A Question For Americans

[antagon]

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?

marx was an economist. franklin and jefferson werent up on that. as great as those men were, we'dve been fucked with a bunch of 18th century merchantilists fumbling with the great depression. i'd say jmkeynes for fdr's inspiration, if thats not obvious as hell.

 

[Intense]

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?

marx was an economist. franklin and jefferson werent up on that. as great as those men were, we'dve been fucked with a bunch of 18th century merchantilists fumbling with the great depression. i'd say jmkeynes for fdr's inspiration, if thats not obvious as hell.

Who the **** needs Self Determination Anyway!!!

Tax Us more, Fine Us More, Tell Us Everyday what We should, Think, Say, Do , Wear.

You may need to be caged, fed and watered, and changed regularly, that does not justify You claiming You know what is best for the rest of Us. When You lose the Crowd, You mandate, Schemes, Scams, Misdirection, Misinformation, Sabotage, the End justifies the Means for Your Kind, the only thing standing in the way of Your Totalitarian Utopia is Reason and Reality. Don't include Me in Your Vision. Roosevelt had nothing over Jefferson or Madison. The only obvious thing I see in relation to Your Post is You really Really suck in American History.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I thought this question was settled back in 1865.
They tried. The Unionists said 'No'. Thus war. They lost. Matter settled. State laws do not supersede Federal law. The Constitution is supreme law of the land.
Keep in mind they picked the fight; not the Federal government. The Fed exercised incredible forbearance at its own expense.
They formed their own government on U.S. soil; they seized U.S. assets and arms; they absolved themselves of all debts U.S.; they colluded with foreign powers; and still the Fed patiently waited for them to come back in.
They fired upon a U.S. garrison. Only then did the Unionists muster their Armies and come forth to preserve the government of their inheritance.
The overarching thought of the ardent politicians and military officers of the time was, 'What would the world think of us if we can't manage our own house? We would be forever diminished upon the world stage and be in a state of eternal conflict upon a vast border'. It must all be one or the other.

States rights would not be the first political question on this planet that took more than one war to decide.....

Could America find itself with a large enough chunk of its population under employed enough to find out what can happen when a society gets greedy after spending 5 times on guns what it spends on education?

 

[AVG-JOE]

A little bit revisionist, don't you think??? Still, when lead and emotions start flying, we all lose. The atrocities on all sides compound the equation. Your Unions are no closer to Sainthood than what they oppose. The end does not justify the means.

I think you guys have a pretty firm grip on revisionism, given the record, it is all you do. But please tell us which piece is revisionist in your mind so I can (try to) set you straight.


"In March 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt was inaugurated President and initiated a series of aggressive measures, collectively known as the New Deal, in an attempt to revive the economy from the Depression. New Deal legislation brought unprecedented Federal Government involvement to the economy.

The Great Depression also resulted in the unprecedented involvement of the Federal Government in labor-management relations. The passage of the National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act) of 1935 guaranteed the rights of workers to join labor unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. The impact of unionization on the wages and benefits of blue-collar workers in important manufacturing industries also spilled over into non-union workplaces and industries. Union membership rates, which had been about 1 in 8 workers in the early 1930s, doubled to more than 1 in 4 workers in 1940"

Compensation from before World War I through the Great Depression

A conservative on labor then.
http://www.conservativeissues.org/economic-issues-work-conditions-in-the-1930’s.html

Labor Unions — Infoplease.com


"I am not for a return to that definition of liberty under which for so many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." FDR 1934

*****-slap the greed out of the current owners of Western 'Civilization'! Woo-hoo FDR!

And then the unions and the government were driven by dollars to slowly become wholly owned subsidiaries of the corporate beings currently hiding the self proclaimed owners of this world.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A little bit revisionist, don't you think??? Still, when lead and emotions start flying, we all lose. The atrocities on all sides compound the equation. Your Unions are no closer to Sainthood than what they oppose. The end does not justify the means.

I think you guys have a pretty firm grip on revisionism, given the record, it is all you do. But please tell us which piece is revisionist in your mind so I can (try to) set you straight.


"In March 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt was inaugurated President and initiated a series of aggressive measures, collectively known as the New Deal, in an attempt to revive the economy from the Depression. New Deal legislation brought unprecedented Federal Government involvement to the economy.

The Great Depression also resulted in the unprecedented involvement of the Federal Government in labor-management relations. The passage of the National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act) of 1935 guaranteed the rights of workers to join labor unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. The impact of unionization on the wages and benefits of blue-collar workers in important manufacturing industries also spilled over into non-union workplaces and industries. Union membership rates, which had been about 1 in 8 workers in the early 1930s, doubled to more than 1 in 4 workers in 1940"

Compensation from before World War I through the Great Depression

A conservative on labor then.
http://www.conservativeissues.org/economic-issues-work-conditions-in-the-1930’s.html

Labor Unions — Infoplease.com


"I am not for a return to that definition of liberty under which for so many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." FDR 1934

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?
Our concerns are real and valid my friend, Our methods are incompatible, thats all. Progressivism has done much to remove the obstacle of Individual Will. My system celebrates Individual Awareness, Yours, sacrifices it at the Totalitarian, Utopian Alter of Self Denial and Enslavement of Conscience. I'll tell You this, Your True Self does matter to Me, I Value It. When It's realized, It's going to carry Much Weight.

I'll bet anyone a dollar that Roosevelt reflected more on Roosevelt than any of those other guys. You don't get elected to the presidency 4 times without having your own opinions and the stones to put them out there.

He must have done something right... the people of his time kept him on the job a while.

 

[ski87]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

 

[froggy]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

And if the gov't felt threatened what do you think both would do, You know at this point in time no one has much faith in any of the gov't.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Looking back over this thread, I wonder how many people would not hesitate to call for military force to defend the status quo.

I also wonder how that list would cross-check against a list of those who are certain that the military would never shoot them, even if ordered to.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

And if the gov't felt threatened what do you think both would do, You know at this point in time no one has much faith in any of the gov't.

I LOVE our government! Sure, it is also something to fear, but if things ever truly go to shit, I'm sure gonna miss things like food & drug purity standards and Social Security.

 

[froggy]

U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens - BlackListed News - Archive U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens

 

[ski87]

This whole thread is a joke designed to bait....

People forget that US troops aren't Spetnatz or some motley crew of Legionnairres. US troops are a volunteer force that is a microcosm of society.

Paranoid alarmists..the lot.

 

[midcan5]

"Where freedom is real, equality is the passion of the masses. Where equality is real, freedom is the passion of a small minority." Eric Hoffer

LOL!!! Sometimes You kinda come off like Hal from 2001 Space Odyssey.

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?
Our concerns are real and valid my friend, Our methods are incompatible, thats all. Progressivism has done much to remove the obstacle of Individual Will. My system celebrates Individual Awareness, Yours, sacrifices it at the Totalitarian, Utopian Alter of Self Denial and Enslavement of Conscience. I'll tell You this, Your True Self does matter to Me, I Value It. When It's realized, It's going to carry Much Weight.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt was one interesting person. I am reading a history of the times that may be the best history book* I have ever read, and it is no longer published. Kinda weird but it is so long I can see why. FDR didn't imitate anyone, he was basically upper class, conservative, and privileged till he found himself handed an immense problem. The country was sinking after Coolidge and Hoover and the stock bubble collapse - very much like today. He even disagreed with Keynes at times, as 1938 went back into the red as he tried to balance the budget. Did he do all the right things, hell no, but unlike our politicians today he managed to do enough good things, and to fix the bad ideas to make the nation what it is today.

Not sure what the Hal reference means. Your system for me is utopian and unrealizable, we live in a social world and not a social darwinist world. Here is a piece that analyzes the sort of utopian vision you dream about. Why is libertarianism wrong?


"Conservatives want to be your daddy, telling you what to do and what not to do. Liberals want to be your mommy, feeding you, tucking you in, and wiping your nose." David Boaz


*Best history book. The glory and the dream: a narrative ... - Google Books

Amazon and Alibris have used copies cheap.

PS

As for soldiers shooting fellow Americans: http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/lewihen.htm

All one needs to do is label the people to be shot un-American or something.


"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen

 

[sparky]

This whole thread is a joke designed to bait....

People forget that US troops aren't Spetnatz or some motley crew of Legionnairres. US troops are a volunteer force that is a microcosm of society.

Paranoid alarmists..the lot.

really?

so how'd that work out during Katrina?

~S~

 

[JW Frogen]

I live in the Antipodes, Australia, the only question for Americans I have is will you still front up and protect us? There was a time I would have never asked.

We will front up to help, as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in the end, it is up to you and your willpower.

We need you USA, you must lead, and you need to know the entire democratic world needs you to lead.

 

[sparky]

Most Americans would mobilize , and would probably operate for the greater good JW

For instance , a natural disaster of magnitude that would require a military presence to evac the general populace, and maintain order...

would there be altercations? looters getting shot?

maybe, but for the most part people would see 'this is the way it is' , and follow

ps~anecdotally, i've been ordered to tell folks to get out of their homes , re; imminent hazard. Once they realize it, they usually comply

~S~

 

[Samson]

I live in the Antipodes, Australia, the only question for Americans I have is will you still front up and protect us? There was a time I would have never asked.

We will front up to help, as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in the end, it is up to you and your willpower.

We need you USA, you must lead, and you need to know the entire democratic world needs you to lead.

Are there Revolutionary Rumblings among the Koalas?

Insurgents Disguised as Kangaroos?

Murderous Marceupials enraged over names beginning with the letter "K?"

 

[Intense]

I think you guys have a pretty firm grip on revisionism, given the record, it is all you do. But please tell us which piece is revisionist in your mind so I can (try to) set you straight.


"In March 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt was inaugurated President and initiated a series of aggressive measures, collectively known as the New Deal, in an attempt to revive the economy from the Depression. New Deal legislation brought unprecedented Federal Government involvement to the economy.

The Great Depression also resulted in the unprecedented involvement of the Federal Government in labor-management relations. The passage of the National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act) of 1935 guaranteed the rights of workers to join labor unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. The impact of unionization on the wages and benefits of blue-collar workers in important manufacturing industries also spilled over into non-union workplaces and industries. Union membership rates, which had been about 1 in 8 workers in the early 1930s, doubled to more than 1 in 4 workers in 1940"

Compensation from before World War I through the Great Depression

A conservative on labor then.
http://www.conservativeissues.org/economic-issues-work-conditions-in-the-1930’s.html

Labor Unions — Infoplease.com


"I am not for a return to that definition of liberty under which for so many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few." FDR 1934

Do You think Roosevelt reflected more on Madison/Jefferson or MARX, Midcan?
Our concerns are real and valid my friend, Our methods are incompatible, thats all. Progressivism has done much to remove the obstacle of Individual Will. My system celebrates Individual Awareness, Yours, sacrifices it at the Totalitarian, Utopian Alter of Self Denial and Enslavement of Conscience. I'll tell You this, Your True Self does matter to Me, I Value It. When It's realized, It's going to carry Much Weight.

I'll bet anyone a dollar that Roosevelt reflected more on Roosevelt than any of those other guys. You don't get elected to the presidency 4 times without having your own opinions and the stones to put them out there.

He must have done something right... the people of his time kept him on the job a while.

Either that or the blind desperation of the misinformed. Should We imitate Mao, or Chavez, or Castro? Their books balance, Right? A few bullets to the Right heads and miraculously all of the red flags vanish, right. No opposition or dissent, no follow through's. Just don't look too close.

 

[Intense]

Here we go again, the same old recycled rhetoric from the delegation of Lib alarmists. We all know that Posse Comitatus restricts US Armed Forces from domestic enforcement activities unless under direct mandate from both the executive and legislative branches of our gov't.

Nope!

We know Law means what Government says it means until it decides to change It's mind.

 

[ski87]

This whole thread is a joke designed to bait....

People forget that US troops aren't Spetnatz or some motley crew of Legionnairres. US troops are a volunteer force that is a microcosm of society.

Paranoid alarmists..the lot.

really?

so how'd that work out during Katrina?

~S~

Vague references to an event that utilized Military personnel to distribute aid ??

We could discuss this, but maybe merits its own thread, what do you think ?

 

[Intense]

This whole thread is a joke designed to bait....

People forget that US troops aren't Spetnatz or some motley crew of Legionnairres. US troops are a volunteer force that is a microcosm of society.

Paranoid alarmists..the lot.

Our Troops, Our Sons, Daughters, Brothers, Sisters, Friends, Kin, are under Pressure and Orders, as the rest of Us. It is neither Your place or Mine to decree what can or can't, will or won't happen, with any credibility. Circumstance will dictate. I have shown beyond doubt on two Posts Powers that most of Us are not even aware of. When Governments get hijacked shit happens. When Governments turn Predatory, more shit happens. We are still in the Soft Tyranny phase, for now. My view is from the Conservative/Libertarian perspective, not the Left.