A path to a future that is sustainable

Old Rocks

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2008
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Portland, Ore.
There are many different paths to our future. Thinking through what will be the result of taking various ones is hardly easy, especially realizing that the changes, both good and bad, will not be linear.

 
Clean and safe nuclear power for electricity makes more sense than intermittent energy production from wind and solar. And before we start cheering how green electric cars are we better have an environmentally safe plan for the mining of lithium, cobalt et al. and disposal of old batteries.

Test tube steak or farm grown produce and animals??? Today anyone can grow fruits and vegetables or raise chickens, but only big industries will be able to grow test-tube steak at an affordable price. Personally I prefer farm produce.

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Clean and safe nuclear power for electricity makes more sense than intermittent energy production from wind and solar. And before we start cheering how green electric cars are we better have an environmentally safe plan for the mining of lithium, cobalt et al. and disposal of old batteries.

Test tube steak or farm grown produce and animals??? Today anyone can grow fruits and vegetables or raise chickens, but only big industries will be able to grow test-tube steak at an affordable price. Personally I prefer farm produce.

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I like clean safe nuclear power. I also like wind, solar PV, limited hydro, geothermal, etc, etc, etc. The problems of obtaining and disposing of lithium and cobalt are rendered irrelevant by the development of iron batteries, vanadium solution batteries and other technology that doesn't use expensive, rare or toxic materials.

Synthetic meat will solve enough problems to justify it not being a mom and pop operation.
 
There are many different paths to our future. Thinking through what will be the result of taking various ones is hardly easy, especially realizing that the changes, both good and bad, will not be linear.



Toby Turtle sez ...

Robinhood195.jpg
 
Very few people care about this.

About as salient a topic as slug migration patterns in the Congo to the average American.

You will notice amongst the 3 or 4 regular climate crusader regulars in this forum....a real sketchy grasp of the political/social landscape.

These same people....you just know in their formative years were showing up to school functions in water high pants, were routinely picked last for the team and were throwing out their shoulders putting up their hands in class to get called on first. We all knew them.

The social oddballs always end up embracing some ghey "cause" so they can matter to at least somebody:wink_2:
 
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I like clean safe nuclear power. I also like wind, solar PV, limited hydro, geothermal, etc, etc, etc. The problems of obtaining and disposing of lithium and cobalt are rendered irrelevant by the development of iron batteries, vanadium solution batteries and other technology that doesn't use expensive, rare or toxic materials.

Synthetic meat will solve enough problems to justify it not being a mom and pop operation.

Iron batteries are one of many concepts whose market launch is some years away, if it ever is launched. The iron battery is so heavy that it can't be used in electric cars or most portable products like phones or power tools. So even if the iron battery makes it to market it will not be used for most consumer used products. Lithium mining will continue and toxic waste will increase.

Having food source monopolies is a very bad idea with no upside.

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Clean and safe nuclear power for electricity makes more sense than intermittent energy production from wind and solar. And before we start cheering how green electric cars are we better have an environmentally safe plan for the mining of lithium, cobalt et al. and disposal of old batteries.

Test tube steak or farm grown produce and animals??? Today anyone can grow fruits and vegetables or raise chickens, but only big industries will be able to grow test-tube steak at an affordable price. Personally I prefer farm produce.

.
Nuclear is neither clean nor safe. With grid scale storage, wind and solar are 24/7. There are already companies that recycle the materials in old batteries. Lithium mining is less environmentally damaging than mining copper or lead. Far less than mining coal. Far less than mining tar sands. I am with you on the farm produce.
 
Iron batteries are one of many concepts whose market launch is some years away, if it ever is launched. The iron battery is so heavy that it can't be used in electric cars or most portable products like phones or power tools. So even if the iron battery makes it to market it will not be used for most consumer used products. Lithium mining will continue and toxic waste will increase.

Having food source monopolies is a very bad idea with no upside.

.
The proposed use for the iron battery is not for portable uses, but for energy storage in tandem with Lithium Ion. I don't see much use for the lab grown foods here on Earth, but as we explore the solar system, that will be a different matter.
 
Very few people care about this.

About as salient a topic as slug migration patterns in the Congo to the average American.

You will notice amongst the 3 or 4 regular climate crusader regulars in this forum....a real sketchy grasp of the political/social landscape.

These same people....you just know in their formative years were showing up to school functions in water high pants, were routinely picked last for the team and were throwing out their shoulders putting up their hands in class to get called on first. We all knew them.

The social oddballs always end up embracing some ghey "cause" so they can matter to at least somebody:wink_2:
Water high pants? How's the water where you are at?
 
Nuclear is neither clean nor safe. With grid scale storage, wind and solar are 24/7. There are already companies that recycle the materials in old batteries. Lithium mining is less environmentally damaging than mining copper or lead. Far less than mining coal. Far less than mining tar sands. I am with you on the farm produce.

I disagree with you regarding nuclear (molten salt reactors).

Where batteries are concerned it's a matter of scale. Unless alternatives are found for electric cars, bus, trucks et. al. batteries, a global fleet of electric vehicles will push mining and waste well beyond its present levels.

I agree with you that test-tube steaks would make sense for space travel and even early settlements on the moon or Mars.


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I think test-tube meat will become cheaper than cows, chicken and fish within a few years. Battery technology does need to get away from rare and toxic materials but I suspect that will also happen in the not too distant future.
 

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