Abortion as Murder.

[whitehall]

Using the word "botched" as in botched abortion is just rhetoric to muddy the water. Dr. Kermit is accused of killing at least seven full term infants as they lay squirming on the table. The abortions were "legal" but killing live babies outside the womb is murder.

 

[JBeukema]

My youngest son was born when I was just 26 weeks pregnant.

What's your point?


btw, 26 > 12

 

[JBeukema]

For those who claim abortion is a medical procedure and is not killing an innocent human being I have a question.

Pretty self-explanatory.

You're makin' somethin' out of nothin'.

So in other words you can't answer the question. Got it. Pretty simple really, you're deflecting to nothing.

You're an idiot.

 

[JBeukema]

[
There is actually NO SUCH THING as a medical need to deliberately kill an unborn child in order to save the life of the mother. In this day and age to pretend that is a legitimate medical situation is one of THE biggest lies going. Doctors will try to save the life of BOTH of their patients.

Exactly. Try. Sometimes you have to make a decision.

Medical Versus Surgical Abortion | Patient Education | UCSF Medical Center


At <12 weeks, there is no meaningful difference. The only difference is the method. The end result is the same in every instance.

Women usually have heavy bleeding for several hours and bleed like a period for an average of two weeks.

Could be a serious concern for those with bleeding disorders.

 

[Bern80]

Alot of women get abortions because they can not afford to provide for another mouth, are you or any of the other anti abortion crowd willing to step up and do it? who is supposed to care for these kids?

The parent is supposed to take responsibility for their actions. They made a choice, lots of choices actually. The chose to have sex, they chose to not use protection, they chose to not use the morning after pill, they chose to not get an early term abortion. The only person not making a choice are the people you say should have to adopt children if they're anti-abortion. You don't get to hold other people responsible for your bad decisions, period.

 

[High_Gravity]

Alot of women get abortions because they can not afford to provide for another mouth, are you or any of the other anti abortion crowd willing to step up and do it? who is supposed to care for these kids?

The parent is supposed to take responsibility for their actions. They made a choice, lots of choices actually. The chose to have sex, they chose to not use protection, they chose to not use the morning after pill, they chose to not get an early term abortion. The only person not making a choice are the people you say should have to adopt children if they're anti-abortion. You don't get to hold other people responsible for your bad decisions, period.

So your telling me you don't want to be responsible for feeding and clothing the kids? I understand, taking care of children is very expensive isn't it? and from what you are saying, you don't want any financial responsibility for kids that are not yours, I understand. What you are saying is true, people need to responsible for their actions and need to take precautions when they have sex but this is far from a perfect world, women get pregnant unexpectedly everyday, and they have been since the beginning of time. We are never going to get to a point where everyone is responsible and plans to have children. Abortion needs to be available because even though you disagree with it, you just basically said right now you want nothing to do with providing financial support for these unwanted children.

 

[geauxtohell]

For those who claim abortion is a medical procedure and is not killing an innocent human being I have a question.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors.

would these children have been any less viable had this piece of human trash cut them up in utero as opposed to after birth? If Roe is the standard, and the standard it sets is "viability", how is a fetus, any fetus, unviable after about 4 1/2 months of pregnancy? All of them are viable given proper medical care, so what is the difference between murdering them in utero or out?

Philly Abortion Doctor Facing 8 Counts Of Murder CBS Philly – News, Sports, Weather, Traffic and the Best of Philadelphia

I predict the whole abortion issue will be settled in this thread.

Good thing you thought of these points and made this entirely novel thread.

 

[Bern80]

Alot of women get abortions because they can not afford to provide for another mouth, are you or any of the other anti abortion crowd willing to step up and do it? who is supposed to care for these kids?

The parent is supposed to take responsibility for their actions. They made a choice, lots of choices actually. The chose to have sex, they chose to not use protection, they chose to not use the morning after pill, they chose to not get an early term abortion. The only person not making a choice are the people you say should have to adopt children if they're anti-abortion. You don't get to hold other people responsible for your bad decisions, period.

So your telling me you don't want to be responsible for feeding and clothing the kids? I understand, taking care of children is very expensive isn't it? and from what you are saying, you don't want any financial responsibility for kids that are not yours, I understand. What you are saying is true, people need to responsible for their actions and need to take precautions when they have sex but this is far from a perfect world, women get pregnant unexpectedly everyday, and they have been since the beginning of time. We are never going to get to a point where everyone is responsible and plans to have children. Abortion needs to be available because even though you disagree with it, you just basically said right now you want nothing to do with providing financial support for these unwanted children.

That's the thing I don't disagree with abortion legally.....up to a point. I used to be super anti-abortion. None at anytime for any reason. Now, the more I like it the more I think in terms of abortion anyway Roe v. Wade got it right. My problem is the killing of innocent people. I believe at some point in a pregnancy a fetus is biologically a human being, a person. There is also a stage in a pregnancy where that sack of cells is clearly not a person. I don't have any legal issues with allowing abortions during that time period. I may find it irresponsible, but the harsh reality is all your doing is expelling a collection of cells. The point is it takes an awful lot of bad choices to get to the latter portion of a pregnancy where you're put in the position of having to choose to kill an innocent life. And at some point people need to be held accountable.

 

[High_Gravity]

The parent is supposed to take responsibility for their actions. They made a choice, lots of choices actually. The chose to have sex, they chose to not use protection, they chose to not use the morning after pill, they chose to not get an early term abortion. The only person not making a choice are the people you say should have to adopt children if they're anti-abortion. You don't get to hold other people responsible for your bad decisions, period.

So your telling me you don't want to be responsible for feeding and clothing the kids? I understand, taking care of children is very expensive isn't it? and from what you are saying, you don't want any financial responsibility for kids that are not yours, I understand. What you are saying is true, people need to responsible for their actions and need to take precautions when they have sex but this is far from a perfect world, women get pregnant unexpectedly everyday, and they have been since the beginning of time. We are never going to get to a point where everyone is responsible and plans to have children. Abortion needs to be available because even though you disagree with it, you just basically said right now you want nothing to do with providing financial support for these unwanted children.

That's the thing I don't disagree with abortion legally.....up to a point. I used to be super anti-abortion. None at anytime for any reason. Now, the more I like it the more I think in terms of abortion anyway Roe v. Wade got it right. My problem is the killing of innocent people. I believe at some point in a pregnancy a fetus is biologically a human being, a person. There is also a stage in a pregnancy where that sack of cells is clearly not a person. I don't have any legal issues with allowing abortions during that time period. I may find it irresponsible, but the harsh reality is all your doing is expelling a collection of cells. The point is it takes an awful lot of bad choices to get to the latter portion of a pregnancy where you're put in the position of having to choose to kill an innocent life. And at some point people need to be held accountable.

Oh I definently agree people need to be held accountable, from what I understand most women who do get abortions have a heavy weight on their soul afterwards.

 

[frazzledgear]

You're going to have a little trouble posting that "law" since the congress has never passed one. You also have no understanding of Roe whatsoever, the test is not birth, it's viability. Whether or not the fetus is in utero or not is irrelevant.

You people got off track. This isn't about someone who killed a viable FETUS -an unborn child who would live if born at that time. He forced the baby to be born FIRST knowing it would likely survive its birth and live. When they did live and were breathing, living citizens of this country with the same right to keep their life this guy had -he MURDERED THEM. The fact he forced them to be born early is IRRELEVANT. They were living, breathing children who survived their premature birth he forced on them -and because they didn't die from being born early -he killed them by stabbing them with scissors and cutting their spinal cords. AFTER they born and were BREATHING, LIVING CHILDREN. THAT is why he was arrested. THAT is MURDER. He wasn't arrested because he killed a viable fetus while it was inside the mother -but because he killed living, breathing babies AFTER they were born!

Not off track at all as the question is how it is any different legally to kill an unborn child in the person of a viable fetus whether or not the child is still in the womb. Does where a child is when you kill it make that much of a difference? certainly the child is no different, in either case it is viable. This will test Roe and may force the courts to revisit it if for no other reason than to at minimum update its mechanics to reflect current medical technology regarding viability.

This case won't test Roe v. Wade any more than advances in medical technology did. The people who think it is fine and dandy to kill human beings if they just get to them when they are very young -always will. It isn't fine with me at all. I consider abortion to be nothing but murder, especially since I had an extremely premature baby born younger than many of this monster's victims and know they are living individuals and human beings. Those who insist it isn't murder are just deluding themselves -and as someone pointed out, the only people who support abortion are ones who successfully escaped that death themselves.

But this guy can't even hide behind a lie that he was doing abortions! Simply forcing a baby to be born is NOT an abortion -it is just inducing birth. It is what he did in order to get LIVE victims for his pleasure.

This guy is nothing but a serial killer -one who put his trophies right out in plain sight on his shelves. The only difference between him and any abortionist is he likes to see his victims up close and personal while he snuffs them. It wasn't enough for him to kill them when he couldn't see them squirm, cry out and die -and yes babies that age absolutely DO cry! He deliberately chose this method because he LIKED IT, he got a thrill from it -or he would never have done this more than once. Who but someone who enjoyed it would EVER want to hold a breathing baby while stabbing it to death and then do it again to another baby and to another and another. Then cut off their feet and line them up to remind him of the pleasure he got from his little victims or put their entire corpses in a jar so they could watch him as he forced his next victim out of its mother so he could hold a breathing baby in his hands while he killed again and again.

He got away with it this long because of his choice in victims and the fact women were willing participants to offer up their own child for his amusement for him to kill and let him take whatever trophies he wanted from their corpses. And disgustingly there are people even on this thread who even after knowing this guy was just forcing babies to be born early just so he could get up close and personal and look them in the face while he killed them -who will still insist its fine and dandy to kill ANY baby at this stage of life no matter which side of the birth canal they may be on. Revealing who the monsters among us really are.

 

[Tank]

Have any of you anti abortion people even adopted an orphan? or even have a foster kid? I doubt it.

Who else would be adopting children then the group who is trying to save them?

 

[frazzledgear]

Have any of you anti abortion people even adopted an orphan? or even have a foster kid? I doubt it.

Are you for real? What a dumb ass question. Your question which only reveals the depth of your own moral bankruptcy and you are essentially saying "no one can legitimately oppose the murder of a very young human being unless they are personally willing to raise and care for them". I oppose killing children after they are born and at the age of 2, 4, 12, 15 and right on up to adulthood. So that must also mean that unless I am PERSONALLY willing to adopt at least some of them at all these different ages too I would also be a "hypocrite" to oppose their murder by those who want them dead. I guess that means unless I am willing to share my home with a pack of strangers I can't oppose the murder of adults either! Sorry but my personal opposition to murdering human beings of any age NEVER hinges on ANYTHING else but the fact they are human beings. Their AGE at the time of their murder is irrelevant. But apparently a real sticking point for YOU.

(And please liberals, understand what a hypocrite really is and use the word correctly. A hypocrite is someone who says it is wrong if YOU were to do something, but it is NOT wrong if they do it. It isn't even someone who did it themselves but says it was wrong when they did it too. Which makes sense since all humans are fallible and make mistakes and everyone has done something they know was wrong and doesn't make it ok just because they did it. Someone who shoplifted but said it was wrong of him to do is NOT being a hypocrite if he says it is wrong if you do it too. Which is why someone is only a hypocrite if they say it is only wrong if you were to do it, but NOT wrong if they do it.)

Again, forcing a baby to be born is NOT abortion. It was just inducing the baby's birth and at this stage he KNEW they would be born alive. Just like if the mother had gone to the hospital and birth was induced -a living child would be born too. Except THAT baby would be put in the nursery instead of being held in someone's hand so they could look at its face up close and personal while stabbing it to death. This man forced them to be born so he could hold a breathing child in his hands and see it up close and personal while he murdered the child. Pretending this was a "botched" abortion is something you are telling yourself to make yourself feel better about supporting a man who was really just a serial killer. No different from someone who sneaks into a hospital nursery and stabbed babies to death there. The only difference is the mothers brought their child to him -where he forced them to be born ALIVE and then while they were breathing, squirming living babies -he killed them. Which is why he was arrested for MURDER and not for performing "late term abortions" which is a totally different crime in his state.

 

[High_Gravity]

Have any of you anti abortion people even adopted an orphan? or even have a foster kid? I doubt it.

Are you for real? What a dumb ass question. Your question which only reveals the depth of your own moral bankruptcy and you are essentially saying "no one can legitimately oppose the murder of a very young human being unless they are personally willing to raise and care for them". I oppose killing children after they are born and at the age of 2, 4, 12, 15 and right on up to adulthood. So that must also mean that unless I am PERSONALLY willing to adopt at least some of them at all these different ages too I would also be a "hypocrite" to oppose their murder by those who want them dead. I guess that means unless I am willing to share my home with a pack of strangers I can't oppose the murder of adults either! Sorry but my personal opposition to murdering human beings of any age NEVER hinges on ANYTHING else but the fact they are human beings. Their AGE at the time of their murder is irrelevant. But apparently a real sticking point for YOU.

(And please liberals, understand what a hypocrite really is and use the word correctly. A hypocrite is someone who says it is wrong if YOU were to do something, but it is NOT wrong if they do it. It isn't even someone who did it themselves but says it was wrong when they did it too. Which makes sense since all humans are fallible and make mistakes and everyone has done something they know was wrong and doesn't make it ok just because they did it. Someone who shoplifted but said it was wrong of him to do is NOT being a hypocrite if he says it is wrong if you do it too. Which is why someone is only a hypocrite if they say it is only wrong if you were to do it, but NOT wrong if they do it.)

Again, forcing a baby to be born is NOT abortion. It was just inducing the baby's birth and at this stage he KNEW they would be born alive. Just like if the mother had gone to the hospital and birth was induced -a living child would be born too. Except THAT baby would be put in the nursery instead of being held in someone's hand so they could look at its face up close and personal while stabbing it to death. This man forced them to be born so he could hold a breathing child in his hands and see it up close and personal while he murdered the child. Pretending this was a "botched" abortion is something you are telling yourself to make yourself feel better about supporting a man who was really just a serial killer. No different from someone who sneaks into a hospital nursery and stabbed babies to death there. The only difference is the mothers brought their child to him -where he forced them to be born ALIVE and then while they were breathing, squirming living babies -he killed them. Which is why he was arrested for MURDER and not for performing "late term abortions" which is a totally different crime in his state.

Wah wah wah, have you even adopted any children? do any foster children stay with you? what? no? than shut your fucking mouth, you are against abortion but you want no responsibility for the children if they are born, so go ahead and fuck yourself. I love how you anti abortion idiots back peddle on that by saying "well its not my problem people should be more responsibe". Whatever, fuck you, fuck your rhetoric and fuck the horse you rode in on.

 

[High_Gravity]

Have any of you anti abortion people even adopted an orphan? or even have a foster kid? I doubt it.

Who else would be adopting children then the group who is trying to save them?

Thats the point, all these anti abortion fanatics like frazzlegear for instance are against abortion but have done nothing to save any children, if someone dropped a baby on their door step they would flip the fuck out and not know what to do, and probably just drop the baby off at a hospital and be done with it, their fucking hypocrites.

 

[Bern80]

Have any of you anti abortion people even adopted an orphan? or even have a foster kid? I doubt it.

Who else would be adopting children then the group who is trying to save them?

Thats the point, all these anti abortion fanatics like frazzlegear for instance are against abortion but have done nothing to save any children, if someone dropped a baby on their door step they would flip the fuck out and not know what to do, and probably just drop the baby off at a hospital and be done with it, their fucking hypocrites.

No they're not. A person opposed to abortion who doesn't want another child is different than a person getting an abortion because they don't want another child. One person took the necesary steps to keep a pregnancy from happening, the other did not.

 

[High_Gravity]

Who else would be adopting children then the group who is trying to save them?

Thats the point, all these anti abortion fanatics like frazzlegear for instance are against abortion but have done nothing to save any children, if someone dropped a baby on their door step they would flip the fuck out and not know what to do, and probably just drop the baby off at a hospital and be done with it, their fucking hypocrites.

No they're not. A person opposed to abortion who doesn't want another child is different than a person getting an abortion because they don't want another child. One person took the necesary steps to keep a pregnancy from happening, the other did not.

Yes they are hypocrites, because if an anti abortion fanatic moron like frazzlegreed was in a situation where a woman refused to get an abortion but needed help raising the child, he would refuse to help, because in reality he is a selfish little cock who doesn't care about anyone outside of himself and maybe his family. No one really cares about these babies that are being aborted, I don't see any of you volunteering to take them.

 

[rikules]

I noticed everyone who supports abortion, has already been born.

i've noticed that a lot of people who OPPOSE abortion spend a LOT of time sharpening their guns getting ready for the next civil war so they can kill as many liberals and democrats as possible.....

 

[High_Gravity]

I noticed everyone who supports abortion, has already been born.

i've noticed that a lot of people who OPPOSE abortion spend a LOT of time sharpening their guns getting ready for the next civil war so they can kill as many liberals and democrats as possible.....

Exactly.

 

[mammastevens]

The current effort to repeal "Obamacare" is actually aimed at broader restrictions on

abortion, not Obama’s health care law.

 

[Bern80]

its not murder.
fetus do not have the protection of the state.so that angle is a fail.
lets say they did..its still not the state nor yours business.
i feel the sameway about drugs,food,and seatbelts.
its not my problem.

Unfortunately for your argument the state's basis is not a scientific one. It's a legal one. If you have TO tell yourself you're not committing murder through late term abortions because the state doesn't recognize a child in the womb as a human being, that ought to tell you something about the weakness of your argument.

It's also a little disturbing that you you think something that is alive is comparable to things that aren't.