Zone1 A Messianic Jew gives a testimony

[Votto]

nor either -

there will never be a messiah ... (sent from the heavens to save anyone) - there is little in difference between either jews or christians in their false beliefs.

 

[Votto]

Yes

Yes

No. Most likely a holdover tradition from polytheism.

No idea what you are referring to here, but it’s my contention that the meaning of the first eleven chapters has been obscured by time such that even Jews have lost that meaning.

Biblical Archaeology pretty much smashes to pieces that the entire OT is all allegory.

Try again.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Was the Great Flood allegory?

Was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah allegory?

Was the sacrificing of animals to cover sins allegory?

Was the Holy of Holies in the Temple allegory?

Yes it is complicated and Judaism is unique in that followers challenge and adapt the definition of the Tanakh as a manner of natural human progress. I personally find the Taomud my favourite source, view it as a form.of details, advanced "Coles Notes". Compare this approach to some extremist purvetors who follow.a religion which are stuck in a time.over 1000 years ago. Thus, the sacrifices of animals was deemed to have an honest replacement of prayer after the Temple was destroyed etc.

 

[BreezeWood]

View attachment 1157351

all the heavens see the illusion - to be saved, jews and christians alike as being the same.

 

[BackAgain]

Doesn’t exist. You’re either a Jew or a xtian.

You can’t be both.

Q.: What’s another name for the group called “Jews for Jesus?”

A.: “Christians.”

A long time colleague and friend of mine, who is Jewish, once shared that one with me, his goy pal.

He wasn’t wrong.

 

[Votto]

Q.: What’s another name for the group called “Jews for Jesus?”

A.: “Christians.”

A long time colleague and friend of mine, who is Jewish, once shared that one with me, his goy pal.

He wasn’t wrong.

A Jewish man's son leaves, and returns home a Christian​

The man goes to discuss the matter with his Jewish neighbor.

"It happened with my son, too! He left home Jewish and came back a few days later a Christian."

They go to talk to the rabbi about this issue. "You're not gonna believe this," the rabbi told them. "My Jewish son also left and came back a Christian!"

So they had to take it a level higher. The rabbi talked to God, "our sons are leaving home and returning as Christians! What's going on?"

God replies "so, you're not gonna believe this..."

 

[Hafar1014]

the heavens - the jews as the other two have abandoned monotheism for monarchicalsm.

OK youre confused maybe God can help you

 

[Votto]

OK youre confused maybe God can help you

Is God allegory?

Or does God actually exist?

 

[Hafar1014]

Your whole premise is sin is a way to discipline man. In other words, they sin and bad things happen to them to help instruct them on a better way to behave. You seem to admit on some level that bad things happen to people who sin, but on the other hand pretend it is of no consequence when we sin.

Very odd.

You do realize that even if the Bible is allegory, it all centers around the concept of sin, right? You also have to concede that nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that sin is no big deal.

No, quite the contrary.

Your preoccupied with sin when you need to focus on morals as the answer. Jews elevate morals as the message Christians elevate sin because the whole point of Christianity is control by fear.

 

[Votto]

Your preoccupied with sin when you need to focus on morals as the answer. Jews elevate morals as the message Christians elevate sin because the whole point of Christianity is control by fear.

Calm down, I just wondered how much of the Bible was really allegory to you?

Was Moses a real person or allegory?

Was God?

 

[ding]

Biblical Archaeology pretty much smashes to pieces that the entire OT is all allegory.

Try again.

I didn’t say the entire OT is allegory. The first 11 chapters are. Beyond that we would need to take it on a case by case basis. And even then we would need to distinguish between embellishments and the point of each account.

 

[Votto]

I didn’t say the entire OT is allegory. The first 11 chapters are. Beyond that we would need to take it on a case by case basis. And even then we would need to distinguish between embellishments and the point of each account.

Why? Who is the allegory police?

Also, to even know what a flood is one would have to experience one which means there was one. The only question becomes, how big and all the details surrounding it. So, no, I don't think the flood had anything to do with allegory.

Sorry.

This is driven home by the fact that there are flood stories throughout ancient cultures in that region.

Again, this is not allegory.

 

[ding]

Why? Who is the allegory police?

Also, to even know what a flood is one would have to experience one which means there was one. The only question becomes, how big and all the details surrounding it. So, no, I don't think the flood had anything to do with allegory.

Sorry.

This is driven home by the fact that there are flood stories throughout ancient cultures in that region.

Again, this is not allegory.

Truth and logic - of which God is both - are the final arbiter. You have a brain. Use it.

The flood is an historical event of an unusual extraordinary flood that did occur. It was so unusual and extraordinary that that history was worth passing down. That is the main point that was being passed down. They used embellishment and morals to make the account more memorable and easier to pass down. That’s how they passed down history, wisdom and other important information that was worth passing down. Orally. In stories. From generation to generation. For thousands of years. They weren’t writing a bible.

These accounts were authored in a time when polytheism was the dominant belief. These were the accounts of the first monotheists and have a monotheistic slant that differed from the polytheistic accounts of the day.

 

[Votto]

Truth and logic - of which God is both - are the final arbiter. You have a brain. Use it.

The flood is an historical event of an unusual extraordinary flood that did occur. It was so unusual and extraordinary that that history was worth passing down. That is the main point that was being passed down. They used embellishment and morals to make the account more memorable and easier to pass down. That’s how they passed down history, wisdom and other important information that was worth passing down. Orally. In stories. From generation to generation. For thousands of years. They weren’t writing a bible.

These accounts were authored in a time when polytheism was the dominant belief. These were the accounts of the first monotheists and have a monotheistic slant that differed from the polytheistic accounts of the day.

But you claim that the first 11 chapters in Genesis were allegory.

The Great Flood is in those first 11 chapters.

Speculating as to whether the events chronicled are accurate or not is merely opinions.

 

[ding]

But you claim that the first 11 chapters in Genesis were allegory.

The Great Flood is in those first 11 chapters.

Speculating as to whether the events chronicled are accurate or not is merely opinions.

What part of an allegorical description of an historical event don’t you understand?

They used embellishment and morals to make the account more memorable and easier to pass down. That’s how they passed down HISTORY, wisdom and other important information that was worth passing down. Orally. In stories. From generation to generation. For thousands of years. They weren’t writing a bible.

 

[Votto]

What part of an allegorical description of an historical event don’t you understand?

They used embellishment and morals to make the account more memorable and easier to pass down. That’s how they passed down HISTORY, wisdom and other important information that was worth passing down. Orally. In stories. From generation to generation. For thousands of years. They weren’t writing a bible.

Again, there was a great flood which means the flood was not allegory.

Not sure how this is hard to understand.

Naturally, we all give our "spin" on reality.

For instance, if the Great Flood happened today the Left would blame it on Trump's tariffs.

 

[Hafar1014]

What part of an allegorical description of an historical event don’t you understand?

They used embellishment and morals to make the account more memorable and easier to pass down. That’s how they passed down HISTORY, wisdom and other important information that was worth passing down. Orally. In stories. From generation to generation. For thousands of years. They weren’t writing a bible.

The flood is metaphor it never happened

 

[ding]

Again, there was a great flood which means the flood was not allegory.

Not sure how this is hard to understand.

Naturally, we all give our "spin" on reality.

For instance, if the Great Flood happened today the Left would blame it on Trump's tariffs.

The description of the flood was allegorical. God didn’t send a flood to kill evil and start over. That was them expressing their belief that life is unfair and that God is providential. Beliefs that are prevalent throughout the OT.

 

[ding]

The flood is metaphor it never happened

I disagree. I believe there was an historical event of a widespread, unusual, extraordinary flood such as what would have happened from an asteroid strike that vaporized millions of tons of water and affected rain patterns around the globe.

 

[Hafar1014]

I disagree. I believe there was an historical event of a widespread, unusual, extraordinary flood such as what would have happened from an asteroid strike that vaporized millions of tons of water and affected rain patterns around the globe.

The end of the ice age produced as flood but the ark story is clearly not possible