A Muslim Brit nails it again on the New Zealand attack

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The only narrative I see are a lot of tools of the One Percent wringing their hands about the poor women who wear Hijabs... when all they care about is the fucking oil.

Then you're not reading my posts. Go complain to those peope then.

I know you Islamophobes

You couldn't name a single islamophobic thing I have ever posted. Of the two of us, I am the one aligned with moderate, modern,liberal muslims. I am the one trying to empoer them. I am the one advocating for taking in muslim refugees. You are the one providing cover for the fundies who would oppress and harm them. You're just a feckless, misguided liberal, shielding illiberal ideas from criticism because you are scared to death you might appear exclusionary. You are failing badly on this issue.

 

[Mac1958]

And yet, there are still many who don't care to see reform, and they'll attack and try to attack & discredit Mr. Nawaz, who is putting his life on the line every day for his beloved religion. This is (currently) the most illiberal, intolerant, violent and authoritarian religion (as practiced by its fundamentalists) on the planet, and many are quick to defend and enable its fundamentalists. Just look at this thread.

And at the same time, what do these same people have to say about Christian fundamentalists?

My question is why that is.​

Anyone recognize Mac's MO by now?

The generic, despised "other" who is found guilty of this, that, and the other kind of wrongdoing, and no one specifically addressed who would then be able to defend himself? Like, ask for a link? Because who is "many", or "these same people"?

As usual, Islam is being identified with how the "fundamentalists", also without getting into specifics, practice it, and, without proof or argument, denigrated as being the worst. That then serves as the slightly softer version of identifying "Islam" and "terrorism". Not a hint of thought is being diverted to examining how Islam may be abused by self-styled fundamentalists, how these fundamentalists are trying to identify Islam with the most horrifyingly stone age reading thereof, and how the islamophobes are, unwittingly or not, touting the same horn and helping with that agenda.

But then, the alleged "victim" is very specific, he even has a name, and his virtue and courage are invariably beyond praise, as are his widely published truisms and platitudes, while his uncanny affiliations and sources of funding are being ignored.

I, for one, am done with that mouth-breathing agenda, having tried to take it seriously far too long already.

Well, gosh.

A Regressive Leftist doesn't like my opinions on Mr. Nawaz and Islamic Fundamentalism.

I am shocked.

Shocked, I say.
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[Olde Europe]

A Regressive Leftist doesn't like my opinions on Mr. Nawaz and Islamic Fundamentalism.

As usual, there is no argument, not even the attempt at conceiving one. Thinking on one's own looks quite differently. Instead, Mac resorts to personal slander (also something he had to steal from someone else), as usual with not a hint of evidence.

Now run along, Mac.

 

[Mac1958]

A Regressive Leftist doesn't like my opinions on Mr. Nawaz and Islamic Fundamentalism.

As usual, there is no argument, not even the attempt at conceiving one. Thinking on one's own looks quite differently. Instead, Mac resorts to personal slander (also something he had to steal from someone else), as usual with not a hint of evidence.

Now run along, Mac.

Okie dokie!


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[Fort Fun Indiana]

As usual, there is no argument,

The moderate Muslim in the OP states an argument.

 

[Mac1958]

Illiberal authoritarian fundamentalists of a feather flock together.

 

[MaryL]

I quote Maajid Nawaz regularly here. He is the liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term "Regressive Left", horrified by the way many on the Left make a bad situation worse by coddling the worst elements of Islam in the West. Mr. Nawaz can see both sides of this issue. I know being able to see both sides of an issue is not considered a good thing here.

He risks his life every day, pushing for reform of his beloved religion. He was assaulted, again, just the other day (I suspect he'll be attacked here, too - that's how they operate). Here's his take on the predictable madness that has followed the New Zealand attack.

The New Zealand Mosque Massacre Blame Game Is Out of Control

LONDON—The anti-Muslim terrorist attack at two mosques in New Zealand marked perhaps the lowest point for Muslim communities in the West since the Bosnia genocide. It has left no doubt that far-right extremism is on the march once more.

But the sheer human tragedy of this attack against my Muslim communities has not deterred extremists from those other two ends of our political spectrum, the far left and the theocratic Islamists, from seeking to exploit it for their own nefarious purposes.

So it is with no surprise that I noticed, a mere day after 50 of my fellow Muslims were so publicly and tragically killed, while the blood was still wet and the bodies remained unburied, that the ideologues had circled like vultures. Opportunistic Islamist and far-left extremists began calling for a purge of people whose politics they disagree with, and started publishing McCarthyite lists of personae non grata to target. Few have come under fiercer assault than my friend and collaborator in dialogue, Sam Harris. The following spectacle has been incredibly unedifying.

Of course, inflammatory anti-Muslim language must be condemned by us all, and many anti-Muslim provocateurs should take a hard look at themselves after New Zealand, just as we must condemn inflammatory Islamist and far-left language. That is different, though, from trying to silence an entire policy concern like Western foreign policy or opposing immigration and critiquing Islam respectively. Only the extremists wish to shut down debate. And so it is crucial that we do not respond to far-right extremism in such a way that we inadvertently empower extremists from other ends of the political spectrum. Terrorists prefer the bullet to the ballot. Let us not become pawns in their game.
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Don't care what any muslims think. Islam is a silly pagurized mythos. Their gravitas comes from their numbers.

 

[Mac1958]

Don't care what any muslims think. Islam is a silly pagurized mythos. Their gravitas comes from their numbers.

Regardless, it isn't going anywhere. So we can advocate for reform that brings fundamentalist Islam closer to the "family of Man" (as I'm advocating, as Nawaz is risking his life fighting for)... or ... we can do what you're seeing on this thread, and refuse to create that expectation and attack anyone who dares to suggest it. That's reality, and that's the choice before us.

The striking thing that is happening is that we're seeing people who would otherwise claim to be "liberal" refusing to advocate for the liberalization of fundamentalist Islam, showing all the tolerance and understanding in the world for fundamentalist Islam, and even attacking the messenger. They are clearly choosing to align themselves with the most conservative (and dangerous) forces within the religion, and against the West. That's incredible. And of course, they'd gleefully attack the nearest fundamentalist Christian at the drop of a hat.

I'd argue that these are not liberals. That's not liberalism -- particularly considering the way fundamentalist Islam treats women and gays. But I guess that's for another thread.
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[JoeB131]

Don't care what any muslims think. Islam is a silly pagurized mythos. Their gravitas comes from their numbers.

As opposed to Christianity, which took Greek Philosophy and tried to weld it on to Bronze Age Superstition.

 

[JoeB131]

You couldn't name a single islamophobic thing I have ever posted. Of the two of us, I am the one aligned with moderate, modern,liberal muslims. I am the one trying to empoer them. I am the one advocating for taking in muslim refugees. You are the one providing cover for the fundies who would oppress and harm them. You're just a feckless, misguided liberal, shielding illiberal ideas from criticism because you are scared to death you might appear exclusionary. You are failing badly on this issue.

Not at all.

You express the usual Imperialist dogma of "Those people are barbarians because they don't think what we think."

"Moderate" Muslims are seen by their own as western Quislings for a reason. You get a guy like Nawaz who puts on a nice suit, and says the right things in nice English to pander to Islamophobic white guys.

Pretty much, he's on the same level as Ben Carson, going to Republican gatherings of white people and telling them how shiftless the other Negroes are.

Neither one of them would talk this kind of smack in front of an audience of their own... but they make good money validating the bigotry of racists.

 

[22lcidw]

Especially not liberals making themselves human shields for islam.... Doesn't fit the narrative...

The only narrative I see are a lot of tools of the One Percent wringing their hands about the poor women who wear Hijabs... when all they care about is the fucking oil.

And at the same time, what do these same people have to say about Christian fundamentalists?

My question is why that is.

It's been explained to you MANY TIMES.

Whether or not I like the very small group of Islamic Fundementalists, they are going to have exactly ZERO effect on my life.

Christian fundies, though, really want to change the country. More importantly, their support of the GOP has allowed the One Percent to roll back all the gains made by working folks since the New Deal.

You see, I'm kind of a funny guy. If you aren't bothering me, I don't bother you. If you are bothering me, I will push back.

So we can drop taxes in all ways for working class peons and you have no problem with that. Those taxes ramp up fast after the poverty level. Believe me there are tens of millions of people struggling and tens of millions more who have tried to push back with their voting. Progressives don't give much of anything back.

 

[JoeB131]

So we can drop taxes in all ways for working class peons and you have no problem with that. Those taxes ramp up fast after the poverty level. Believe me there are tens of millions of people struggling and tens of millions more who have tried to push back with their voting. Progressives don't give much of anything back.

I'd be all for shifting the tax burden back onto the rich where it was before Ronnie Ray-Gun started messing with it.