Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[Anguille]

Totally agree. In some societies, extended families play a much larger role than they do in standard American society, and that extended foundation of support is very helpful in providing a stable home.

quote]

While I agree with the above statement, I still expect some Catz Stats before I can accept your opinon as valid.

 

[Ravi]

The conclusion only sounds false to you, Ravi, because holding on to your particular paradigm is more important than being logical.

And for the record, I would NEVER advocate that a woman or man stay in an abusive marriage for ANY reason, so that's a strawman.

It's funny how you will only accept scientific data when it fits your foregone conclusions. It's kind of like arguing creationism with a fundamentalist. You're a fundamentalist liberal. You are only capable of exercising critical thought when ideas fit your internal biases.

The conclusion sounds false to me because they didn't ask about abusive treatment from parents and they didn't give the number of single-parent versus dual parent homes. You may think the answers to those questions are meaningless but they are not.

I did not say you would advocate anyone stay in an abusive marriage. I said the study might convince someone they should. You are the one employing a strawman, dearie.

You aren't capable of exercising critical thought at all apparently, as you believe totally anything that is written in a study.

 

[catzmeow]

While I agree with the above statement, I still expect some Catz Stats before I can accept your opinon as valid.

Providing you with stats is a huge waste of effort. Even I, slow learner that I am, have figured that one out. You aren't interested in stats. You're interested in talking to show us how morally superior you are.

 

[Againsheila]

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

She wasn't a single mom, was she?

Then again, you could say Jesus was a gang member, what with his 12 disciples following him around.

 

[Againsheila]

The conclusion only sounds false to you, Ravi, because holding on to your particular paradigm is more important than being logical.

And for the record, I would NEVER advocate that a woman or man stay in an abusive marriage for ANY reason, so that's a strawman.

It's funny how you will only accept scientific data when it fits your foregone conclusions. It's kind of like arguing creationism with a fundamentalist. You're a fundamentalist liberal. You are only capable of exercising critical thought when ideas fit your internal biases.

The conclusion sounds false to me because they didn't ask about abusive treatment from parents and they didn't give the number of single-parent versus dual parent homes. You may think the answers to those questions are meaningless but they are not.

I did not say you would advocate anyone stay in an abusive marriage. I said the study might convince someone they should. You are the one employing a strawman, dearie.

You aren't capable of exercising critical thought at all apparently, as you believe totally anything that is written in a study.

Or perhaps it would convince someone who's looking for something better to stick with the marriage she or he has and work it out, instead of destroying their whole family because they have an itch they want scratched.

 

[Anguille]

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

She wasn't a single mom, was she?

Then again, you could say Jesus was a gang member, what with his 12 disciples following him around.

So I guess her not being a single mom yet raising a god of a man in spite of poverty, an extramarital affair, relationships with much older men/gods, being underage etc actually proves that single moms suck!!!!

Yikes!!!!

 

[Anguille]

The conclusion only sounds false to you, Ravi, because holding on to your particular paradigm is more important than being logical.

And for the record, I would NEVER advocate that a woman or man stay in an abusive marriage for ANY reason, so that's a strawman.

It's funny how you will only accept scientific data when it fits your foregone conclusions. It's kind of like arguing creationism with a fundamentalist. You're a fundamentalist liberal. You are only capable of exercising critical thought when ideas fit your internal biases.

The conclusion sounds false to me because they didn't ask about abusive treatment from parents and they didn't give the number of single-parent versus dual parent homes. You may think the answers to those questions are meaningless but they are not.

I did not say you would advocate anyone stay in an abusive marriage. I said the study might convince someone they should. You are the one employing a strawman, dearie.

You aren't capable of exercising critical thought at all apparently, as you believe totally anything that is written in a study.

Or perhaps it would convince someone who's looking for something better to stick with the marriage she or he has and work it out, instead of destroying their whole family because they have an itch they want scratched.

It depends on how bad the marriage is. I don't think it's good for the family or sets a good example for the kids if a woman or a man is putting up with serious abuse from their spouse.

But I agree that most relationships can be worked out with time and effort and become happy ones. Not everyone is best in a relationship though. I think living as a single person is a perfectly valid and preferable existance for many.

 

[catzmeow]

The conclusion sounds false to me because they didn't ask about abusive treatment from parents and they didn't give the number of single-parent versus dual parent homes. You may think the answers to those questions are meaningless but they are not.

Again, you are misrepresenting the study AND my opinions. Of course youth were asked questions about their home life, including questions about abuse and neglect. The study is one of the more comprehensive studies EVER conducted in the lives of youth, longitudinally, and followed these young people for two decades, asking questions about their home lives, family structures, school experiences, peers, communities, and personal lives. The fact that you didn't bother to actually read beyond the tip of your nose does not invalidate the study.

I did not say you would advocate anyone stay in an abusive marriage. I said the study might convince someone they should. You are the one employing a strawman, dearie.

There is no reason why anyone should stay in an abusive marriage, and I would be the last person to urge it. Nor was this study conducted by conservatives with the goal of keeping people married, as you seem to assume. The study was federally funded and designed to measure the causes and correlates of delinquency to guide policy decisions about prevention and intervention activities.

You aren't capable of exercising critical thought at all apparently, as you believe totally anything that is written in a study.

I will say that I do find a study that has been repeatedly validated by other, similar studies, that was incredibly comprehensive in scope, and conducted over more than 2 decades is a bit more trustworthy as a source than the opinion you plucked out of your ass with no research, no credentials, and no experience in the field.

I'm weird like that.

 

[catzmeow]

I think living as a single person is a perfectly valid and preferable existance for many.

Of course it is. And, if that single person is a parent, that parent should realize that he/she will need to take extra measures to provide stable, responsible adults in the life of his/her child, and work extra hard on that relationship. The. End.

That was my point.

 

[Againsheila]

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

She wasn't a single mom, was she?

Then again, you could say Jesus was a gang member, what with his 12 disciples following him around.

So I guess her not being a single mom yet raising a god of a man in spite of poverty, an extramarital affair, relationships with much older men/gods, being underage etc actually proves that single moms suck!!!!

Yikes!!!!

Seriously, I don't think anyone here is saying that single moms suck. We are saying that it is better for a child to be raised by TWO parents than it is for that child to be raised by ONE parent. Statistically that is the case. Even reports I've read on gay parents, the kids raised by two gay parents do better than kids raised by one parent.

IMO when it comes to adoption, the priority should be as follows..

1) married heterosexual couples (a mother and father figure)
2) gay couples (two parents are better than one)
3) single parents (one parent is better than none)

 

[Anguille]

I did not say you would advocate anyone stay in an abusive marriage. I said the study might convince someone they should. You are the one employing a strawman, dearie.

You aren't capable of exercising critical thought at all apparently, as you believe totally anything that is written in a study.

Catz is clever at picking up the buzz words but she doesn't know how to analyze what she reads. She accepts it as gospel. She wants to please.

 

[Anguille]

I think living as a single person is a perfectly valid and preferable existance for many.

Of course it is. And, if that single person is a parent, that parent should realize that he/she will need to take extra measures to provide stable, responsible adults in the life of his/her child, and work extra hard on that relationship. The. End.

That was my point.

Wasn't even talking to you, bozo.
And stop telling us how much extra work a single mom like yourself has. We get the point. You're a martyr.

 

[catzmeow]

Wasn't even talking to you, bozo.

Oh, my bad. I was under the impression that you'd posted your opinion on a public bullet board. Were you having a private conversation? Then perhaps you should have used the PM function.

And stop telling us how much extra work a single mom like yourself has. We get the point. You're a martyr.

That wasn't the point, retardando.

 

[catzmeow]

Catz is clever at picking up the buzz words but she doesn't know how to analyze what she reads. She accepts it as gospel. She wants to please.

Coming from you, this is a rich delicious chocolate cake made of irony.

 

[Anguille]

She wasn't a single mom, was she?

Then again, you could say Jesus was a gang member, what with his 12 disciples following him around.

So I guess her not being a single mom yet raising a god of a man in spite of poverty, an extramarital affair, relationships with much older men/gods, being underage etc actually proves that single moms suck!!!!

Yikes!!!!

Seriously, I don't think anyone here is saying that single moms suck. We are saying that it is better for a child to be raised by TWO parents than it is for that child to be raised by ONE parent. Statistically that is the case. Even reports I've read on gay parents, the kids raised by two gay parents do better than kids raised by one parent.

IMO when it comes to adoption, the priority should be as follows..

1) married heterosexual couples (a mother and father figure)
2) gay couples (two parents are better than one)
3) single parents (one parent is better than none)

In an ideal world that might be possible, even if not valid, to put into action. The point is though, too many kids are not considered prime adoption material. Wrong color, too old, handicapped. etc.

I know 3 single mothers of adopted kids. One is now marrried and her daughter is 5. She had made a lot of money before adopting so that was never an issue.
The other is a grandmother already, her daughter having had 3 kids with her high school sweatheart now husband. She got advanced degrees and put off her own romantic needs to adopt a problem 11 year old and foster her brother. When they grew up and moved into their own homes my friend began a relationship with a longtime friend and now he is grand father to her grandkids.
My cousin was a stay at home mom who adopted 2 babies from teen mothers after she was married. Her husband died when one was 5 and the other 3. She also has done a great job, went from overnight manager of a hotel to getting a teaching certificate so she could work hours that allowed her to be with her kids.

All these kids are doing very well and better than they would have had they remained in foster care or the orphanages.

My grandmother and great uncle were raised by their father when their mother died. They did have to spend some of their younger years in an orphanage and a year back in Sweden.

My grandfather was raised by his divorced mother.

Both my grandparents were excellent, wonderful people who did fine.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I think living as a single person is a perfectly valid and preferable existance for many.

Of course it is. And, if that single person is a parent, that parent should realize that he/she will need to take extra measures to provide stable, responsible adults in the life of his/her child, and work extra hard on that relationship. The. End.

That was my point.

Wasn't even talking to you, bozo.
And stop telling us how much extra work a single mom like yourself has. We get the point. You're a martyr.

Ever see the SNL skit on the Weiners?

I see a political future for Bristol Palin.

 

[catzmeow]

In an ideal world that might be possible, even if not valid, to put into action. The point is though, too many kids are not considered prime adoption material. Wrong color, too old, handicapped. etc.

I know 3 single mothers of adopted kids. One is now marrried and her daughter is 5. She had made a lot of money before adopting so that was never an issue.

I think it is great when ANYONE, male, female, single, married, straight or gay, adopts children out of the foster care system. I have a good friend in California who is a lesbian who has adopted 5 special needs kids and has done a truly remarkable job of raising them.

I don't think you understand what has been said here. Clearly, being with a single person in a stable family situation is better for a child than being in an unstable foster care situation, in almost every case. And, single parents DO FINE in raising kids, for the most part. But, when you couple single parenting with other risk factors, those risk factors add up.

Kids can have 2-3 risk factors in their lives and grow up great and healthy. When you start getting into having 4 or more risk factors, though, and single parent families are one of them, then there start to be issues.

 

[Againsheila]

So I guess her not being a single mom yet raising a god of a man in spite of poverty, an extramarital affair, relationships with much older men/gods, being underage etc actually proves that single moms suck!!!!

Yikes!!!!

Seriously, I don't think anyone here is saying that single moms suck. We are saying that it is better for a child to be raised by TWO parents than it is for that child to be raised by ONE parent. Statistically that is the case. Even reports I've read on gay parents, the kids raised by two gay parents do better than kids raised by one parent.

IMO when it comes to adoption, the priority should be as follows..

1) married heterosexual couples (a mother and father figure)
2) gay couples (two parents are better than one)
3) single parents (one parent is better than none)

In an ideal world that might be possible, even if not valid, to put into action. The point is though, too many kids are not considered prime adoption material. Wrong color, too old, handicapped. etc.

I know 3 single mothers of adopted kids. One is now marrried and her daughter is 5. She had made a lot of money before adopting so that was never an issue.
The other is a grandmother already, her daughter having had 3 kids with her high school sweatheart now husband. She got advanced degrees and put off her own romantic needs to adopt a problem 11 year old and foster her brother. When they grew up and moved into their own homes my friend began a relationship with a longtime friend and now he is grand father to her grandkids.
My cousin was a stay at home mom who adopted 2 babies from teen mothers after she was married. Her husband died when one was 5 and the other 3. She also has done a great job, went from overnight manager of a hotel to getting a teaching certificate so she could work hours that allowed her to be with her kids.

All these kids are doing very well and better than they would have had they remained in foster care or the orphanages.

My grandmother and great uncle were raised by their father when their mother died. They did have to spend some of their younger years in an orphanage and a year back in Sweden.

My grandfather was raised by his divorced mother.

Both my grandparents were excellent, wonderful people who did fine.

Again, see my post... we are not saying single parents suck, we are saying that two parents are as a rule, better for a child than one parent.

There are always exceptions to every rule.

As to being the wrong color or too old to adopt, I have friends that are fostering to adopt. One child, a crack baby, they adopted while he was a baby, the other two are toddlers now and they will adopt them as soon as they are able. The father of one of them has never seen his little girl, but doesn't want to give up his rights, which, imo, is bad for his little girl who is currently being raised by the only parents she has ever known. Oh, my friends are white, two of their kids are black.

My neighbor adopted an 11 year old with a cleft palette from China. He's now 14 and has had several operations, more to go. He's a wonderful kid who comes over to play with and groom my dog. He wants to be a veterinarian.

I also know a woman who adopted a 16 year old autistic boy with the intelligence of a two year old. She had been the child's aid at school for several years when she found out he was up for adoption.

I also know a single woman who has adopted 3 children, all special needs. They have a wonderful mom.

 

[Anguille]

Again, see my post... we are not saying single parents suck, we are saying that two parents are as a rule, better for a child than one parent.

There are always exceptions to every rule.

As to being the wrong color or too old to adopt, I have friends that are fostering to adopt. One child, a crack baby, they adopted while he was a baby, the other two are toddlers now and they will adopt them as soon as they are able. The father of one of them has never seen his little girl, but doesn't want to give up his rights, which, imo, is bad for his little girl who is currently being raised by the only parents she has ever known. Oh, my friends are white, two of their kids are black.

My neighbor adopted an 11 year old with a cleft palette from China. He's now 14 and has had several operations, more to go. He's a wonderful kid who comes over to play with and groom my dog. He wants to be a veterinarian.

I also know a woman who adopted a 16 year old autistic boy with the intelligence of a two year old. She had been the child's aid at school for several years when she found out he was up for adoption.

I also know a single woman who has adopted 3 children, all special needs. They have a wonderful mom.

I forgot to mention the good friend of my mother who after having 2 natural children, adopted a rainbow coalition of 5 more kids with her husband. All doing extremely well. All very close and loving to each other.

So it looks like between the bunch of us here, we have come up with several exceptions to the "rule". But few, if any, families that fit the rule.

 

[Anguille]

Of course it is. And, if that single person is a parent, that parent should realize that he/she will need to take extra measures to provide stable, responsible adults in the life of his/her child, and work extra hard on that relationship. The. End.

That was my point.

Wasn't even talking to you, bozo.
And stop telling us how much extra work a single mom like yourself has. We get the point. You're a martyr.

Ever see the SNL skit on the Weiners?

I see a political future for Bristol Palin.

No I haven't.