Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[dilloduck]

Maybe the "punishment" for men needs to be greater ....with thinking like Skull's on this topic???

Maybe it is the father of this child that should "take care of them", until the child is adopted....?

Well even if all the rules and expectations are changed it still doesn't change anatomy and THAT is the only issue. If I were a woman I would be FAR more careful about my sexual exploits and I am very careful as a man.

 

[Care4all]

Maybe the "punishment" for men needs to be greater ....with thinking like Skull's on this topic???

Maybe it is the father of this child that should "take care of them", until the child is adopted....?

Well even if all the rules and expectations are changed it still doesn't change anatomy and THAT is the only issue. If I were a woman I would be FAR more careful about my sexual exploits and I am very careful as a man.

yeah, i suppose that is easier said, than done for an 18 or 20 year old....not like they have the experience behind them as an old dude like you do or an older broad like me does...

 

[dilloduck]

Maybe the "punishment" for men needs to be greater ....with thinking like Skull's on this topic???

Maybe it is the father of this child that should "take care of them", until the child is adopted....?

Well even if all the rules and expectations are changed it still doesn't change anatomy and THAT is the only issue. If I were a woman I would be FAR more careful about my sexual exploits and I am very careful as a man.

yeah, i suppose that is easier said, than done for an 18 or 20 year old....not like they have the experience behind them as an old dude like you do or an older broad like me does...

Never said it was easy for anyone--just pointing out the obvious difference in motivating factors.

 

[Anguille]

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

 

[Anguille]

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

you're easily astonished.

Your avatar looks a little astonished at that.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

I don't believe God and Mary were officially married.

 

[Anguille]

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

I don't believe God and Mary were officially married.

Exactly, that's what I said. And I suppose God was even older than Joseph.

 

[Anguille]

Maybe the "punishment" for men needs to be greater ....with thinking like Skull's on this topic???

Maybe it is the father of this child that should "take care of them", until the child is adopted....?

Interesting logic.

 

[dilloduck]

I forgot about that! She had a child with someone she wasn't married to. While being married to and old man.

Where are the Catz Stats on that?

I don't believe God and Mary were officially married.

Exactly, that's what I said. And I suppose God was even older than Joseph.

NOT--you said

While being married to and old man.

quit trying to squirm out of it. And Jesus' dad was eternally present. Knew everything the guy was goingg to do before he even did it.

 

[Care4all]

Well even if all the rules and expectations are changed it still doesn't change anatomy and THAT is the only issue. If I were a woman I would be FAR more careful about my sexual exploits and I am very careful as a man.

yeah, i suppose that is easier said, than done for an 18 or 20 year old....not like they have the experience behind them as an old dude like you do or an older broad like me does...

Never said it was easy for anyone--just pointing out the obvious difference in motivating factors.

but what makes that any different for the woman, and how she is made? whether she wants to or not, her body make up tells her that she is to produce babies? and i am not talking about the women that end up aborting, but the 43% that do end up delivering their children as single women...?

Just seems that BOTH male and female should take precautions, because many women will not abort and many women will choose to have a child out of wedlock, and the daddy will have to put out some bucks for their upkeep, not much, but enough to strap them a little....you would think that this is enough reason as well, no? Or is money really not that much of a burdon compared to single motherhood for the poor?

 

[Anguille]

I don't believe God and Mary were officially married.

Exactly, that's what I said. And I suppose God was even older than Joseph.

NOT--you said

While being married to and old man.

quit trying to squirm out of it. And Jesus' dad was eternally present. Knew everything the guy was goingg to do before he even did it.

rae*

Granted I'm no biblical scholar but Mary was married to Joseph, right? An old guy, right? And while married to joseph she got pregnant by God, right? Who also was very old. But not known to be a guy, a man, being devine and all, right?

 

[Agnapostate]

If you read about the history of Margaret Sanger, her background was in eugenics. She had very strong feelings that some people should be permanently sterilized, and that others (particularly poor minorities) should not be having children.

The goal of opening abortion clinics, particularly in poor areas, was to stop population growth among certain segments of society.

And, even now, when you hear middle class white women talk about abortion, the issue will always come up of how it would be better for some fetuses to be aborted because their mother is poor (and the assumption goes without saying, minority) and probably would be a bad parent anywhere.

it's a very ugly and subtle sort of racism.

That's amusing, considering that your irrational opposition to teenage pregnancy largely goes along with what essentially amounts to a eugenics program targeted at minority youth.

What's interesting to me is why is Amanda's age relevant?

I believe Bristol Palin was being referenced.

Because if they acknowledge that a mom and dad are the best family unit then that blows up any argument that two dads or two moms are just as good. Or a dad and a goat. Or mom and a monkey etc...

Uh...that doesn't really do anything, considering that the main issue involved is income. In fact, that would seem to be a benefit of polyamory or polygamy.

Just curious why you would think I'm a suburbanite? Or middle class?

She apparently believes that to be true of everyone with differing opinions on poverty and crime, including an amusing insinuation that I was "suburban," and a suggestion that I go into the "inner city" sometime. It's understandable. Naturally, being a chubby white woman who grew up on a farm in Missouri, she's a hard-core gangsta.

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

Yeah, I found that amusing, considering AllieBabble's presence and her rather expansive (read: inaccurate) definition of "pedophilia."

Granted I'm no biblical scholar but Mary was married to Joseph, right? An old guy, right? And while married to joseph she got pregnant by God, right? Who also was very old. But not known to be a guy, a man, being devine and all, right?

Joseph was likely an older man, considering the cultural practices of the time and the fact that unlike Jesus's mother and brothers, he does not appear at any point in Jesus's ministry, indicating that he may have died.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

When a girl says in front of her two kids almost everyday that she should give them up for adoption because she can't afford them and then spends over $100 on tupperware (and this was 20 years ago), there's something desperately wrong.

I was attacked by a friend for agreeing with the mother in question, she said that was a thoughtless thing for me to say. I pointed out that any mother who says in front of her kids repeatedly that she should give them up for adoption SHOULD give them up for adoption, it's pretty obvious they'd be better off with someone else.

While I agree she shouldn't say things like that, saying that would not cause quite the same feelings of rejection and abandonment as actually doing it, which could have lifelong consequences for the self-esteem of the kids. If it was my friend I'd talk to her privately about how that might make her kids feel and see if I can help her come up with a solution. (Knowing full well it'd be a sensitive issue, of course. People don't like to feel criticized as parents).

It would also have to be pretty bad for me to think the foster care system could do a better job:

Nearly half of foster kids in the U.S. become homeless when they turn 18

Although foster care is one solution to protecting children from abuse, it is an imperfect system which is also associated with relatively high rates of abuse and risks.

(wikipedia on foster care)

I'm astonished no one has yet brought up the Jesus was the child of a poor teenage mother thing yet.

Oh cmon---his dad was God, for Christ sakes.

Mary: "Oh God! That was immaculate."

Good thing the statute of limitations has passed, or else god might get arrested for statutory rape.

 

[Agnapostate]

Has anyone actually posted or watched the video?

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eixcsj7FI6I&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eixcsj7FI6I&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

There's another segment where her mother brings her son in to her. She seems a loving mother, and the disparagement is entirely unnecessary.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, I figured. They don't know either.

Okay, so let me sum this up. I've provided you with credible research performed by people who are THE EXPERTS in the field. And you, with your zero years of experience in social development research, have dismissed their findings and provided no evidence to back up YOUR position.

Is that how you generally argue your case?

And people find you credible?

I seriously have to wonder why anyone even responds to you.

Because I'm a lucky *****, of course.

They might be experts but that doesn't mean they are infallible. Quite often scientific studies draw the wrong conclusion. I don't have to back anything up, I don't know the answers. All I know is that this study didn't take into account abusive parental behavior, nor can I find the percentage of single parent homes and dual parent homes. Both those things throw their findings into question.

 

[Ravi]

Can someone explain to me why people like Anguille and Ravi are so invested in the idea that having a dad present in a home isn't important to kids' well-being? Because, this ain't rocket science, and I don't get why this particular paradigm is so important that it makes them incapable of being rational.

Now you're just having a hissy fit. I already explained to you that I'm uncomfortable with a study that draws a conclusion that sounds false. BECAUSE this kind of thing keeps people in abusive marriages for the sake of the kids.

btw, isn't that a bit sexist of you...assuming that it's the dad we want to get rid of....

 

[KittenKoder]

Can someone explain to me why people like Anguille and Ravi are so invested in the idea that having a dad present in a home isn't important to kids' well-being? Because, this ain't rocket science, and I don't get why this particular paradigm is so important that it makes them incapable of being rational.

Thing is, it doesn't matter if it's a mother/father, two mothers, or two fathers. Multiple parents lead to better raising of children primarily for financial needs, one is suppose to work and the other spend more time raising them. However this is becoming less the case now as all parents seem to work more and more, so even in two (or more) parent households the results are becoming more and more like the single parent households, either on welfare or the children behaving like lunatics. There are a LOT of factors as to why this is now the case, but it is. The most successful working class families have more than two "parents" or even more than one genetic family in the home sharing the responsibilities. In the perfect society a single parent would be able to raise their children just fine, but we are nowhere near a perfect society.

 

[Ravi]

Catz, seriously, this study is very flawed. And I wouldn't care except that if you convince people that being a single-parent puts your children at risk without any real evidence you encourage parents to stay in abusive marriages. Or you encourage them to micromanage and over-protect their kids...adding to the wussification of Americans everywhere.

Or she could also be encouraging them to abort. Something she claims she's against. She's one mixed up broad.

Good point.

 

[catzmeow]

Now you're just having a hissy fit. I already explained to you that I'm uncomfortable with a study that draws a conclusion that sounds false. BECAUSE this kind of thing keeps people in abusive marriages for the sake of the kids.

btw, isn't that a bit sexist of you...assuming that it's the dad we want to get rid of....

The conclusion only sounds false to you, Ravi, because holding on to your particular paradigm is more important than being logical.

And for the record, I would NEVER advocate that a woman or man stay in an abusive marriage for ANY reason, so that's a strawman.

It's funny how you will only accept scientific data when it fits your foregone conclusions. It's kind of like arguing creationism with a fundamentalist. You're a fundamentalist liberal. You are only capable of exercising critical thought when ideas fit your internal biases.

 

[catzmeow]

Thing is, it doesn't matter if it's a mother/father, two mothers, or two fathers. Multiple parents lead to better raising of children primarily for financial needs, one is suppose to work and the other spend more time raising them. However this is becoming less the case now as all parents seem to work more and more, so even in two (or more) parent households the results are becoming more and more like the single parent households, either on welfare or the children behaving like lunatics. There are a LOT of factors as to why this is now the case, but it is. The most successful working class families have more than two "parents" or even more than one genetic family in the home sharing the responsibilities. In the perfect society a single parent would be able to raise their children just fine, but we are nowhere near a perfect society.

Totally agree. In some societies, extended families play a much larger role than they do in standard American society, and that extended foundation of support is very helpful in providing a stable home.

Again, this has NOTHING to do with being against single parents, or suggesting that people should stay in miserable unhappy marriages. I am ONLY suggesting that we need to be aware that children need multiple stable adults in their lives. Remove a parent from the home, of either gender, and that's a hole that has to be filled by the remaining parent. I would never say it can't be done, because I believe it can, but it just makes it more difficult.