A Muslim Brit nails it again on the New Zealand attack

[jc456]

For liberals, when a white American waves the flag, they're being nationalistic and racist. When a brown-skinned Mexican waves the Mexican flag, they're celebrating their culture.

Actual liberals don't look at it that way, illiberal authoritarian Regressive Leftists do.

Surely they see the hypocrisy, but they just don't care.
.

oh fk.

 

[jehanne1431]

.
You sound informed (which I appreciate) and nonpartisan, but knowledge does not always beget wisdom.

The crackdown on the princelings was variously described as a crackdown on corruption (bribery, extortion, money laundering), a crackdown on rivals and potential opponents within the royal family, and a shakedown (allegedly to the tune of $106bn). Whatever this was - most likely all of the above applies - the "jailing" at the Riyadh Ritz Carlton wasn't quite what the human rights activists experienced.

No, of course not. I don’t know the primary objectives either, but it appears to be a move to uproot corruption which is laudable. But I grant you that you know more about bin Salmin than I do.

The main point, to me anyway, is not necessarily what MbS is really doing. It is that the petro dollars we, the West, have been pumping into the Saudi autocrats' pockets, stabilized and keeps alive this thoroughly despicable regime, and that in turn contributed to the despicable practice of Islam in parts of the Sunni Muslim world. The stone age Islam the fine Mr. Nawaz complains about is, in relevant part, our, the West's, doing, as is the terrorism the Saudi-funded Wahhabi ideology inspired and fueled.

And what choices does the U.S. have? We need the oil for our citizens and economy, do we buy Russian oil? This is a necessary ‘evil’ if you want to call it that? I see no fault here despite what that Saudi revenue may be used for. This is not the same as creating crime and suffering in Mexico and Latin America because of our demand for drugs. Be that as it may, to overcome either of those matters is beyond government control or the wishes of the common good.

That's before we even mention baby Bush's criminal war on Iraq, which gave birth to AQI, which later morphed into ISIS.

A separate political / global matter. Even I was against the Iraq invasion, it made no sense and the end game was sure to be awful. I believe this world is being greatly directed by financial and global powers that put people in high political offices, that threaten and blackmail others, that bribe many others. So it’s a demoic endeavor where the dark forces fighting both God and the good intentions of the masses

Before listening to, and applauding, one Mr. Nawaz, we in the West would do well to scrutinize our own role in all of this, ranging from mostly turning a blind eye to the pervasive White nationalist ideology in the West, to helping to inflict stone age Islam on the East. Because we stink, grotesquely so, even if we're so accustomed to the stench, we no longer realize it.

We stink no more than all the other people / nations who appear benign to you by comparison. We all have to change our own little world before we endeavor to cause some great groundswell movement. I have reasons to be cynical, and here, it will never come to this. The world is too worldly, too secular and hedonistic. We in the West have abandoned God and He has reciprocated accordingly. I am firm on this, you have other perspectives.

 

[JoeB131]

You must live in some fantasyland, cuz this shit is getting real, and you've probably been sitting in your parent's basement eating Cheetos and smoking pot for the last 40 years.

Just because some uppity darky scared you isn't anything to worry about.

 

[JoeB131]

Liberals do. This board is severely lacking in liberals, however.

What this board does have is many disgruntled individuals who are deeply unhappy and acting out like children in this weird form of nihilism where they throw in their lot with those who wish to destroy like they wish to destroy.

Can we say "arrested development" folks?

Naw, we just don't jump when the Zionists and Oil Companies say Jump anymore. You guys have been trying to scare us with 'There's a Scary Muslim Hiding Under Your Bed" for 30 years now. Some of us are just tired of playing.

Don't like what they are doing on the other side of the world?

DON'T GO TO THAT SIDE OF THE WORLD.

There are plenty of things to fix on THIS side of the world.

And we really aren't impressed with some pathetic sellout telling us that he is going to "reform" Islam to try to impress white people and get a rub on the head.

 

[JoeB131]

Mr. Nawaz and his atheist friend Sam Harris (a favorite of mine) have done of a lot of speaking together on this topic and wrote a book on it, "Islam & the Future of Tolerance":

I'm sure they have... but again, what does this have to do with our imperialistic policies?

Okay, I'll try one last time.

Do you care if it goes through a Reformation or not?

Show some original, reasoned thought here.

Again, what they believe is not the Root Cause of our problem with their part of the world.

They could believe in gay and women's rights, and they WOULD STILL be blowing up westerners and Zionists for invading their countries.

Again- Old Man... Back in the 1970's, the Zionists had us all convinced those dirty stinking Arabs who wanted them off their land were a bunch of dirty stinking Commies who were in with the Soviets.

The Military Industrial Complex will tell us whatever they think will scare us into obediently buying overpriced military stuff and sending poor kids off to war. At least until SOMEONE calls bullshit.

I'm calling Bullshit.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, I tried.

Slippery answers/behaviors from both ends on this. Fascinating.

Naw, you do what you always do.

You start with a nonsense premise "Sellout going to reform Islam and save us all".

Someone points out the basic flaw in your premise,

You get whiny the world doesn't see things your way.

Six more pages, wash, rinse repeat.

 

[JoeB131]

Propagandists who seek to transform the West into Islamist theocracies like to add the word "white" to the word "nationalist" in order to infuse the notion of national sovereignty with something nefarious.

yes, the concept of being a Nationalist is somehow benign... Why look at this fine individual who called himself a "Nationalist"

They do this because a strong sense of national identity is the chief deterrent to their plans to Islamize the west. People who believe in themselves cannot be subverted whereas those who do not are easily overcome.

Wow... so our nefarious plan is to stop antagonizing the Islamic world with endless war, but this is a scheme to "Islamize" the west? No, really!

My guess. Dogmaphobe is all too keen on letting OTHER people do the fighting.

 

[Mac1958]

He is not the only one, either .

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist trying to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- effectively in favor of fundamentalist Islam, and this thread is the proof. Meanwhile they regularly insult Christianity.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist trying to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, and this thread is the proof. Meanwhile they regularly insult Christianity.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.

One more time Stormy Mac. You can reform the Islamic World into a kind of Secularist society you want, and you'd STILL have the same problem with it.... that they would resent western invasion, exploitation and Zionism.

The ironic thing is, if Fundamentalism is gaining a foothold, it's because we encouraged it.

We threw in with the Saudis and their bankrolling of the most extreme forms of Islam.

We trained and armed Bin Laden, the Sunni militias that became ISIS, the guys who helped overthrow Qadafi.

A Turkish scholar recently lamented "After centuries of looking down on the Arabs, we are becoming the Arabs."

There's an old saying, when you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. We've been digging this deep old hole for a long time.

 

[Olde Europe]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

 

[PredFan]

There aren’t any innocent Muslims. They are guilty be direct act or by complacency.

 

[mudwhistle]

You must live in some fantasyland, cuz this shit is getting real, and you've probably been sitting in your parent's basement eating Cheetos and smoking pot for the last 40 years.

Just because some uppity darky scared you isn't anything to worry about.

Yeah, but in reality I felt that Obama was better than Hillary, until I discovered his background.
The problem we have is it doesn't matter what color they are.....if they're a Democrat they are a threat to America.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

Wow... that was insightful. Yes, quite right. We've heard this kind of nonsense since Rudyard Kipling told his fellow Englishmen to "Take up the White Man's Burden". It really didn't work out well for anyone.

Stormy Mac will totally pretend he didn't see it.

 

[Mac1958]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

 

[Mac1958]

Former Islamist Maajid Nawaz on why he made the SPLC's blacklist

Despite his work promoting religious moderation within the Islamic world, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) recently listed Nawaz as an “anti-Muslim extremist,” placing him alongside genuinely repugnant ideologues like Pam Geller and Frank Gaffney. This baffled many people, including David Graham at the Atlantic, the author and atheist Ophelia Benson and myself, since Nawaz has been, on the whole, a thoroughly reasonable voice among critics of religion.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

Why do you pretend to speak for liberals?

You are the furthest thing from liberal.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

So typical

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

Right on cue, the repulsive Islamist plays the race card.

 

[Tehon]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

Why do you pretend to speak for liberals?

You are the furthest thing from liberal.

How do you define liberal?

 

[Mac1958]

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

So typical

Look at this thread.

The Regressives have given Mr. Nawaz at most a perfunctory nod while spending far more time deflecting for fundamentalist Islam.

I don't remember a thread in which this has been more clear. Their hypocrisy is ugly, obvious and incredible.

They go out of their way to attack / ignore / downplay the messenger -- a sincere Muslim reformist try to stop hate and encourage communication and liberalization and peace -- in favor of fundamentalist Islam, while regularly insulting Christianity. And this thread is the proof.

These are not real liberals. They are a distortion, a perversion, of liberalism.
.

You know, Mac, I cannot remember a thread of yours where you didn't claim proof for your pet theory. It's what you do.

You promulgate the scribbling of a bought and paid-for propagandist as an honest attempt at reform. Objections to him, you claim, prove your point. Then you invent attacks on Christianity, and favoring fundamentalist Islam - neither happened - and again claim it proves your point.

I, for one, am wary of oh-so enlightened Westerners taking it upon themselves to reform the savages in the dark corners of this earth. That usually didn't end all that well for the savages. I am particularly wary in case these oh-so enlightened Westerners cannot see the beams in their own eyes.

Most Muslims, I am convinced, want nothing to do with the likes of daesh, or their ideology. They will, on their own, reform. Western meddling is very, very likely a way to thwart, discredit, and delay their efforts. That is why Mr. Nawaz's advocacy, even if it were less disingenuous, is not helpful at all.

You should know by now that liberals can see through the crap you are promulgating. You've been exposed for months. I find it quite bone-headed that you would nonetheless try the exact same shtick time and again, and blame your bloody nose on those who expose you for what you are.

Right on cue, the repulsive Islamist plays the race card.

This is who the Regressives are. They try to put me on the defensive, cloud the issue, make this about me, avoid any hopeful conversation.

Look how they're behaving about a guy who's trying to bring some peace and sanity to this mess. What are they afraid of, do you suppose?

Fact is, they want him to fail - that's how protective they are of their chosen pet constituent oppressed religion - Fundamentalist Islamism.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Fortunately, there are still some REAL liberals out there.
.