A question for the small govt types

[Slade3200]

So, for some, do trade schools instead of general public schooling?

Back in the day, we had shop classes.

And I remember the guidance counselors steering us so called “smart kids” away from the shop classes so we wouldn’t end up in “those kind of jobs”.

It would be great to include more trade and practical type classes in school... I lived in the auto shop in HS and it lead me towards an engineering degree in college. It doesn’t all have to be theory

 

[Indeependent]

So, for some, do trade schools instead of general public schooling?

Back in the day, we had shop classes.

And I remember the guidance counselors steering us so called “smart kids” away from the shop classes so we wouldn’t end up in “those kind of jobs”.

It would be great to include more trade and practical type classes in school... I lived in the auto shop in HS and it lead me towards an engineering degree in college. It doesn’t all have to be theory

Other countries mix theory with application.

 

[TNHarley]

Wouldnt it be easier on everyone if the only people there, were people that wanted to be there?

That puts an unfair burdon on children who have lazy, unmotivated or disenfranchised parents and why should the children suffer as a result of having bad parents?

Excellent point!

 

[TNHarley]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Freedom is too and that get shits on every day

 

[Slade3200]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

 

[Slade3200]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Freedom is too and that get shits on every day

I definitely agree that there needs to be a healthy balance between what we regulate and what we don’t. Liberty and freedom is what our country is built on and we can’t lose that

 

[ricechickie]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

To an extent. If it’s something you hate that gets you to a larger goal, then fine.

I liked school. But then again, I still like to learn. Not everyone has that experience, and it feels like a waste of time if it’s not leading you to a life goal.

 

[Maxdeath]

I believe that at least a general education is necessary. There are too many things in life that can cost you. General economics, learning how to get along with others, an understanding of math, English, and even history.

If we do not remember history you are doomed to repeat it. Math to balance a checkbook and all the other necessities. English so you can communicate with others, read safety notices, even understand a contract.

It maybe better to have alternate schools for those that struggle with the usual school setting.

 

[Slade3200]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

To an extent. If it’s something you hate that gets you to a larger goal, then fine.

I liked school. But then again, I still like to learn. Not everyone has that experience, and it feels like a waste of time if it’s not leading you to a life goal.

But then how do you apply that lesson to the real world? People have to go to work every day and do you wanna guess how many people hate working or hate their jobs? Yet they have to do it to survive.
Learning to triump in situations that you hate is a great life lesson or else what are we teaching our kids? As soon as you hate your job, quit? As soon as your relationship gets hard bail?

I just don’t see a down side to instilling our children with lessons of discipline and challenge in their developing years. How they decide to use those lessons when they become an adult is up to them, but at least we are preparing them the best we can for what they will face later in life.

 

[ricechickie]

Interesting question.

To be honest, I’m split.

You would think I would support mandatory schooling up until age 21. But how many years really are necessary to learn the basics that makes for a literate citizenry?

5th, 6th grade?

How much do we learn in high school do we really use in real life? What I remember back in high school, it was like a forced buffet. You had to have a taste of everything. Although it was in those years that my writing skills grew.

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

To an extent. If it’s something you hate that gets you to a larger goal, then fine.

I liked school. But then again, I still like to learn. Not everyone has that experience, and it feels like a waste of time if it’s not leading you to a life goal.

But then how do you apply that lesson to the real world? People have to go to work every day and do you wanna guess how many people hate working or hate their jobs? Yet they have to do it to survive.
Learning to triump in situations that you hate is a great life lesson or else what are we teaching our kids? As soon as you hate your job, quit? As soon as your relationship gets hard bail?

I just don’t see a down side to instilling our children with lessons of discipline and challenge in their developing years. How they decide to use those lessons when they become an adult is up to them, but at least we are preparing them the best we can for what they will face later in life.

The downside is that high schoolers who don’t want to be there can make it harder on everyone else.

That’s where the behavior issues come in.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you; I’m just playong devil’s advocate.

 

[OODA_Loop]

No need to go to school or work in today's society. Live off of the government. Somebody else will pay.

 

[TNHarley]

I believe that at least a general education is necessary. There are too many things in life that can cost you. General economics, learning how to get along with others, an understanding of math, English, and even history.

If we do not remember history you are doomed to repeat it. Math to balance a checkbook and all the other necessities. English so you can communicate with others, read safety notices, even understand a contract.

It maybe better to have alternate schools for those that struggle with the usual school setting.

I didnt learn REAL history until i graduated high school. Just throwing that out there.

 

[ricechickie]

No need to go to school or work in today's society. Live off of the government. Somebody else will pay.

First stupid partisan comment, page 2.

 

[Slade3200]

There is much more that is learned in school than simply the subject matter of the classes. Kids learn how to learn, they develop discipline to stick to a schedule, challenge themselves with subjects that they don’t necessarily like or want to learn about, they learn social skills, sports and extra curricular activities etc. It is the best environment to prepare them for the real world on many levels.

It can definitely be improved in many areas but it is a great system and essential to a prosperous society

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

To an extent. If it’s something you hate that gets you to a larger goal, then fine.

I liked school. But then again, I still like to learn. Not everyone has that experience, and it feels like a waste of time if it’s not leading you to a life goal.

But then how do you apply that lesson to the real world? People have to go to work every day and do you wanna guess how many people hate working or hate their jobs? Yet they have to do it to survive.
Learning to triump in situations that you hate is a great life lesson or else what are we teaching our kids? As soon as you hate your job, quit? As soon as your relationship gets hard bail?

I just don’t see a down side to instilling our children with lessons of discipline and challenge in their developing years. How they decide to use those lessons when they become an adult is up to them, but at least we are preparing them the best we can for what they will face later in life.

The downside is that high schoolers who don’t want to be there can make it harder on everyone else.

That’s where the behavior issues come in.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you; I’m just playong devil’s advocate.

I appreciate that, it lends to a good debate. Problem kids are definatley an issue, I guess I would argue that it all exists in the real world. Our communities have crime and homelessness that makes things harder for others. Our workplaces often have bad apples that make life tough for others. Learning how to achieve success despite the barriers and how to lift the problem people up are both great skills to learn in school which can be translated to the real world.

My girl is a school counselor so she deals with the “problem” kids most of the time. They are mostly good kids with tough home lives or mental issues. A healthy school environment is the best place for them, if you isolate all of them together then it creates a jail like atmosphere which severely limits opportunity.

So while I do see benefit and a need for secondary schools for some extreme cases I think we need to be very careful how we handle those situations.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Wouldnt it be easier on everyone if the only people there, were people that wanted to be there?

Not very many children would be there. 5,6,7 year olds are generally not big picture people at that age.

 

[ricechickie]

Some learn those things. And some learn they hate school.

My first job was a laborer for a construction project and I learned that I hated digging trenches and clearing garbage piles. I wanted to be the guy with the hammer or the guy with the blueprints both of whom were getting paid way more than the guys sweating in the dirt. This is what made me start taking school and going to college seriously. My point is, sometimes experiencing things you hate can motivate you to achieve better things. We all have to experience struggles and challenges in life. It’s in those situations when we often learn the most about ourselves. This is especially important for our youth to learn and experience

To an extent. If it’s something you hate that gets you to a larger goal, then fine.

I liked school. But then again, I still like to learn. Not everyone has that experience, and it feels like a waste of time if it’s not leading you to a life goal.

But then how do you apply that lesson to the real world? People have to go to work every day and do you wanna guess how many people hate working or hate their jobs? Yet they have to do it to survive.
Learning to triump in situations that you hate is a great life lesson or else what are we teaching our kids? As soon as you hate your job, quit? As soon as your relationship gets hard bail?

I just don’t see a down side to instilling our children with lessons of discipline and challenge in their developing years. How they decide to use those lessons when they become an adult is up to them, but at least we are preparing them the best we can for what they will face later in life.

The downside is that high schoolers who don’t want to be there can make it harder on everyone else.

That’s where the behavior issues come in.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you; I’m just playong devil’s advocate.

I appreciate that, it lends to a good debate. Problem kids are definatley an issue, I guess I would argue that it all exists in the real world. Our communities have crime and homelessness that makes things harder for others. Our workplaces often have mad apples that make life tough for others. Learning how to achieve success despite the barriers and how to lift the problem people up are both great skills to learn in school which can be translated to the real world.

My girls is a school counselor so she deals with the “problem” kids most of the time. They are mostly good kids with tough home lives or mental issues. A healthy school environment is the best place for them, if you isolate all of them together then it creates a jail like atmosphere which severely limits opportunity.

So while I do see benefit and a need for secondary schools for some extreme cases I think we need to be very careful how we handle those situations.

I agree that isolating the problem kids is not good for them. Excellent point!

 

[TNHarley]

Wouldnt it be easier on everyone if the only people there, were people that wanted to be there?

Not very many children would be there. 5,6,7 year olds are generally not big picture people at that age.

5,6, and 7 year olds usually have parents lol

 

[Ricky LIbtardo]

Do you think school should be a requirement as it is right now?

tn ole boy. As bad as I hate Socialists (lazy bastards) the Dutch had a system of education that worked very well.

All the kids had to go to school and when they turned 12, about the 6th grade level they tested the kids. This is a good age to test as they haven't become sidetracked with hormones and rebel attitudes yet. Based on the testing they separated them into three categories.

Dumb as ****
Normal
Advanced

Then the kids were assigned curriculum that suits their potential. They do however have a system that you can get the better education if you prove you're capable over time. So the idiots were trained in construction trades, the normal would get choices later in high school, and the advanced started learning the sciences with the opportunity for higher management. All get the opportunity to advance after high school but you can't get in to government supported college if you can't handle the curriculum. They don't waste the money.

Then it was off to MANADATORY military service of two years after high school level. They stopped that in the early 90's. Too bad, we should have it here.

This way the government didn't waste money trying to educate those whom it would be wasted on. No sense putting idiots and the lazy in classes with wizards. It slows the education of the advanced kids and demoralizes the idiots.

It does have an element of stigmatizing the groups but the kids are going to school with those in the same situation so they tend to group and it's easier to gain self esteem in your group other than being the three idiots in with advanced kids making fun of you all the time. Less social problems going on in school as they are separated campuses.

 

[Some Guy]

Education is something that's really in the best interest of one's citizens. If you don't have knowledge and skills learned through knowledge, what do you have? Not much.

That said, our current format for schooling is wildly outdated. The curriculum needs to be completely overhauled. There's a whole bunch of shit taught in schools that is pointless. The current format was designed in the 20s to turn out obedient factory workers. I'd like to see government only responsible for making sure kids get vouchers for attending private schools of their choice. Let the schools develop their own curriculum and let people be more in control of their own destiny when it comes to what and how they learn.

MindValley has a really cool concept for how college would be completely transformed. Plenty of those concepts could be put into place for kids. Check it out.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Everyone should at least have a trade.

So you want to increase mandatory schooling? Because it is very strict now and that doesnt happen.

There’s too much pressure in society for students who can’t make it through different grades.
I know many people who dropped out of High School but can buld a house according to code.

Yep...
Hell,I quit high school and ended up making flight hardware for the shuttle program.
I learned more on my own then school ever taught me.