Zone1 A Messianic Jew gives a testimony

[BreezeWood]

Since there is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis there is no reason for Jesus to exist.
It was Gods plan all along that Adam eats the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. It cant be sin to follow Gods plan. The plan was the moral teaching of man.
Adam had no idea what sin was BEFORE he ate the fruit. Therefor he cant sin you have to know your sinning with intent.

Genesis is a beautiful allegory far in advance of its time that explains mans inherent need for meaning (let there be enlightenment) before there was sun. The importance of free will and moral values, mans ability to evolve form the lower to high state of existence, Gods plan to grant humanity autonomy when Adam passed the Trial for mans Freedom.

Christians turned this into a story of fear sin the Fall of man added satan who doesnt exist to create dogma for the myth of Jesus.

Lucifer is the bearer of light. Not the devil Christians didnt want enlightened followers they want fearful followers easy to control.
I read it in Hebrew

The importance of free will and moral values, mans ability to evolve form the lower to high state of existence, Gods plan to grant humanity autonomy when Adam passed the Trial for mans Freedom.

they did so for all of the heavenly creations, living beings - set free for each individuals self determination.

Then they said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

life is the same for all living beings ... 1st century correction, repudiation of judaism.

 

[BreezeWood]

religious Jews are commanded to study the bible text so we do

another moses fantasy, there are no commands from the heavens than their goal granted a&e to triumph between good and evil for judgement and admission to the everlasting if ever accomplished - nor is any bible required reading.

 

[BreezeWood]

It absolutely is Gods plan if you can read Hebrew its easy to see. If you cant you have no idea what it means.

is that what abraham taught the jews ... a part of judaism hereditary idolatry.

the goal granted a&e only 6 words in length - the triumph of good vs evil - is known instinctively by all living beings, can be spoke in any language without translation and will remain the same for all eternity.

 

[Votto]

Thats a very strange question
According to the allegory man was created with free will but no moral awareness. Literally an animal with divine potential {Likeness). God then taught man morals and tested him by allowing him to reject or choose God. That was the trial for mans freedom. In the end Adam chose to come to God of his own free will. God didnt want us to be like ants or bees.

Christianity got this all wrong and creasted the Fasll oif man and originals sin which isnt described or mentioned. They created a devil that never existed.
Lucifer is the bearer of light (enlightenment)

The Torah told Adam that if you sin you die.

Then you act like that was a good thing.

Very odd.

 

[Hafar1014]

The Torah told Adam that if you sin you die.

Then you act like that was a good thing.

Very odd.

Did he die? No because God was testing his free will. Man's most sacred privilege The ability to disobey God is free will. It was a test. Thus begins the moral discipline of man. Thats the explanation by Orthodox Jews. They ate and did not die.
Now on to the trial for mans freedom not the fall of man

 

[Meriweather]

Thats a very strange question
According to the allegory man was created with free will but no moral awareness. Literally an animal with divine potential {Likeness). God then taught man morals and tested him by allowing him to reject or choose God. That was the trial for mans freedom. In the end Adam chose to come to God of his own free will. God didnt want us to be like ants or bees.

Christianity got this all wrong and creasted the Fasll oif man and originals sin which isnt described or mentioned. They created a devil that never existed.
Lucifer is the bearer of light (enlightenment)

Did Adam and Eve disobey God?

"Lucifer" is not the bearer of light. In the Old Testament it is in reference to a king.

No one is debating free will.

 

[Votto]

Did he die? No because God was testing his free will. Man's most sacred privilege The ability to disobey God is free will. It was a test. Thus begins the moral discipline of man. Thats the explanation by Orthodox Jews. They ate and did not die.
Now on to the trial for mans freedom not the fall of man

Your whole premise is sin is a way to discipline man. In other words, they sin and bad things happen to them to help instruct them on a better way to behave. You seem to admit on some level that bad things happen to people who sin, but on the other hand pretend it is of no consequence when we sin.

Very odd.

You do realize that even if the Bible is allegory, it all centers around the concept of sin, right? You also have to concede that nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that sin is no big deal.

No, quite the contrary.

 

[fncceo]

A Messianic Jew​

Doesn’t exist. You’re either a Jew or a xtian.

You can’t be both.

 

[ding]

Since there is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis there is no reason for Jesus to exist.
It was Gods plan all along that Adam eats the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. It cant be sin to follow Gods plan. The plan was the moral teaching of man.
Adam had no idea what sin was BEFORE he ate the fruit. Therefor he cant sin you have to know your sinning with intent.

Genesis is a beautiful allegory far in advance of its time that explains mans inherent need for meaning (let there be enlightenment) before there was sun. The importance of free will and moral values, mans ability to evolve form the lower to high state of existence, Gods plan to grant humanity autonomy when Adam passed the Trial for mans Freedom.

Christians turned this into a story of fear sin the Fall of man added satan who doesnt exist to create dogma for the myth of Jesus.

Lucifer is the bearer of light. Not the devil Christians didnt want enlightened followers they want fearful followers easy to control.
I read it in Hebrew

Not really what the OP was about, Don Quixote.

 

[ding]

Doesn’t exist. You’re either a Jew or a xtian.

You can’t be both.

Semantics.

 

[Votto]

Doesn’t exist. You’re either a Jew or a xtian.

You can’t be both.

Reminds me of a friend of mine that was a Christian dating a Catholic. Her friends looked at her and said, "You can't date a Christian, you are Catholic."



I don't think any of the disciples gave up their identity as being Jewish. In fact, Judaism was the reason they were even seeking their Messiah.

 

[ding]

Was the Great Flood allegory?

Yes

Was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah allegory?

Yes

Was the sacrificing of animals to cover sins allegory?

No. Most likely a holdover tradition from polytheism.

Was the Holy of Holies in the Temple allegory?

No idea what you are referring to here, but it’s my contention that the meaning of the first eleven chapters has been obscured by time such that even Jews have lost that meaning.

 

[ding]

There's a better way than flaming each other to find the truth.

Modern and more intelligent Christians and Atheists have come to understand that the bibles are not the truth.

It's not sinful to believe that the bible lies for a good purpose. Our ding has instructed everybody several times over that the bibles are nothing more than allegorical teaching.

And too, spamming of religions can be kept out of the religion section please?

You’re a dolt.

 

[ding]

Reminds me of a friend of mine that was a Christian dating a Catholic. Her friends looked at her and said, "You can't date a Christian, you are Catholic."



I don't think any of the disciples gave up their identity as being Jewish. In fact, Judaism was the reason they were even seeking their Messiah.

You kind of botched that joke with your Freudian slip. Yes, Protestants can be quite judgy.

You being such a good Christian, can you cite the passage where Paul worked through his dilemma concerning his choice in believing Jesus is God?

 

[ding]

I think that the Christian persecution of the Jews in times past has done much damage to Jews coming to Christ, at least the testimony given indicates this.

How many Jews here feel the same?

Maybe. People hold grudges for all sorts of reasons. Most are irrational and do nothing more than create bias that clouds their perception of reality.

Given the choice between atheism and Christianity for a fellow tribesman, most God fearing Jews would wish atheism upon them. Now that’s some bias.

 

[ding]

Jews have never 'come to Christ' in great numbers, either at the birth of Christianity or now.

When was the birth of Christianity?

 

[ding]

Jews have never 'come to Christ' in great numbers, either at the birth of Christianity or now.

Does this sound about right?

There are no exact numbers for how many Jews converted to Christianity at its beginning, but early estimates suggest a range from a few hundred to a thousand, with some sources citing the thousands converted on the Day of Pentecost. While the early Jesus movement was largely Jewish, the overall percentage of Jewish converts remained small, with the movement quickly becoming predominantly Gentile.

 

[GMCGeneral]

I think this video deals more with Jewish predispositions about Jesus than about Christianity. Forgive the political reference, but it seems to be akin to TDS in that whatever Christians are for, Jews must be against.

Why is it almost impossible for most Jews (at least on this forum) to acknowledge Jesus as an historical personage who arguably fulfilled the messianic prophecies of the "Old Testament?" Why is it heretical to even speak of him?

I do not think such a recognition necessarily leads to belief in the Christian doctrines that were developed after his death, so I am fascinated by the "north and south" (i.e., all or nothing) attitude that the speaker initially expressed in response to his daughter's new beliefs.

For a people with a history of outstanding intellectual achievements, this Jewish resistance to even considering any of Jesus' reported teachings seems to be a curious anomaly.

It all comes down to the fact that Jews have hardened their hearts towards YHWH and His plan of Salvation which is abundantly spelled out throughout all of Scripture. This is why Yeshua called out the Scribes and Pharisees of His day, calling them "Vipers", "Hypocrites", etc. Because He is the absolute authority.

 

[BreezeWood]

No because God was testing his free will.

the heavens - the jews as the other two have abandoned monotheism for monarchicalsm.

 

[BreezeWood]

Doesn’t exist. You’re either a Jew or a xtian.

You can’t be both.

nor either -

there will never be a messiah ... (sent from the heavens to save anyone) - there is little in difference between either jews or christians in their false beliefs.