Zone1 A Simple Experiment That Can Demonstrate WHY You Don't See Racism While Others Do

[Lisa558]

1. In my opinion (opinion!), the "racism" problem is insoluble.

2. Maybe the OP's prospective landlady did not like African Americans (or Asian Americans or Hispanic Americans for that matter).

3. But maybe the landlady lied about a vacancy because she was afraid of losing her job and apartment house.

4. Maybe she has non-Caucasian friends; maybe she patronizes non-American food restaurants; and maybe she has even insisted that her church welcome non-Caucasian worshippers.

5. But she is terrified that if the OP moves in, then others of that ethnicity will move in.

6. And she is terrified that soon some new tenants' relatives will move in; there will be loud parties; drug dealers will come around; dangerous dogs will roam around, etc.

7. And there will occur "white flight."

8. After all, we know that African American celebrities almost all leave their family neighborhoods for nicer and safer areas.

9. In my opinion (opinion!), African Americans will always be subject to discrimination -- even when Caucasians are reduced to a small minority (sometime in the next century) and Hispanics become the largest single group and possibly the majority of Americans.

10. Yes, it is very sad. But -- as you young people say -- it is what it is!

This is true. Same with Jew-haters, as there will always be antisemitism.

The best thing to do is rise above it. Do things that will lead to a successful life - like refraining from having babies before marriage, make sure you’ve been educated or trained for a career or trade, obey laws, work hard, and respect authorities (be they your boss at work or cops on the beat).

Of course, one must report hate crimes that targeted you, if they happen. I wish I could have proved who it was who scratched JEW on the hood of our brand-new car.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Did that happen to you?

Of course not

You live in the past and vicariously through your ancestors

Bullshit, do you accuse those who reenact the Civil War as living vicariously through their ancestors? No you don't and you probably don't see fault in it and contribute it to just having fun, right? No different than ComiCon

No one is living vicariously through our ancestors we just happen to know a lot about them because some of them have lived at the same time as we have. My mother and one of her aunts who was married to Captain John Daniels' brother, as well as other family members all remember him because the United States for the most part didn't, let alone acknowledge their service to our country until what 2007 when President Bush presented them with the Congressional Medal of Honor. Of course my grandfather didn't live long enough to see the army desegregated or to see an African American as the commander in chief of the military.

I don't know how young you are but 2007 was not that long ago. More importantly my taxes to this date, are used in ways that are harmful to me specifically and to others who are similarly situated as myself. Nothing has changed on that front. Why should my taxes be used to send to the people of Ukraine? Did you know that when the war first began that some of the talking heads were commiserating and asking how could this be, these are not Africans, or Middle Easterners, they're white people. Is that why we're throwing money at a problem that could best be solved by dealing with the perpetrator of the problem?

 

[katsteve2012]

Numerous off topic posts and personal attacks have been removed from this thread.

Please stay on topic, and adhere to Zone 1 guidelines, or risk being thread banned.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I don't know anything about you. So when you said that you had read cases, I assumed that it was due to studying law, or studying about the law as part of studying the civil rights movement. I didn't assume that you were involved with the justice system in a negative way. Why would I stereotype you that way?

For me as well. That's the learning process.

You do not understand me correctly at all, then. I said nothing about what "most other Black people," see, and especially not that Black people are suspect.

For one, I don't know that you are Black, you may be another poser. You may even be the same poser, for all I know. But I give you the benefit of the doubt until you prove yourself to be a fraud as another has.

More importantly, if I were to assume a set of beliefs that apply to most Black people, I would base it on the Black people I know IRL, not random internet posters. The ones I know are teachers and they mainly talk about how better to get children to read and do math, and secondarily about their family and other personal aspects. They do not incessantly complain about racism being everywhere.

My position is that being constantly exposed to a steady stream of propaganda about how racist the American system is can make some people see racism where there is no racism, such as in the natural tendency to be leery of strangers in public, or to judge people by their behavior and their dress, or see continuing racism in the ill effects of past racism.

If I own a store and a couple of guys walk in talking loudly, with pants below their butts, hoodies and masks, and walking aimlessly around the store, you bet I'm keeping my eyes on them until they leave which I would hope would be soon. That would happen if they were albinos from Sweden, nothing to do with skin color.

It seems that the reply button isn't working properly because it doesn't seem to what the commenter is responding to.

So I do have a couple of questions after reading your response:

1. Do you automatically assume everyone you encounter online is a "poser" and what do you mean by poser? Are you referring to guys pretending to be women in order to attract them and string them along or just anyone pretending to be something that they're not? Like a person pretending to be a sexual assault victim in order to garner sympathy or to be a member of a minority group in order to garner sympathy for their plight as a victim? People like that? Or just people who lie about their age, height & weight, occupation, marital status, etc?

2. Do you consider investigative reports as "propaganda" because next to the news media, that's where I get most of my information, government cases that have been adjudicated, from the notes and other documents created by the investigators, from FOIA requests, declassified government documents, etc.

3. How do you conduct your due diligence to determine if something you've seen or read is true or not? How do you measure the relative certainty that the things you believe are true? What measuring stick do you use.

4. While I understand determining what you know about Black people by those Black people you actually know, why is it that you all always resort to the stereotype of the baggy pants, loud talking, blah blah as representative of "Black people in general" even though you just denied that you were referring to "all other" or perhaps "any other" black people?

5. There are certain types of people that make me uncomfortable. There are certain types of behaviors that make me uncomfortable and most of those are by design.

6. Regarding seeing racism where there is no racism, I gambled and rolled the dice earlier this evening when MizMolly referred to IM2 as an asshole, and her comment last I looked was still there, yet every time IM2 or I lose our temper with the constant ignorance that is on display here particularly by members who only come here to toll my threads as evidenced by their behavior on 3 separate attempts to take down a thread I started that excluded them from the discussion due to their previous disruptive behavior. They threw a temper tantrum until they got their way and i was even threatened by one of the moderators who then carried out said threat by banning my IP address from the site.

When the white member of this site are allowed to behave in ways that violate the rules they are rarely if ever disciplined yet let one of the Black members here lose our temper after being subjected to post after post of idiotic, biased and derogatory comments and we are immediately sanctioned.

The legal theory is called disparate treatment according to the EEOC in an employment environment and is usually found when one person or group of people are treated more favorably than another group of people. What we see on the job site is the exact same behavior we see here on U.S. Message Board. The difference is that because the members here believe themselves to be anonymous the are quite forthcoming with their feelings and opinions so we know the racist feelings and attitudes they harbor because they have openly expressed them on this board.

I earlier addressed the scenario of having the ability to correctly detect things in your environment that others routinely cannot but this time I used commercial aircraft. I don't know if that will make any more sense to you than the vehicle shopping analogy but this particular exercise is not a part of my work in that it's something I have to turn in. Like the title of my thread says, it is just an experiment.

 

[Hector12]

You will note that Lisa never talks about the much higher numbers of crimes whites commit every year.

That is because whites have a much lower crime rate.

 

[Mac-7]

Bullshit, do you accuse those who reenact the Civil War as living vicariously through their ancestors?

They are reenactors

They dont actually hate the other side the way black radicals do

The war is over for them but not for you

 

[MarathonMike]

Oh, they still had slaves up in Alabama well past the 60s.

They just called 'em "Nannies" and "Butlers" and "groundskeepers" n stuff.

I was really shocked when I went up there because it's not like that here.

I was staying with a cousin (who never would do anything like that) and then we went over to a neighbor's

house and I found all this out.

Were these Black people forced to be Nannies, Butlers and groundskeepers against their will and without pay?

 

[MarathonMike]

That is because whites have a much lower crime rate.

One of the silly numbers games IM2 plays. My favorite is how safe Chicago is statistically.

 

[The Duke]

Were these Black people forced to be Nannies, Butlers and groundskeepers against their will and without pay?

No, but a lot of them were not paid top dollar, either.

Actually they were happy to have a job of honest work. There's nothing wrong with that.

Alabama blacks are very nice people, IMO.

 

[gtopa1]

It's not a story, it's an actual event that occurred within my life however if you have such a test present it. I'd love to reverse engineer it and see the logic that makes the determinations.

Hi Mariyam. A true story. I had been working on a property in The Outback when I decided it was time to go back to Uni. I'd been taking a break. I arrived in South Australia and enrolled in a course for which I received previous credits and all was good. I applied for Uni accommodation and was given a place and went there. I found that the occupants were from the "upper end" of Uni society and frankly I wasn't bothered in the least. I put my swag in my room and parked my rather dusty 4WD car in the allotted spot and THEN was told by the "occupants" that they did not see me as a person they wanted in their "space". They complained and had me removed to a different place. BTW: it had NOTHING to do with race and everything to do with them seeing me as "socially unacceptable". Now I could speculate about their motives but frankly I don't bother. They're not worth it.

Greg

 

[MarathonMike]

No, but a lot of them were not paid top dollar, either.

Actually they were happy to have a job of honest work. There's nothing wrong with that.

Alabama blacks are very nice people, IMO.

Absolutely, the black people we met were always very friendly.

 

[The Duke]

Absolutely, the black people we met were always very friendly.

I'd describe them as kind of sweet and innocent. Very nice people.

Not conniving people at all. I like that attribute in people.

 

[MizMolly]

What do you think happens when Black Americans pay the same amount of income taxes as whites but are restricted from using certain of the services that those taxes pay for?

Did you see the movie Hidden Figures?

What services are blacks denied? And I paid my own taxes.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No, but a lot of them were not paid top dollar, either.

Actually they were happy to have a job of honest work. There's nothing wrong with that.

Alabama blacks are very nice people, IMO.

Servants have never been paid top dollar. That's why people could afford servants.

 

[MarathonMike]

Surely you jest, why do you think you have the ability to anger me especially when all you've done is demonstrate your complete lack of understanding?

Can you see the air we breath? No, but you know it's there right?
Can you see the wind blowing? No, not the actual wind but the movement of the trees means it is blowing right?
What about the germs that cause us to get sick? We can't see them but if we could we could avoid them right?

There are two reasons that you don't see/agree with the amount of racism there is in the world around us in the United States.

Number one is because you don't want to see it because you don't believe it exists, so it could be dangled in front of face and you'd close your eyes or turn you head or walk away, to plug your ears with your fingers and blab 'lalalalalalalalalalalala' so you don't have to hear about it.

Number two is because you don't possess the ability to recognize racism except the most blatant, in-your-face type because in addition to reason number 1 above, it's not something that you are familiar with.

When I first started school at Embry-Riddle, I could identify every commercial aircraft that was flying at the time. I'd spend time with my friends and fellow classmates, lounging at the beach both at the end of the runway at LAX and in Daytona. We could identify them by first of all knowing what types of aircraft each of the airlines had in their fleet, the engine configurations, such as the T-Tail on the Boeing 727 with the engines in the back versus the wings, or the Lockheed L1011 which could land itself but also had a rear engine that went through the empennage in an S configuration with the engine intake on top of the fuselage and the exhaust on the bottom rear. These days I probably wouldn't recognize anything other than a 747 which I'm sure are even flying anymore or a 727 and particularly since Airbus has a significant share of the market these days but I digress.

I and some others have taken the time to learn more about African American history to better understand our laws, how and why they came to be, and through the process have uncovered many other things. For example, most of my instructors since I've been in Washington State have been white males. Learning about the concealed carry laws in the United States began with the discovery that gun control in the U.S. was implemented for the specific purpose of criminalizing the taking up of arms by Black people in defense against the Klu Klux Klan.

My white instructors taught me this, with no bias in one direction or the other, just simply this is our history, this is how we got to where we are today, with you not being able to live in the state you were born in and grew up in, because you needed to be able to protect your life and the state of California response was "too bad so sad".

At a prior point in my life I was sent one summer to temp at a very interesting company while still during my university years. The (white) gentleman, from Charleston South Carolina no less, when he discovered that I had an interest in aviation and was attending Embry-Riddle, would take the time to explain things to me regarding his investigations, how he founded his company and how he lost part of his leg in a plane crash and as a result vowed he was going to do whatever was necessary to find out why his plane crashed. He also told me about a case they had investigated where they simulated the conditions under which an aircraft lost power and crashed in a thunderstorm. The investigators took the exact same model of the aircraft that crashed and they simulated the up & down drafts that the aircraft would have been subjected to during a thunderstorm which the pilot had been unable to get out of. Amazingly, at least to my eyes, they discovered that when the aircraft was put into an extremely nose high attitude, that the fuel began running from the engine, due to gravity, and that the engine would eventually die of fuel starvation. The pilot being unable to get the engine restarted, lost his life when the plane crashed.

All of this information came out during the hearing when my boss gave testimony as an expert witness on airplane crashes and aviation safety. Their findings were sent to the FAA, the aircraft was grounded and an Airworthiness Directive was issued to the manufacturer of the aircraft, with instructions to correct this defect in the design so that the fuel continued to flow to the engine irrespective of adverse nose high attitudes.

One of my current mentors, another white male, gave me a start in one main area of my current line of business. It will be 10 years next year that company has been in business and when we talk we talk about a lot of general topics but pretty much always include work things, business things, family things, just like friends do.

I don't know what they perceive when they view me because I've never asked them except for at times they have acknowledged that the "good old boy network" was probably in my way on various occassions. Other people that I have worked with who may not have been able to elucidate what they witnessed and how or why it may have been racism or race related, but knew that what they witnessed was disturbing enough that they asked "what can I do? how can I help?"

I have a very low opinion of individuals who will lie about facts, or pretend that things are anything other than what they actually are and this whole gaslighting thing that goes on these days, I suspect that this has been going on forever, it just didn't have an adequate name previously but now we know.

The flip side of not having the ability to see racism when you encountered it is the ability you all have to take the Black people who are communicating with you on this site and perceive us as anything other than who we actually are. We've told you who we are but you all for some reason either think we're lying or that in your minds it's just not possible for us to be who we say we are. And it hasn't escaped my attention that you will often refer to me and IM2 as "success Black Americans" but then add that it's because we have benefited in some way or another from something that was allegedly not available to others (yes I mean white people by others).

Lots of words, and some interesting personal stories. Thank you for the effort of writing all of that. So I have been very consistent with my discussions with you about your favorite subject Racism. I have consistently stated that there are and always will be INDIVIDUALS who are Racist. So what? They have no power over you that you do not give them. There is no longer any vestige of SYSTEMIC RACISM. Period. End of story. If I am wrong, then provide me an example of access or opportunity that you were denied because of your Race. I am quite certain that an intelligent, motivated Black woman of your generation has had numerous opportunities available to you. Be grateful that you didn't grow up 60 or 70 years ago when Systemic Racism was prevalent.

 

[The Duke]

Lots of words, and some interesting personal stories. Thank you for the effort of writing all of that. So I have been very consistent with my discussions with you about your favorite subject Racism. I have consistently stated that there are and always will be INDIVIDUALS who are Racist. So what? They have no power over you that you do not give them. There is no longer any vestige of SYSTEMIC RACISM. Period. End of story. If I am wrong, then provide me an example of access or opportunity that you were denied because of your Race. I am quite certain that an intelligent, motivated Black woman of your generation has had numerous opportunities available to you. Be grateful that you didn't grow up 60 or 70 years ago when Systemic Racism was prevalent.

You may soon see the folly of that post. I'm not gonna talk about a lady's age, though.

 

[MarathonMike]

You may soon see the folly of that post. I'm not gonna talk about a lady's age, though.

Meh, I've had lots of chats with NVM, always interesting.

 

[The Duke]

Meh, I've had lots of chats with NVM, always interesting.

I appreciate her postings. We don't always agree on everything, but that's the nature of individuals.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

They are reenactors

They dont actually hate the other side the way black radicals do

The war is over for them but not for you

What black radicals lol?

Why don't you just give it up and quit trying to impose your own ideas on how I or any other Black person should be spending our time or what we shouldn't be spending it on.

You don't hear me trying to tell any of you that just because some of you obviously could benefit from some remedial classes on a myriad of topics, nagging you about doing so.

And you're wrong in trying to portray me wanting to live vicariously through my ancestors. I didn't have to live vicariously through him (my grandfather), I actually enrolled in a university that provided me with an aeronautical science curriculum, the equivalent of ground school courses as well as flight instructions each afternoon until I changed my major to computer science.

Ironically my ex lives just outside of Daytona Beach in Florida in the fly-in community Spruce Creek. When we (the Black students) were enrolled in Embry-Riddle we all wanted to 1. graduate, 2. get a job flying with the airlines, 3. buy a house in Spruce Creek with an aircraft hangar in addition to a garage for our nice sports car Actually it's a bit beyond ironic since he has his own plane (Mooney) and claims that I was his inspiration for getting his pilot license oh about 18 years ago. Oh yeah, he's white (German).

You're so wrong about so many things.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It's easy for racists to ignore the racism they practice.

As you demonstrate daily