A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[anotherlife]

a lot of christians and believers just don't get it

Just because you prefer to be a sitting duck, it doesn't mean you will not get shot at.

there is no god
religion is man made fairytales
and you can't prove there is a god/etc
plain and simple

If there is no God, then where do you go to stop the free fall of you or your friends? Even if religion is man made, it has objective results on individuals individually, therefore could as well be just God made.

 

[emilynghiem]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Dear @RosISHI
Some get the concept of connection with the collective level,
but just don't perceive the universe or nature in terms of a PERSONIFIED entity.

Some don't get the connection at all.

There are at least 3 different levels where there are conflicts
and not every person has conflicts on all these levels:
1. the CONCEPT of an abstract connection by conscience or consciousness
2. the REPRESENTATION of the source of nature or laws as a PERSONIFIED entity or deity
3. the idea that people with these different perceptions would be able to communicate
ANYWAY (even if we don't see things the same way) as long as we FORGIVE and INCLUDE each other
instead of rejecting and refusing to communicate even WITH these differences going on.

Some people don't even get #1.
Some get #1 but not #2.

And lots of people get stuck on #3, both theists and nontheists, don't get that FORGIVENESS
allows us to work with different perceptions and perspectives and still be
able to communicate even without changing anyone's beliefs.

 

[Vandalshandle]

So agnostics already know that the devil exists.

Well that's utter nonsense...

Why? Don't they teach this agnosticism in schools to children, in order to subjugate them to the devil faster?

I don't know what you are smoking, but I suggest that you avoid the paranoids who have been selling it to you.

Ok, but if you face danger of anything and someone tells you that there is no danger, then what do you say when you get hurt?

"ouch".

 

[anotherlife]

So agnostics already know that the devil exists.

Well that's utter nonsense...

Why? Don't they teach this agnosticism in schools to children, in order to subjugate them to the devil faster?

I don't know what you are smoking, but I suggest that you avoid the paranoids who have been selling it to you.

Ok, but if you face danger of anything and someone tells you that there is no danger, then what do you say when you get hurt?

"ouch".

 

[harmonica]

a lot of christians and believers just don't get it

Just because you prefer to be a sitting duck, it doesn't mean you will not get shot at.

there is no god
religion is man made fairytales
and you can't prove there is a god/etc
plain and simple

If there is no God, then where do you go to stop the free fall of you or your friends? Even if religion is man made, it has objective results on individuals individually, therefore could as well be just God made.

no proof there .....

 

[diver52]

As I said, I really don't get how you can accept this and take comfort from it.

It is not a matter of comfort, it is a matter of understanding the point(s) the original authors were passing on. To understand, one must let go of modern English and modern culture and study ancient languages and ancient cultures.

I do understand the points. They really aren't that difficult to understand. Perhaps I just look at those points from a different angle. For example, the story of Job is generally seen as a message about consistency of faith. The focus is on Job. But if you focus instead upon God in the story, then it is about uncaring pettiness and ego. Innocent people and animals were butchered just so God could say, "I told you so."

 

[diver52]

Agnostics don't assume the existence of God. But do they assume the existence of Satan?

No.

Even contrary to well established physical proofs of it in therapies as well as prisons, and schools?

What physical proofs are you talking about?

 

[diver52]

As far as I can see, God is the absence of goodness and love.

When you meet Him, you will be amazed. As will I continue to be amazed.

All I have to go on is what is in the Bible. At least to evaluate the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

 

[Meriweather]

I do understand the points. They really aren't that difficult to understand. Perhaps I just look at those points from a different angle. For example, the story of Job is generally seen as a message about consistency of faith. The focus is on Job. But if you focus instead upon God in the story, then it is about uncaring pettiness and ego. Innocent people and animals were butchered just so God could say, "I told you so."

Focusing on God creates an entirely different story than the original author intended and the original audience recognized. May as well place your own name on that one and speak to your 21st century audience. For the author Job and the people of that time, it was a foregone conclusion that God was good and loving, and that people had a hard time meeting that ideal. It answers the question of, "What about when people are close to that ideal? Why do bad things still happen to good people?"

 

[Meriweather]

All I have to go on is what is in the Bible. At least to evaluate the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Perhaps all that is going on is an evaluation of the Bible through the lens of our modern day culture as written and portrayed in modern English. The culture and ancient language present something entirely different.

 

[diver52]

I do understand the points. They really aren't that difficult to understand. Perhaps I just look at those points from a different angle. For example, the story of Job is generally seen as a message about consistency of faith. The focus is on Job. But if you focus instead upon God in the story, then it is about uncaring pettiness and ego. Innocent people and animals were butchered just so God could say, "I told you so."

Focusing on God creates an entirely different story than the original author intended and the original audience recognized. May as well place your own name on that one and speak to your 21st century audience. For the author Job and the people of that time, it was a foregone conclusion that God was good and loving, and that people had a hard time meeting that ideal. It answers the question of, "What about when people are close to that ideal? Why do bad things still happen to good people?"

And there lies the problem for me. I place no forgone conclusion as to the nature of God. If God acts in a particular manner, then my evaluation is based upon that action. For God to be good, then God must act good. Jesus said it well. You shall know them by their fruits.

 

[diver52]

All I have to go on is what is in the Bible. At least to evaluate the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Perhaps all that is going on is an evaluation of the Bible through the lens of our modern day culture as written and portrayed in modern English. The culture and ancient language present something entirely different.

Certainly true if the Bible is simply an historical text. There is much in it which justifies behavior which would be unacceptable today. But if all it is is an historical text, then it has nothing to do with God. Personally, I consider that to be the case.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

All I have to go on is what is in the Bible. At least to evaluate the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Perhaps all that is going on is an evaluation of the Bible through the lens of our modern day culture as written and portrayed in modern English. The culture and ancient language present something entirely different.

Certainly true if the Bible is simply an historical text. There is much in it which justifies behavior which would be unacceptable today. But if all it is is an historical text, then it has nothing to do with God. Personally, I consider that to be the case.

The Bible cannot simply be a "historical text". It makes nonsensical claims about divinity and miracles. Those books don't go in the history section. They go in the fiction section. The harry potter series mentions London...does that mean it goes into the history section, one day? Nope.

 

[diver52]

All I have to go on is what is in the Bible. At least to evaluate the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Perhaps all that is going on is an evaluation of the Bible through the lens of our modern day culture as written and portrayed in modern English. The culture and ancient language present something entirely different.

Certainly true if the Bible is simply an historical text. There is much in it which justifies behavior which would be unacceptable today. But if all it is is an historical text, then it has nothing to do with God. Personally, I consider that to be the case.

The Bible cannot simply be a "historical text". It makes nonsensical claims about divinity and miracles. Those books don't go in the history section. They go in the fiction section. The harry potter series mentions London...does that mean it goes into the history section, one day? Nope.

I didn't say it was a book of history, but that is an historical text. I've read any number of history books which reference the Bible. Have you read the Bible?

 

[RodISHI]

I am curious though. On what basis do you state that God is good? I find nothing in either the Old or New Testament to support that conclusion. Quite the contrary.

Both Old and New Testaments proclaim the goodness and love of God. The New Testament describes God as "Abba", meaning Father, or perhaps more accurately, Daddy.

I am fond of advising, First seek and find God--then read the Bible. I will not go into details, but I have experienced the love of God, which has given me a very strong belief that God loves everyone. Since that came at a young age, like so many I wondered why so many accounts of God's actions seem quite contrary to love and goodness. How could Biblical authors get so much wrong?

That had me delving into the history and cultures of Biblical times--and Rabbinical teachings. First, the original authors and audiences were not questioning the goodness and love of God. That was a given. Their focus was on the failure of humans to love and to be good. God's actions were seen as necessary for justice; and also pointed out how God's mercy was ever present in His justice.

The other subject I studied was science, because I believe science, as much or perhaps more so than Scripture, can also be a tremendous revelation about God.

The problem with hearing Bible stories as children is that children have an innate--and great--sense of fairness. If, as children, we are not taught what the original authors intended us to learn, as children we are going to jump to our own conclusions. Further, by the time we are teens, we have heard Bible stories so often, many of us are convinced we are well versed in the Bible and religion when nothing can be further from the truth.

Saint Theresa of Avila, author of the Interior Castle, noted that even most of us who faithfully attend religious services and pray regularly, only reach the entry way, or perhaps the first story, of that seven story Interior Castle. Getting people that far takes great effort--and people have to expend even greater effort in living their lives without also finding times to explore all the rooms on the first floor of the castle, let alone all the rooms on the other six floors. However, being aware that they are there for us can be of great encouragement and help to us.

Going back to the main point--and the most vital: Seek and find God, and the Bible takes on a whole new meaning than it does to a child who is just beginning to learn and understand.

What I notice here is while you say God is good, you provide not a single reference in the Bible where God is actually being good. I don't blame you since I never found one myself.

In any case, I am not trying to dissuade you from your beliefs. If you find comfort in them I truly am happy for you. For me, it is incomprehensible and I am not at all unhappy with it. I am just sharing my point of view with you, which in no way diminishes your point of view.

KJV

Matthew
19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark
10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[RodISHI]

As I said, I really don't get how you can accept this and take comfort from it.

It is not a matter of comfort, it is a matter of understanding the point(s) the original authors were passing on. To understand, one must let go of modern English and modern culture and study ancient languages and ancient cultures.

I do understand the points. They really aren't that difficult to understand. Perhaps I just look at those points from a different angle. For example, the story of Job is generally seen as a message about consistency of faith. The focus is on Job. But if you focus instead upon God in the story, then it is about uncaring pettiness and ego. Innocent people and animals were butchered just so God could say, "I told you so."

"Animals butchered"? Are you sure about that?

 

[RodISHI]

 

[RodISHI]

Amazing Grace was written by a former slave trader John Newton.Born: August 4, 1725, Wapping, United Kingdom -Died: December 21, 1807, London, United Kingdom
While sailing a ship full of slaves from Africa his ship was hit by a fierce storm. Newton feared for his life and got down on his knees and begged the good Lord to spare his life. He promised the Lord that if he would only spare his life he would change his ways a stop trading slaves. The storm calmed down and Newton wrote the song Amazing Grace whilst full of sorrow and love and a hope that he could be forgiven for his sins. https://www.biography.com/news/amazing-grace-story-john-newton

This is one of the most powerful Gospel songs ever written.

Amazing Grace Amazing grace, How sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found, Was blind, but now I see, 'Twas grace that taught my heart to feel, And grace my fears relieved, How precious did that grace appear, The hour I first believed.
Through many dangers toils and snares, We have already come,
'Twas grace that brought us safe that far And grace will lead us home, When we’ve been there ten thousand years, Bright shining as the sun, We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise Than when we’d first begun, Amazing grace, How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me, I once was lost but now I'm found, Was blind but now I see.

 

[anotherlife]

a lot of christians and believers just don't get it

Just because you prefer to be a sitting duck, it doesn't mean you will not get shot at.

there is no god
religion is man made fairytales
and you can't prove there is a god/etc
plain and simple

If there is no God, then where do you go to stop the free fall of you or your friends? Even if religion is man made, it has objective results on individuals individually, therefore could as well be just God made.

no proof there .....

Okay, it is easier to prove that there is a devil, because mind altering techniques are used wide spread. So, the question is, that if there is a devil, then why wouldn't be there an anti devil called God? I don't demand symmetry though.

 

[anotherlife]

Agnostics don't assume the existence of God. But do they assume the existence of Satan?

No.

Even contrary to well established physical proofs of it in therapies as well as prisons, and schools?

What physical proofs are you talking about?

There are many physical proofs for the existence of the devil. For example in prisons, everything is replaced with fear and anxiety. In the cases of child abuse similarly. The two basic human emotions are fear and love, the exact opposite of each other. Fear is established by the devil, and love is established by God. Fear results in agony and death, love results in happiness and life. Physically observable and very simple. Why is it not undeniable? Because power play expectations skew it all.