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About : The Script

emilynghiem

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Dear Douger:
1. First, if you are going to take issue with Christianity being abused politically for control or worldly gain, please read "Saving Paradise" by Rebecca Parker which acknowledges the corruption of the faith while also validating the true meaning and message as taught by the EARLY CHURCH. This process of falling out is ALSO forewarned in the Bible itself, that there will be those who come in the name of Christ yet are acting as Antichrist to abuse the laws for injustice, and there will be great apostasy and false teaching/division.

2. Secondly, the reason I don't have an issue with the quote below, about interpreting when Christ will return

is that when the spirit/meaning of Christ/God makes itself known to a person, when you feel you have received the spirit of truth and healing that makes you one with humanity and all of universal truth, then this is what it means for Christ to return and to establish teh Kingdom of God. You gain spiritual peace in your mind first, and then in your relations with others, and then it takes place worldwide for all humanity as this happens globally.

So with THAT interpretation, it does not bother me that this coming of Christ is expressed symbolically, and it happens for some people in the here and now, and for others it does not come until later. All these things are true, it happens in the blink of an eye, it takes centuries for it to take place for all humanity, many generations/lifetimes, but in God's time it has already happened as ordained.

As Jesus said, it is done.
It just manifests in linear time differently for different people but it's all one process of fulfillment.

RE: "Remember the biblical passages that suggest Jesus' imminent return? "Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here which shall not taste death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come to power." (Mark 9:1)

Or, how about Paul's expectation that he and some of the Thessalonians will be alive when the apocalypse occurs. Remember how he contrasts "those who have died" with "we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord?" (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 17) [The New Testament, Bart D. Ehrman, p.314]

Obviously, either Jesus or Mark got it wrong - and so did Paul. According to Professor Ehrman, Paul "appears to have no idea that his words would be discussed after his death, let alone read and studied some nineteen centuries later." [Ibid]

Nevertheless, "as hopes of Christ's imminent return began to fade in the later first century," Christians began to realize that they must create structures which might last at least for a generation or more amid a world of non-believers. [Diarmaid MacCullough, Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years, p. 118]"
 

ABikerSailor

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Question...........if Christianity was founded by Romans (i.e. the Catholic church) and they got their information translated, then mixed it with pagan values (Easter and Christmas) to sell it to the people, because Rome needed cash and saw that as the best way to generate revenue...........

And then, fast forward to modern times with the advent of the "mega church"................

How can you NOT see that Christianity has been used for money?

Then.........factor in the Christian Coalition in today's politics..........

How can you NOT see that Christianity is used for control?
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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Question...........if Christianity was founded by Romans (i.e. the Catholic church) and they got their information translated, then mixed it with pagan values (Easter and Christmas) to sell it to the people, because Rome needed cash and saw that as the best way to generate revenue...........

And then, fast forward to modern times with the advent of the "mega church"................

How can you NOT see that Christianity has been used for money?

Then.........factor in the Christian Coalition in today's politics..........

How can you NOT see that Christianity is used for control?

True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.
 

ABikerSailor

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Question...........if Christianity was founded by Romans (i.e. the Catholic church) and they got their information translated, then mixed it with pagan values (Easter and Christmas) to sell it to the people, because Rome needed cash and saw that as the best way to generate revenue...........

And then, fast forward to modern times with the advent of the "mega church"................

How can you NOT see that Christianity has been used for money?

Then.........factor in the Christian Coalition in today's politics..........

How can you NOT see that Christianity is used for control?

True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.

Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.
 

Marie888

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Question...........if Christianity was founded by Romans (i.e. the Catholic church) and they got their information translated, then mixed it with pagan values (Easter and Christmas) to sell it to the people, because Rome needed cash and saw that as the best way to generate revenue...........

And then, fast forward to modern times with the advent of the "mega church"................

How can you NOT see that Christianity has been used for money?

Then.........factor in the Christian Coalition in today's politics..........

How can you NOT see that Christianity is used for control?

True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.

Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.

What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.
 

ABikerSailor

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True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.

Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.

What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.

How can Christianity control people? Wanna talk about the people who are shooting abortion doctors in the name of Christianity? How about the people who are discriminating and denying gays equal rights for civil unions and marriage, because they believe homosexuality is a sin?

Wanna talk about the bigoted bullshit some pull on each other? Compare Northern and Southern Baptists.

You can't get that kind of bigotry without someone pulling the strings via the preachings.
 

Marie888

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Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.

What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.

How can Christianity control people? Wanna talk about the people who are shooting abortion doctors in the name of Christianity? How about the people who are discriminating and denying gays equal rights for civil unions and marriage, because they believe homosexuality is a sin?

Wanna talk about the bigoted bullshit some pull on each other? Compare Northern and Southern Baptists.

You can't get that kind of bigotry without someone pulling the strings via the preachings.


We both know if someone is "shooting" abortion doctors "in the name Christianity they aren't listening to Jesus Christ! Besides how is that "controlling" other people? It's just plain horribly wrong and a sin. Ever hear of false teachers and prophets in the Bible? That happens too and Satan uses it big time to deceive the hell out of people. (Harold Camping, Jim Jones and Manson, etc... as someone mentioned in another thread) The list goes on.

And homosexuality IS a sin according to the Bible. What, people can't have their faith in God and believe that something is a sin? And they can't exercise their right to vote for those they believe have the same values? Believing something is a sin doesn't mean alot of Christians don't accept others... just the "accepting" party has a conviction deep within whether they recognize it or not so they kick against it. We all have sinned and done things wrong - step up if you never have - I'll gladly give ya medal! lol

Keep it up!!! Before long freedom of religion will be wiped out soon, ya Nazi! :tongue: Goes back and forth ya know. Perhaps unbelievers are the ones trying to "control" believers?? Hmmm? LOL Sheesh! :tongue:
 
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Sky Dancer

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The only freedom of religion you're interested in is your own. I don't want to live in your theocracy.
 

tonystewart1

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The only freedom of religion you're interested in is your own. I don't want to live in your theocracy.

Any Christian who trys to use his "faith" to control the govt and deny others rights is not a person of faith. True Christians dont want to control anyone. We want to be the light of Christ to show his glory so that others may come to him of their own free will.

No real Christian wants to create a theorcracy. Only those who are use Christs name to spread evil or lies about Him.
 

tonystewart1

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Skydancer your problem is not with Marie or me or any other Christian, its with the govt. Its with those who lie to gain control over you life.
 

Iridescence

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True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.

Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.

What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.


:eusa_shhh:
 

Sky Dancer

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Skydancer your problem is not with Marie or me or any other Christian, its with the govt. Its with those who lie to gain control over you life.

You're right. I am against being controlled. I don't want to live in a theocracy.
 

Sky Dancer

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The only freedom of religion you're interested in is your own. I don't want to live in your theocracy.

Any Christian who trys to use his "faith" to control the govt and deny others rights is not a person of faith. True Christians dont want to control anyone. We want to be the light of Christ to show his glory so that others may come to him of their own free will.

No real Christian wants to create a theorcracy. Only those who are use Christs name to spread evil or lies about Him.

Beautiful post. I've met a true Christian in you.
 

Sky Dancer

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The only freedom of religion you're interested in is your own. I don't want to live in your theocracy.

Any Christian who trys to use his "faith" to control the govt and deny others rights is not a person of faith. True Christians dont want to control anyone. We want to be the light of Christ to show his glory so that others may come to him of their own free will.

No real Christian wants to create a theorcracy. Only those who are use Christs name to spread evil or lies about Him.

Beautiful post. I've met a true Christian in you. You have really touched my heart,
 

tonystewart1

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The only freedom of religion you're interested in is your own. I don't want to live in your theocracy.

Any Christian who trys to use his "faith" to control the govt and deny others rights is not a person of faith. True Christians dont want to control anyone. We want to be the light of Christ to show his glory so that others may come to him of their own free will.

No real Christian wants to create a theorcracy. Only those who are use Christs name to spread evil or lies about Him.

Beautiful post. I've met a true Christian in you.

Thank you.
 

AVG-JOE

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True.

Factor in also the Eastern Orthodox Church before the advent of Islam. Christianity – as with religion in general – is about control.

Of course it is. Back in the good old days (think 1100 through 1500), they scared people with the concept of hell as described by Dante in the Divine Comedy.

I mean..........going back to the same place every week, to be told what to do, or else you are going to be damned to hell?

One of the reasons that I don't trust Christians to tell me who God really is.

What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.

Christianity is but an example along the timeline. Religion is what is used to control the masses. Very productive in its day. Very productive. Almost as good as slavery in some human economies.
 

Steelplate

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What in the heck? How can Christianity control people? No person can make someone else truly believe in Jesus Christ. It's ALL on a personal basis.


.

How can Christianity control people? Wanna talk about the people who are shooting abortion doctors in the name of Christianity? How about the people who are discriminating and denying gays equal rights for civil unions and marriage, because they believe homosexuality is a sin?

Wanna talk about the bigoted bullshit some pull on each other? Compare Northern and Southern Baptists.

You can't get that kind of bigotry without someone pulling the strings via the preachings.


We both know if someone is "shooting" abortion doctors "in the name Christianity they aren't listening to Jesus Christ! Besides how is that "controlling" other people? It's just plain horribly wrong and a sin. Ever hear of false teachers and prophets in the Bible? That happens too and Satan uses it big time to deceive the hell out of people. (Harold Camping, Jim Jones and Manson, etc... as someone mentioned in another thread) The list goes on.

And homosexuality IS a sin according to the Bible. What, people can't have their faith in God and believe that something is a sin? And they can't exercise their right to vote for those they believe have the same values? Believing something is a sin doesn't mean alot of Christians don't accept others... just the "accepting" party has a conviction deep within whether they recognize it or not so they kick against it. We all have sinned and done things wrong - step up if you never have - I'll gladly give ya medal! lol

Keep it up!!! Before long freedom of religion will be wiped out soon, ya Nazi! :tongue: Goes back and forth ya know. Perhaps unbelievers are the ones trying to "control" believers?? Hmmm? LOL Sheesh! :tongue:

There isn't a problem believing Homosexuality is a sin. This is America, you can believe what you want. Just STFU about it.... simple as that. You are not without sin. Who are you to judge others?

The problem isn't about the biblical concept of sin. One sin is no better/worse than another in God's eyes. So... while some rail against homosexuality, others about abortion and yet others about addiction... they are committing an extra sin on top of the skeletons in their closets... they are judging.

unbelievers trying to control believers? Gimme a break. I am a life long Christian and have NEVER felt threatened by an Atheist. But for once in your life... put your feet in their shoes.

How would you feel if there was a predominant group of people in the country in which you live that felt that Barney the Purple Dinosaur was our God and savior, and most of the rules that we live by were from "Barney's Book of Secrets"? You, being a Christian would very much feel threatened by this country's obsession with Barney.... when You know for a fact that Barney is a dude in a purple dinosaur suit.

They don't care what we believe... they just don't want to be subject to the rules we try to live by.
 

AVG-JOE

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How can Christianity control people? Wanna talk about the people who are shooting abortion doctors in the name of Christianity? How about the people who are discriminating and denying gays equal rights for civil unions and marriage, because they believe homosexuality is a sin?

Wanna talk about the bigoted bullshit some pull on each other? Compare Northern and Southern Baptists.

You can't get that kind of bigotry without someone pulling the strings via the preachings.


We both know if someone is "shooting" abortion doctors "in the name Christianity they aren't listening to Jesus Christ! Besides how is that "controlling" other people? It's just plain horribly wrong and a sin. Ever hear of false teachers and prophets in the Bible? That happens too and Satan uses it big time to deceive the hell out of people. (Harold Camping, Jim Jones and Manson, etc... as someone mentioned in another thread) The list goes on.

And homosexuality IS a sin according to the Bible. What, people can't have their faith in God and believe that something is a sin? And they can't exercise their right to vote for those they believe have the same values? Believing something is a sin doesn't mean alot of Christians don't accept others... just the "accepting" party has a conviction deep within whether they recognize it or not so they kick against it. We all have sinned and done things wrong - step up if you never have - I'll gladly give ya medal! lol

Keep it up!!! Before long freedom of religion will be wiped out soon, ya Nazi! :tongue: Goes back and forth ya know. Perhaps unbelievers are the ones trying to "control" believers?? Hmmm? LOL Sheesh! :tongue:

There isn't a problem believing Homosexuality is a sin. This is America, you can believe what you want. Just STFU about it.... simple as that. You are not without sin. Who are you to judge others?

The problem isn't about the biblical concept of sin. One sin is no better/worse than another in God's eyes. So... while some rail against homosexuality, others about abortion and yet others about addiction... they are committing an extra sin on top of the skeletons in their closets... they are judging.

unbelievers trying to control believers? Gimme a break. I am a life long Christian and have NEVER felt threatened by an Atheist. But for once in your life... put your feet in their shoes.

How would you feel if there was a predominant group of people in the country in which you live that felt that Barney the Purple Dinosaur was our God and savior, and most of the rules that we live by were from "Barney's Book of Secrets"? You, being a Christian would very much feel threatened by this country's obsession with Barney.... when You know for a fact that Barney is a dude in a purple dinosaur suit.

They don't care what we believe... they just don't want to be subject to the rules we try to live by.

Some of the rules.

Our secular nation shares a LOT of rules with many other successful methods of human organization. Muslims have rules against killing each other and they can claim a similar historic rate of success in both encouragement and enforcement as any other organization composed during our history.

Atheists simply want rules that are simple and flexible enough for our changing world that encourage us to play nicely together like 'don't kill', 'don't steal', 'honor your contracts', and stuff like that.

Rules defining marriage and rules protecting me from myself are insulting.

Rules defining marriage and rules protecting me from myself based solely on the teachings of a religion or other organization are very insulting.
 
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ABikerSailor

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You know........Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, however, there are MANY other faiths where they look at it as another state of being (Hindu for one).

Now, if this is a country where you are free to practice your own religion, why is it that almost all Christians I've met tell me there is only 1 way to God, and that is only via Jesus Christ.

What about the Jews? Don't they get to talk and spend time with God? After all, they knew Him first.

What about the Buddhists and Taoists? Don't they get to talk and spend time with God via observing Creation?

Or is it that all Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, etc must convert over to Christianity or else risk being burned forever in hell?

THAT is the kind of control that most Christians try to push over on me that I despise, believe as I do, or you're consigned to hell forever.
 

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