better health care than we do. you brought up boob jobs. How does that make the Mayo clinic a strawman? Are you so used to debating nincompoops you forgot how to mount a logical argument?

Maybe what you are parroting is mostly propaganda?

The Many Myths Of European Health Care - CBS News

Excellent article, thanks.

 

[Star]

I won't question your personal experiences with medical care on the other side of the bridge-------your story is your story-------but your personal story is just one story and it doesn't necessarily square with the average experience of Americans seeking healthcare abroad.

Actually, I think you are confusing access to health care with health care. I would rather have a system that allows people to pay for extra coverage they want than one that only gives extra coverage to those the state approves of. One is about freedom, the other is about control.

Huh? You'd rather -pay extra- for what the rest of the industrial world takes for granted-----Yikes! talk about transferring wealth to corporate America while simultaneously putting American consumers behind the 8-ball.


Question: if America takes your advice, how will Americans be able to pay big oil and speculators manipulated gas prices? -pewsh!-






"...if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?" ~ David L Miller - The Many Myths Of European Health Care

 

[Outback]

I did not see anything in there about why people from other countries come to the US for treatment. All it talks about is how hard it is to actually rate health care systems worldwide, and how, even though the US excels in some areas, it doesn't win in the metrics they chose to use. Personally, I keep using the one that shows me people from every country in the world coming here, even France, Germany, and Austria, to get health care.

Why do people in places like Cuba..live longer then American citizens?

Not sure about this.

Because Cuba doesn't report death due to political activism?

If I need medical treatment and have a choice of Cuba or the US then I'm coming to the US.

 

[driveby]

Provisions in the Affordable Care Act make it one of the toughest anti-fraud laws in history. The results? Another record setting year.

Feds recover $4.1B in health care fraud in 2011

Federal authorities say they recovered $4.1 billion in health care fraud judgments last year, a record high which officials on Monday credited to new tools for cracking down on deceitful Medicare claims.

The recovered funds are up roughly 50 percent from 2009. Attorney General Eric Holder and Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius were expected to make the announcement at a news conference Tuesday.

more


Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke

Great, so throw out the other 1800 pages full of taxes increases, mandates and government intrusions. Then maybe you'll have a piece of legislation that's worth a rats ass...........

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually, I think you are confusing access to health care with health care. I would rather have a system that allows people to pay for extra coverage they want than one that only gives extra coverage to those the state approves of. One is about freedom, the other is about control.

Huh? You'd rather -pay extra- for what the rest of the industrial world takes for granted-----Yikes! talk about transferring wealth to corporate America while simultaneously putting American consumers behind the 8-ball.


Question: if America takes your advice, how will Americans be able to pay big oil and speculators manipulated gas prices? -pewsh!-






"...if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?" ~ David L Miller - The Many Myths Of European Health Care

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

 

[Bfgrn]

Huh? You'd rather -pay extra- for what the rest of the industrial world takes for granted-----Yikes! talk about transferring wealth to corporate America while simultaneously putting American consumers behind the 8-ball.


Question: if America takes your advice, how will Americans be able to pay big oil and speculators manipulated gas prices? -pewsh!-






"...if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?" ~ David L Miller - The Many Myths Of European Health Care

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

 

[Political Junky]

Huh? You'd rather -pay extra- for what the rest of the industrial world takes for granted-----Yikes! talk about transferring wealth to corporate America while simultaneously putting American consumers behind the 8-ball.


Question: if America takes your advice, how will Americans be able to pay big oil and speculators manipulated gas prices? -pewsh!-






"...if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?" ~ David L Miller - The Many Myths Of European Health Care

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

Mr. Potter is very convincing, and I've seen him interviewed several times.

 

[Bfgrn]

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

Mr. Potter is very convincing, and I've seen him interviewed several times.

Isn't it ironic that 'Marketists' can't hear a word Potter says. It is way too threatening to their dogma.

Every other industrialized nation has figured out that not every situation fits a 'free market' solution. And none of them became socialist nations.

The best performing healthcare systems all have one thing in common, and conversely the worst performing healthcare systems all have one thing in common.

The best performing all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Huh? You'd rather -pay extra- for what the rest of the industrial world takes for granted-----Yikes! talk about transferring wealth to corporate America while simultaneously putting American consumers behind the 8-ball.


Question: if America takes your advice, how will Americans be able to pay big oil and speculators manipulated gas prices? -pewsh!-






"...if universal health insurance means long queues for treatments, then why aren't patients in Paris or Hamburg waiting months for routine services — while patients in Boston and Los Angeles are?

If it means getting rushed, impersonal treatment, then why do France and Germany give new mothers more than four days to recover in the hospital, while insurance companies in the U.S. push new mothers out before two?

If it means making do with less advanced technology, then why does Japan have more CT and MRI scanners per person than we do?

And if it means worse health care overall, then why do so many studies show the U.S. scoring so poorly on international comparisons, including those examining "mortality amenable to health care" — a statistic devised specifically to test the quality of different health care systems across the globe?" ~ David L Miller - The Many Myths Of European Health Care

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

Marketists? Is that like communist? I actually heard that interview before, what is it you think I am supposed to here? Because what it tells me is that crony capitalism is destroying health care, which is what I said in the first place.