Abortion

[SweetSue92]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

 

[Taz]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

 

[SweetSue92]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don't think the fetus is a "living human" until it is born? What is this, 1850? Have you seen 3 and 4D ultrasounds, are you at all up on the science? Because that's scientifically ignorant. Simply ignorant. And it matters not what you think about the "soul", what your personal opinion is. If there is a heartbeat and the being is human and can survive with technology, you don't have the RIGHT to say whether that human has a "soul" or not and so can just DIE. Or whether humans with disabilities would be better off DEAD.

Seriously...

Listen to yourself.

 

[ding]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

 

[Taz]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don't think the fetus is a "living human" until it is born? What is this, 1850? Have you seen 3 and 4D ultrasounds, are you at all up on the science? Because that's scientifically ignorant. Simply ignorant. And it matters not what you think about the "soul", what your personal opinion is. If there is a heartbeat and the being is human and can survive with technology, you don't have the RIGHT to say whether that human has a "soul" or not and so can just DIE. Or whether humans with disabilities would be better off DEAD.

Seriously...

Listen to yourself.

You're talking about viable fetuses outside the womb. So you don't include tiny fetuses that aren't viable outside the womb or that have no heartbeat yet. Interesting where you draw the line.

As for severely deformed and retarded babies that have no chance to have a pain-free life and need multiple surgeries constantly just to survive in more pain, yes, better to abort.

 

[Taz]

God approves of abortion otherwise spontaneous abortions in nature wouldn't happen.

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

 

[ding]

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

 

[Taz]

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

 

[ding]

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

 

[Taz]

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

There are tons of stories about people describing a neighbourhood that they've never been to half way across the world. And the person who would know all these things died the day the new person was born. Fascinating stuff. Or kids who are born knowing how to play the piano expertly... Sure, not rock solid proof, but way more than you can prove about your god of the book.

 

[ding]

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

There are tons of stories about people describing a neighbourhood that they've never been to half way across the world. And the person who would know all these things died the day the new person was born. Fascinating stuff. Or kids who are born knowing how to play the piano expertly... Sure, not rock solid proof, but way more than you can prove about your god of the book.

Do you have any proof of their authenticity?

 

[SweetSue92]

Right because there's no difference between death and murder.

See how easy that is? I just change a word!! My 101 year old grandma didn't DIE last year, she was murdered!!! Wow, easy and fun to play around with words!!

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don't think the fetus is a "living human" until it is born? What is this, 1850? Have you seen 3 and 4D ultrasounds, are you at all up on the science? Because that's scientifically ignorant. Simply ignorant. And it matters not what you think about the "soul", what your personal opinion is. If there is a heartbeat and the being is human and can survive with technology, you don't have the RIGHT to say whether that human has a "soul" or not and so can just DIE. Or whether humans with disabilities would be better off DEAD.

Seriously...

Listen to yourself.

You're talking about viable fetuses outside the womb. So you don't include tiny fetuses that aren't viable outside the womb or that have no heartbeat yet. Interesting where you draw the line.

As for severely deformed and retarded babies that have no chance to have a pain-free life and need multiple surgeries constantly just to survive in more pain, yes, better to abort.

Interesting standard. True for born humans too? Or are you inconsistent there as well?

 

[ding]

You don’t believe in a soul. Do you have scientific proof of a soul?

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

There are tons of stories about people describing a neighbourhood that they've never been to half way across the world. And the person who would know all these things died the day the new person was born. Fascinating stuff. Or kids who are born knowing how to play the piano expertly... Sure, not rock solid proof, but way more than you can prove about your god of the book.

Do you know what the Hindu’s believe?

 

[Taz]

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

There are tons of stories about people describing a neighbourhood that they've never been to half way across the world. And the person who would know all these things died the day the new person was born. Fascinating stuff. Or kids who are born knowing how to play the piano expertly... Sure, not rock solid proof, but way more than you can prove about your god of the book.

Do you have any proof of their authenticity?

So your claim is that they are all lying? There are thousands of accounts like that, and they can check out what they say. And if it's documented that that person has never been to that part of the world... And what about a toddler who knows math or piano... How do they fake that?

 

[Taz]

So your god can make that happen but we can't? Says who? You?

How about the law. No one gets punished for natural death; it happens. You do get punished for murder. Abortion is clearly murder. Someday humans will look back on the fact that we (somehow) tolerate it now the way we look back on torture in the dark ages.

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born. In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

You don't think the fetus is a "living human" until it is born? What is this, 1850? Have you seen 3 and 4D ultrasounds, are you at all up on the science? Because that's scientifically ignorant. Simply ignorant. And it matters not what you think about the "soul", what your personal opinion is. If there is a heartbeat and the being is human and can survive with technology, you don't have the RIGHT to say whether that human has a "soul" or not and so can just DIE. Or whether humans with disabilities would be better off DEAD.

Seriously...

Listen to yourself.

You're talking about viable fetuses outside the womb. So you don't include tiny fetuses that aren't viable outside the womb or that have no heartbeat yet. Interesting where you draw the line.

As for severely deformed and retarded babies that have no chance to have a pain-free life and need multiple surgeries constantly just to survive in more pain, yes, better to abort.

Interesting standard. True for born humans too? Or are you inconsistent there as well?

No, I wouldn't euthanize those already born, but for some of them, I would offer them assisted suicide. One father I read about had a daughter who was severely deformed and retarded and need painful surgeries just to continue to live in constant pain. The father couldn't have that for his daughter so he put her in his van and did the exhaust pipe thing. He got 10 years for that. It shouldn't have to be like that.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abortion
⁜→ Taz, et al,

Yeah, I agree to a point.

(DIRECT QUESTION UP FRONT)

What biological-machine function turns on the qualities of a "Human Being" (humanity) that without them ⟴ you are not a "human being?"

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born.

(COMMENT)

This is based on what? I say that not to be argumentative, but to understand what constitutes a "human" from other species. That is "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "life."

Do the "black box" experiment. Put a newborn human in a black box, and then put a newborn chimpanzee in a black box right beside it. Then describe the essential characteristic deferences in "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "human life" between the two. Is the ability to "self-reflect" or "awareness" part of that determination?

I do not disagree with your final assessment; I just don't understand how you arrive at those conclusions.

In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

(COMMENT)

" Soul! " What is a "soul?" Legally and Medically, what are a sound and valid definition of a "soul." I suggest that a "soul" is a faith-based concept; not a scientifically or medically valid concept.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Taz]

No, but gravity existed way before it was discovered. I may be agnostic about a god that wants us to follow a book, but that doesn't mean that I can't have spiritual leanings, like re-incarnation, of which there seems to be possibly some evidence for.

You literally accept one and reject the other on faith.

Actually, there seems to be some evidence for re-incarnation, I take nothing on faith, I've already gotten burned doing that.

Your standards are inconsistent.

There are tons of stories about people describing a neighbourhood that they've never been to half way across the world. And the person who would know all these things died the day the new person was born. Fascinating stuff. Or kids who are born knowing how to play the piano expertly... Sure, not rock solid proof, but way more than you can prove about your god of the book.

Do you know what the Hindu’s believe?

That extra-terrestrials are our real gods.

 

[Taz]

RE: Abortion
⁜→ Taz, et al,

Yeah, I agree to a point.

(DIRECT QUESTION UP FRONT)

What biological-machine function turns on the qualities of a "Human Being" (humanity) that without them ⟴ you are not a "human being?"

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born.

(COMMENT)

This is based on what? I say that not to be argumentative, but to understand what constitutes a "human" from other species. That is "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "life."

Do the "black box" experiment. Put a newborn human in a black box, and then put a newborn chimpanzee in a black box right beside it. Then describe the essential characteristic deferences in "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "human life." between the two. Is the ability to "self-reflect" or "awareness" part of that determination?

I do not disagree with your final assessment; I just don't understand how you arrive at those conclusions.

In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

(COMMENT)

" Soul! " What is a "soul?" Legally and Medically, what are a sound and valid definition of a "soul." I suggest that a "soul" is a faith-based concept; not a scientifically or medically valid.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't understand your chimp in a box thing. But here, I'll give you an example of what I mean. Nobody remembers being in the womb, so no consciousness yet, which some people equate with the soul. So until consciousness, not a real human yet.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Abortion
⁜→ Taz, et al,

Yes, It is a hard concept.

Yeah, I agree to a point.

(DIRECT QUESTION UP FRONT)

What biological-machine function turns on the qualities of a "Human Being" (humanity) that without them ⟴ you are not a "human being?"

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born.

(COMMENT)

This is based on what? I say that not to be argumentative, but to understand what constitutes a "human" from other species. That is "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "life."

Do the "black box" experiment. Put a newborn human in a black box, and then put a newborn chimpanzee in a black box right beside it. Then describe the essential characteristic deferences in "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "human life." between the two. Is the ability to "self-reflect" or "awareness" part of that determination?

I do not disagree with your final assessment; I just don't understand how you arrive at those conclusions.

In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

(COMMENT)

" Soul! " What is a "soul?" Legally and Medically, what are a sound and valid definition of a "soul." I suggest that a "soul" is a faith-based concept; not a scientifically or medically valid.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't understand your chimp in a box thing. But here, I'll give you an example of what I mean. Nobody remembers being in the womb, so no consciousness yet, which some people equate with the soul. So until consciousness, not a real human yet.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Black Box is the case where you cannot tell the difference (in terms of "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → the ability to "self-reflect" or "awareness") between a newborn human and a newborn chimp. We simply cannot explain the qualitities and characteristics of "life."

(REMEMBER)

The issue of a human having a "soul" (something that is supernatural) is a "faith-based concept."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[SweetSue92]

RE: Abortion
⁜→ Taz, et al,

Yeah, I agree to a point.

(DIRECT QUESTION UP FRONT)

What biological-machine function turns on the qualities of a "Human Being" (humanity) that without them ⟴ you are not a "human being?"

Most people don't see it like that. I don't think that the fetus is a living human until it is born.

(COMMENT)

This is based on what? I say that not to be argumentative, but to understand what constitutes a "human" from other species. That is "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "life."

Do the "black box" experiment. Put a newborn human in a black box, and then put a newborn chimpanzee in a black box right beside it. Then describe the essential characteristic deferences in "sentience," → "consciousness" → and → "human life." between the two. Is the ability to "self-reflect" or "awareness" part of that determination?

I do not disagree with your final assessment; I just don't understand how you arrive at those conclusions.

In the sense that a fetus doesn't yet have a soul. In fact, I think that it's better to abort some fetuses than let them be born, like the badly deformed, for example.

(COMMENT)

" Soul! " What is a "soul?" Legally and Medically, what are a sound and valid definition of a "soul." I suggest that a "soul" is a faith-based concept; not a scientifically or medically valid.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't understand your chimp in a box thing. But here, I'll give you an example of what I mean. Nobody remembers being in the womb, so no consciousness yet, which some people equate with the soul. So until consciousness, not a real human yet.

Witness the "moral landscape" without God.