Abusive relationships - two points of view

[Michelle420]

I don't share the opinion that women like being beat up and stay because the attention they got from a broken jaw was worth it.

I think it's more complicated then that and I feel sorry for those women.

Nobody deserves to be beaten and no matter their low self-esteem or low self-worth I don't agree that if they take it, that means they want it.

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

 

[Michelle420]

So its better they get their asses kicked repeatetly then to at least have a chance to plug the bastard and end it once and for all?

If a victim is ambivalent about signing a complaint, why would he/she be likely to blow him/her away?

OTOH, the abuser is already committed to and comfortable with violent behavior and its a much shorter jump to pulling the trigger. That's why it happens that way rather than the abuser being killed.

That has usually to do with the pre-meditiation, which under current law, is far worse than "heat of the moment" crimes.

The women usually fully intend to kill the assholes after years of abuse. In the other direction, its usually a beating that went too far, thus does not meet the requirement for Murder 1 (and usually not even Murder 2).

So, serial beatings are not "pre-meditation"??

And, murder is a "beating that went too far"??

gawd.

That's why rough sex is a defense to murder. S&M relationships sometimes end in murder, or at least serious injury. I recall one case, the victim was beaten unconscious and left with a concussion and perhaps permanent injury. In an odd twist the woman was the sadist and her husband the masochist. She beat him with a telephone receiver, back when telephones had receivers.

SM is not Domestic Violence
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Domestic violence is a pattern of intentional intimidation of one partner to coerce or isolate the other partner without consent. Abuse tends to be cyclical in nature, escalates over time, and characterized by apologies between the episodes that it will never happen again.

SM is not abuse or domestic violence because:

SM is voluntary. The partners agree to erotic power exchange of their own free will and choice. Either partner is free to leave at any time. The fact that SM relationships do split (amiably or not) without retaliation or violence supports the importance of this distinction.

SM is consensual. All partners involved agree to what is going to happen. Discussion of limits is usual and customary. Violation of those limits is a serious offense within the SM community.

SM partners are informed. Participants involved in erotic power exchange have an understanding of the possible consequences.

SM partners ask for and enjoy the behavior; they are often disappointed if the behavior does not happen. There is no apology for the behavior after it is over, rather both partners are happy and satisfied that it occurred.

SM partners take great care to make sure that their activities are as safe as possible. To truly damage their partner would deny themselves of being able to participate in the behavior. Individuals that violate their partners limits soon find that they are lacking partners in which to engage in the behavior. To emphasize the point, SM groups frequent hold educational meetings on how to safely engage in the behavior.
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https://ncsfreedom.org/key-programs...3-what-is-sm-sm-is-not-domestic-violence.html

In domestic violence the abuser is losing his temper, it is not controlled and the person being abused is terrorized there is an apology stage that is like courting in which the abuser attempts to romance the abused into accepting the apology and staying together.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

 

[Defiant1]

The expanded law includes hurtful language as domestic violence too.

I think I saw some cases where the man refused to talk or acknowledge his wife/partner and that was considered abuse.

These days men can't win.

Seriously?

You're trying to equate physical abuse with not talking to a spouse?

Really?

I wasn't equating it. I am saying others consider it abuse.

I don't

 

[High_Gravity]

No one knows why women choose to stay in abusive relationships. I've known MANY. One in particular was especially troubling. After months of leaving and going back, I never heard from the woman again. I assume she was murdered. I expected it.

VAWA does not help women in abusive relationships. It was ill designed and ill conceived. It just sounds good. It has a nice protective title when it does no such thing. I've seen VAWA intentionally used for personal gain, without regard as to the harm caused. Expecting and intending the harm caused. The expanded version of VAWA doesn't even require a domestic relationship. Or, even a relationship at all.

Some people just like it, thats all there is to it. Nobody can be a hero and save a woman from an abusive relationship if she isn't ready to leave.

 

[Katzndogz]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

 

[AmyNation]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

I don't believe that. There are people who crave violence.

I've had abused women tell me how they couldn't wait for the violence, because of how wonderful things became after, or because they equated the violence with love or like army said they craved the control aspect of it.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

I don't believe that. There are people who crave violence.

I've had abused women tell me how they couldn't wait for the violence, because of how wonderful things became after, or because they equated the violence with love or like army said they craved the control aspect of it.

I don't believe you have had women say that they couldn't wait to be beaten because of how wonderful things will be afterward.



Women in domestic violence situations typically have low self-esteem, low self-worth and do not feel like that have a right to breathe.

Some of the women come from homes where they grew up in violence and it is all they know, others are beaten down physically and psychologically they don't feel they deserve a good life.

But I have never met a woman who was a victim of being beaten say she liked it and she looked forward to it. Not even one time.

 

[martybegan]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

On one point i think I disagree. A non abuser, driven into a situation where the abusee exepects a response would probably feel so miserable afterwards as to ge the hell out of a relationship.

Just as you get women with the mentality to be abused, you have men with the mentality to be abusers. Chronic cases of abuse require both.

That being said you can have a one time spat between anyone, however the appaling nature of that usually leads to it being a one shot thing, or they get the hell away from each other.

 

[Michelle420]

I don't know how many women want to be beaten, consciously or subconsciously. When they stay, the result is the same whether they want it or not. It is a vastly complicated subject and includes women who get out of abusive relationships only to immediately find another abuser. And, normally, when such a woman does get out of an abusive relationship, it's because HE has left. Not her. It's also a mistake to immediately identify an abuser as a "he" when lesbian or gay relationships can be just as abusive.

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

It is not "clear", nor cut n dry. There are a lot of things that play into why a woman stays stuck in a situation that she feels terrorized in, helpless and fearful.

They do not "certainly" want to have a broken nose, jaw or body beaten to a pulp.

Nobody deserves a beating no matter if they purposely push someones buttons or not.

Nobody !

 

[Katzndogz]

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

On one point i think I disagree. A non abuser, driven into a situation where the abusee exepects a response would probably feel so miserable afterwards as to ge the hell out of a relationship.

Just as you get women with the mentality to be abused, you have men with the mentality to be abusers. Chronic cases of abuse require both.

That being said you can have a one time spat between anyone, however the appaling nature of that usually leads to it being a one shot thing, or they get the hell away from each other.

A woman needing to be abused finds a non-abuser utterly boring. The relationship dies aborning. Or, the non abuser is confused by the agitation a woman who needs to be abused brings and leaves before it gets to that point.

A woman that does not have a need to be in an abusive relationship can usually pick up on the cues an abuser gives out early on. I call it the creepy feeling. And she terminates it before it gets to first slap. Abuse does not spring forth fully formed one day. It's like a dance. Each one tests the other for a long time before abuse finally flowers into violence.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

It is not "clear", nor cut n dry. There are a lot of things that play into why a woman stays stuck in a situation that she feels terrorized in, helpless and fearful.

They do not "certainly" want to have a broken nose, jaw or body beaten to a pulp.

Nobody deserves a beating no matter if they purposely push someones buttons or not.

Nobody !

Nobody deserves a beating, unless they really do deserve it, but that's a different situation. A woman may not want a broken nose, jaw or body beaten to a pulp, But that's not all they are getting. They are also getting some deep seated need fullfilled. The beating just comes along with it.

Don't confuse wants with needs because they are entirely different animals.

 

[Michelle420]

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

It is not "clear", nor cut n dry. There are a lot of things that play into why a woman stays stuck in a situation that she feels terrorized in, helpless and fearful.

They do not "certainly" want to have a broken nose, jaw or body beaten to a pulp.

Nobody deserves a beating no matter if they purposely push someones buttons or not.

Nobody !

Nobody deserves a beating, unless they really do deserve it, but that's a different situation. A woman may not want a broken nose, jaw or body beaten to a pulp, But that's not all they are getting. They are also getting some deep seated need fullfilled. The beating just comes along with it.

Don't confuse wants with needs because they are entirely different animals.

There is no confusion.

We are talking about women being beaten in there domestic relationship.

Nobody ever deserves to be beat.

 

[Michelle420]

Again, it may not be at all conscious. Clearly women who stay with abusers or find abuser after abuser certainly get something out of an abusive relationship. They certainly want whatever it is they are getting. When they do meet someone who isn't abusive, they can't or won't form a relationship with that person. Or, they do whatever they can to antagonize a non-abuser into being an abuser. They aren't fullfilling whatever need abuse fills.

On one point i think I disagree. A non abuser, driven into a situation where the abusee exepects a response would probably feel so miserable afterwards as to ge the hell out of a relationship.

Just as you get women with the mentality to be abused, you have men with the mentality to be abusers. Chronic cases of abuse require both.

That being said you can have a one time spat between anyone, however the appaling nature of that usually leads to it being a one shot thing, or they get the hell away from each other.

A woman needing to be abused finds a non-abuser utterly boring. The relationship dies aborning. Or, the non abuser is confused by the agitation a woman who needs to be abused brings and leaves before it gets to that point.

A woman that does not have a need to be in an abusive relationship can usually pick up on the cues an abuser gives out early on. I call it the creepy feeling. And she terminates it before it gets to first slap. Abuse does not spring forth fully formed one day. It's like a dance. Each one tests the other for a long time before abuse finally flowers into violence.

There are psychological issues that need to be counseled to, much like those wo come back from war, there are emotional and mental scars along with the physical bruises.

Because of the low self-esteem and low self-worth and then the added trauma of being abused women coming out of a domestic violence situation feel undeserving of being in a fulfiling relationship.

However, that does not mean it is true.

Nobody deserves to be beaten in a relationship, but those who are coming out of abuse deserve a chance to heal and also deserve protection.

 

[Katzndogz]

No body ever deserves it, but some people just need it. Why? That's a subject for the ages. The best psychologists and psychiatrists have never been able to figure it out.

 

[AmyNation]

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

I don't believe that. There are people who crave violence.

I've had abused women tell me how they couldn't wait for the violence, because of how wonderful things became after, or because they equated the violence with love or like army said they craved the control aspect of it.

I don't believe you have had women say that they couldn't wait to be beaten because of how wonderful things will be afterward.



Women in domestic violence situations typically have low self-esteem, low self-worth and do not feel like that have a right to breathe.

Some of the women come from homes where they grew up in violence and it is all they know, others are beaten down physically and psychologically they don't feel they deserve a good life.

But I have never met a woman who was a victim of being beaten say she liked it and she looked forward to it. Not even one time.

Have you talked with a lot of women in violent situations?

No, I have never had a woman tell me she liked being hit, but I have had her tell me she anticipates the fight, that she "likes it" and that I just can't understand how good "it" is after.

 

[Katzndogz]

On one point i think I disagree. A non abuser, driven into a situation where the abusee exepects a response would probably feel so miserable afterwards as to ge the hell out of a relationship.

Just as you get women with the mentality to be abused, you have men with the mentality to be abusers. Chronic cases of abuse require both.

That being said you can have a one time spat between anyone, however the appaling nature of that usually leads to it being a one shot thing, or they get the hell away from each other.

A woman needing to be abused finds a non-abuser utterly boring. The relationship dies aborning. Or, the non abuser is confused by the agitation a woman who needs to be abused brings and leaves before it gets to that point.

A woman that does not have a need to be in an abusive relationship can usually pick up on the cues an abuser gives out early on. I call it the creepy feeling. And she terminates it before it gets to first slap. Abuse does not spring forth fully formed one day. It's like a dance. Each one tests the other for a long time before abuse finally flowers into violence.

There are psychological issues that need to be counseled to, much like those wo come back from war, there are emotional and mental scars along with the physical bruises.

Because of the low self-esteem and low self-worth and then the added trauma of being abused women coming out of a domestic violence situation feel undeserving of being in a fulfiling relationship.

However, that does not mean it is true.

Nobody deserves to be beaten in a relationship, but those who are coming out of abuse deserve a chance to heal and also deserve protection.

Not at all true. Victims of abuse are often accomplished, professionals, high achievers. They don't have low self-esteem. Their self-esteem is doing just fine. They don't feel undeserving of being in a non-abusive relationship. Such a relationship is ultimately too boring for them to continue. Those who suffer abuse don't come out of a domestic abuse situation as traumatized victims. They go into the domestic abuse situation voluntarily victims before the first kiss.

Women trying to get out of abusive situations are given all kinds of protection. The first thing they do is try to reconnect with the abuser. If they can't reconnect with that abuser, they will look for another abuser. Go to a safe house, or a shelter. See what it's really like.

Abusive relationships is rather like drug addiction. The abuser is seldom if ever, abusive all the time. In between periods of abuse, the abuser may really be Prince Charming. His attention and devotion, his capacity for romance is beyond experience. The woman craves that attention. She needs it so much that the periods of abuse become just the price to pay for the next romantic high. Somewhere along the line, she starts to equate that kind of love with the abuse. She looks for a similar relationship next time, hoping that a capacity to abuse means that the guy can also perform the capacity for the kind of love-high she's looking for.

Stable relationships, on the other hand, do not have those periods of intense highs and lows. They are pretty much the same all the time, every day. That's what makes them stable.

 

[bodecea]

Ok, I've read what they are attempting to do.

N.H. bill would reduce simple assault from misdemeanor to violation in some cases | Concord Monitor

I can see both sides of the argument. You can serve up to a year in jail for simple physical contact that results in no harm to another person. So, in the article the example they give is tapping (I assume in anger) a person on the shoulder, and now you're facing jail time.

However, I don't agree in reducing simple assault(which is physical contact that results in no harm to another person) to a violation only. Just like a year in jail is not a valid punishment for tapping someone on the shoulder, I can see many instances where a violation would not be a valid punishment for, say throwing someone around, shoving, grabbing, dragging etc... Lots of contact can be violent without causing harm.

The expanded law includes hurtful language as domestic violence too.

I think I saw some cases where the man refused to talk or acknowledge his wife/partner and that was considered abuse.

These days men can't win.

I'd like to read up on those cases. Link please.

 

[High_Gravity]

Nobody wants to be beaten in a domestic violence situation.

I don't believe that. There are people who crave violence.

I've had abused women tell me how they couldn't wait for the violence, because of how wonderful things became after, or because they equated the violence with love or like army said they craved the control aspect of it.

I don't believe you have had women say that they couldn't wait to be beaten because of how wonderful things will be afterward.


Women in domestic violence situations typically have low self-esteem, low self-worth and do not feel like that have a right to breathe.

Some of the women come from homes where they grew up in violence and it is all they know, others are beaten down physically and psychologically they don't feel they deserve a good life.

But I have never met a woman who was a victim of being beaten say she liked it and she looked forward to it. Not even one time.

Well in alot of ways, it makes sense. Usually after the abuser beats his spouse, there is a short lived honeymoon period afterwards when things may be wonderful.