A little post mortem

[Mac1958]

Precisely.
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No, what I said seems to have flown right past your head. You seem to have drank the post-modernist cool-aid where everything is an opinion and there are no facts.

I honestly don't know how to communicate with someone who no longer recognizes the difference between fact and opinion.

I deal with this pretty regularly with people on both ends of the spectrum, hence my sig.
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"Clinton was a terrible, terrible candidate, one of the worst ones ever. Trump said some stupid things. Therefore Trump is better, end of story. Not an opinion, but an argument."

Yes, there is a value judgement. I think criminality is worse than saying stupid things, the justice system and all reasonable people agree. But yeah, it's an opinion just like the preferred taste of an ice cream.

No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments, it's not like picking an ice cream where opinion is all that counts. If you missed this you are an idiot.

"No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments."

Oh, okay, great.

I didn't see the scoreboard. What were the scores? I'm sure they were tabulated in a very objective way.

Link, please.
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Yes they were. It's not an opinion that Clinton is under 4 different FBI investigations. It's no an opinion she cheated on the debates... it's not an opinion that she lied a lot about the emails. These are all facts.

Given that people prefer people who say mean things rather than criminals... of course, there are some bigots, who would vote for a criminal if it meant they get free stuff or whatever.

Just show me the empirical evidence that one candidate is "better" than the other and we're good.

Highlighting one candidate's faults while minimizing those of the other is not empirical evidence.
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[Norman]

No, what I said seems to have flown right past your head. You seem to have drank the post-modernist cool-aid where everything is an opinion and there are no facts.

I honestly don't know how to communicate with someone who no longer recognizes the difference between fact and opinion.

I deal with this pretty regularly with people on both ends of the spectrum, hence my sig.
.

"Clinton was a terrible, terrible candidate, one of the worst ones ever. Trump said some stupid things. Therefore Trump is better, end of story. Not an opinion, but an argument."

Yes, there is a value judgement. I think criminality is worse than saying stupid things, the justice system and all reasonable people agree. But yeah, it's an opinion just like the preferred taste of an ice cream.

No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments, it's not like picking an ice cream where opinion is all that counts. If you missed this you are an idiot.

"No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments."

Oh, okay, great.

I didn't see the scoreboard. What were the scores? I'm sure they were tabulated in a very objective way.

Link, please.
.

Yes they were. It's not an opinion that Clinton is under 4 different FBI investigations. It's no an opinion she cheated on the debates... it's not an opinion that she lied a lot about the emails. These are all facts.

Given that people prefer people who say mean things rather than criminals... of course, there are some bigots, who would vote for a criminal if it meant they get free stuff or whatever.

Just show me the empirical evidence that one candidate is "better" than the other and we're good.

Highlighting one candidate's faults while minimizing those of the other is not empirical evidence.
.

Trump made a bunch of stupid statements and was mean.

Clinton is a criminal, and she made some stupid statements on top, she actually was mean to a lot of people as well.


Being criminal is considered worse than making stupid statements, by all friends of civilization. And of course, people demonstrate this preference by virtue of action repeatedly. If you accept that standard, Clinton loses as the worse candidate, end of story.

If you don't accept that, then 3rd world is the place for you. Looking at the anti-democratic mobs, it probably would be a better suited place for them.

 

[Mac1958]

I honestly don't know how to communicate with someone who no longer recognizes the difference between fact and opinion.

I deal with this pretty regularly with people on both ends of the spectrum, hence my sig.
.

"Clinton was a terrible, terrible candidate, one of the worst ones ever. Trump said some stupid things. Therefore Trump is better, end of story. Not an opinion, but an argument."

Yes, there is a value judgement. I think criminality is worse than saying stupid things, the justice system and all reasonable people agree. But yeah, it's an opinion just like the preferred taste of an ice cream.

No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments, it's not like picking an ice cream where opinion is all that counts. If you missed this you are an idiot.

"No dude... the point of democracy is to pick the candidate who wins the arguments."

Oh, okay, great.

I didn't see the scoreboard. What were the scores? I'm sure they were tabulated in a very objective way.

Link, please.
.

Yes they were. It's not an opinion that Clinton is under 4 different FBI investigations. It's no an opinion she cheated on the debates... it's not an opinion that she lied a lot about the emails. These are all facts.

Given that people prefer people who say mean things rather than criminals... of course, there are some bigots, who would vote for a criminal if it meant they get free stuff or whatever.

Just show me the empirical evidence that one candidate is "better" than the other and we're good.

Highlighting one candidate's faults while minimizing those of the other is not empirical evidence.
.

Trump made a bunch of stupid statements and was mean.

Clinton is a criminal, and she made some stupid statements on top, she actually was mean to a lot of people as well.


Being criminal is considered worse than making stupid statements, by all friends of civilization. And of course, people demonstrate this preference by virtue of action repeatedly. If you accept that standard, Clinton loses as the worse candidate, end of story.

If you don't accept that, then 3rd world is the place for you. Looking at the anti-democratic mobs, it probably would be a better suited place for them.

Okie dokie!
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[Redfish]

OK, cool. But its obvious that your opinions of Trump were shaped by the false impression created by the corrupt media and the DNC. He is not a PC politician, he talks like a normal man, like you and I talk. He is real, not a fake image like Hillary.

Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt human being ever to run for any public office. The country is much better off with the Clinton crime family out of power.

I'll never be able to convince you that my opinions of him are based on direct observation. Okay.

As stunned as I am, I am hoping for the best, as always.
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I am glad you are hoping for the best, so am I.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the media has controlled what you have "observed" about Trump. The media created an image that is contrary to what his employees, business associates, and others who know him say about him.

But believe whatever you want. The important thing is that the Clinton crime cartel will never again have any political power in this country.

I was in that business for nearly 20 years, I know precisely how they play.

It's his words and behaviors that shaped my opinion, the press was noise to me.

We'll see, here's hoping.
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Did you not observe his opponent? She is the most corrupt hypocrite I've observed, and I've been observing her for a long time. She does not care about women, as she proved while on bimbo eruption control. She ruined those women, women her husband assaulted or was inappropriate with. She does not care about her country or she would not jeapordize the US by being extremely careless with national secrets because she was lazy or didnt want the inconvenience. Why the hell did she have people printing so much classified information????? She purposely skirted FoI with her bleached server. She did not want her stuff archived. Why???

She was the worst possible candidate, worse than Trump, even. Blame the DNC for cheating her onto the ballot even after "discouraging" any viable D opponent. She had to cheat to beat Crazy Uncle Bernie, who wasn't even a democrat. Her own party did not want her. The rest of us sure as hell didn't. How can anyone be surprised she lost?!?! It is absurd.

"Worse than Trump". That's not a fact, it's opinion. 50% agree, 50% disagree.

We had two horrible, terrible choices, and one of them won. It is what it is.
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your conclusions are based on personality (or your perception thereof) not on facts.

Sadly, many people vote personality rather than capability.

What is even more distressing is that you bought into the media creation of Trump's personality, and ignored the inputs of his employees, friends, business associates, and family.

 

[Missourian]

I think overall half of us just didn't understand the rage that it took to vote for Trump. Enough rage to ignore his myriad faults and weaknesses and behaviors and words and everything else. THAT is a LOT of rage right there..

Says a Hillary supporter..

I voted for her because I found Trump even more repulsive than her.

Maybe you could just comment on the point made.
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MAC! You voted for Hillary? That is terribly disappointing.

 

[Mac1958]

I'll never be able to convince you that my opinions of him are based on direct observation. Okay.

As stunned as I am, I am hoping for the best, as always.
.

I am glad you are hoping for the best, so am I.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the media has controlled what you have "observed" about Trump. The media created an image that is contrary to what his employees, business associates, and others who know him say about him.

But believe whatever you want. The important thing is that the Clinton crime cartel will never again have any political power in this country.

I was in that business for nearly 20 years, I know precisely how they play.

It's his words and behaviors that shaped my opinion, the press was noise to me.

We'll see, here's hoping.
.

Did you not observe his opponent? She is the most corrupt hypocrite I've observed, and I've been observing her for a long time. She does not care about women, as she proved while on bimbo eruption control. She ruined those women, women her husband assaulted or was inappropriate with. She does not care about her country or she would not jeapordize the US by being extremely careless with national secrets because she was lazy or didnt want the inconvenience. Why the hell did she have people printing so much classified information????? She purposely skirted FoI with her bleached server. She did not want her stuff archived. Why???

She was the worst possible candidate, worse than Trump, even. Blame the DNC for cheating her onto the ballot even after "discouraging" any viable D opponent. She had to cheat to beat Crazy Uncle Bernie, who wasn't even a democrat. Her own party did not want her. The rest of us sure as hell didn't. How can anyone be surprised she lost?!?! It is absurd.

"Worse than Trump". That's not a fact, it's opinion. 50% agree, 50% disagree.

We had two horrible, terrible choices, and one of them won. It is what it is.
.

your conclusions are based on personality (or your perception thereof) not on facts.

Sadly, many people vote personality rather than capability.

What is even more distressing is that you bought into the media creation of Trump's personality, and ignored the inputs of his employees, friends, business associates, and family.

And you bought into the shallow, binary thought processes of conservative talk radio and right wing internet.

Looks like we're even.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I think overall half of us just didn't understand the rage that it took to vote for Trump. Enough rage to ignore his myriad faults and weaknesses and behaviors and words and everything else. THAT is a LOT of rage right there..

Says a Hillary supporter..

I voted for her because I found Trump even more repulsive than her.

Maybe you could just comment on the point made.
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MAC! You voted for Hillary? That is terribly disappointing.

Two horrible choices, the crook vs. the buffoon.

I hold both parties responsible for that abomination.
.

 

[Redfish]

I am glad you are hoping for the best, so am I.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the media has controlled what you have "observed" about Trump. The media created an image that is contrary to what his employees, business associates, and others who know him say about him.

But believe whatever you want. The important thing is that the Clinton crime cartel will never again have any political power in this country.

I was in that business for nearly 20 years, I know precisely how they play.

It's his words and behaviors that shaped my opinion, the press was noise to me.

We'll see, here's hoping.
.

Did you not observe his opponent? She is the most corrupt hypocrite I've observed, and I've been observing her for a long time. She does not care about women, as she proved while on bimbo eruption control. She ruined those women, women her husband assaulted or was inappropriate with. She does not care about her country or she would not jeapordize the US by being extremely careless with national secrets because she was lazy or didnt want the inconvenience. Why the hell did she have people printing so much classified information????? She purposely skirted FoI with her bleached server. She did not want her stuff archived. Why???

She was the worst possible candidate, worse than Trump, even. Blame the DNC for cheating her onto the ballot even after "discouraging" any viable D opponent. She had to cheat to beat Crazy Uncle Bernie, who wasn't even a democrat. Her own party did not want her. The rest of us sure as hell didn't. How can anyone be surprised she lost?!?! It is absurd.

"Worse than Trump". That's not a fact, it's opinion. 50% agree, 50% disagree.

We had two horrible, terrible choices, and one of them won. It is what it is.
.

your conclusions are based on personality (or your perception thereof) not on facts.

Sadly, many people vote personality rather than capability.

What is even more distressing is that you bought into the media creation of Trump's personality, and ignored the inputs of his employees, friends, business associates, and family.

And you bought into the shallow, binary thought processes of conservative talk radio and right wing internet.

Looks like we're even.
.

wrong, I listened to all sides and all forms of media and then drew my own conclusions about which candidate best fit my criteria for becoming president.

I could never vote for a proven liar, cheat, and probably felon like Hillary Clinton. She has been sucking the public tit for 30 years and has never accomplished anything except filling her own bank account and denigrating her husband's female victims. She is a terrible human being and would be a terrible president.

Trump does what he says he will do, he has been successful in the business world both nationally and internationally. He knows how to make things happen. He will be a very effective president.

 

[Mac1958]

I was in that business for nearly 20 years, I know precisely how they play.

It's his words and behaviors that shaped my opinion, the press was noise to me.

We'll see, here's hoping.
.

Did you not observe his opponent? She is the most corrupt hypocrite I've observed, and I've been observing her for a long time. She does not care about women, as she proved while on bimbo eruption control. She ruined those women, women her husband assaulted or was inappropriate with. She does not care about her country or she would not jeapordize the US by being extremely careless with national secrets because she was lazy or didnt want the inconvenience. Why the hell did she have people printing so much classified information????? She purposely skirted FoI with her bleached server. She did not want her stuff archived. Why???

She was the worst possible candidate, worse than Trump, even. Blame the DNC for cheating her onto the ballot even after "discouraging" any viable D opponent. She had to cheat to beat Crazy Uncle Bernie, who wasn't even a democrat. Her own party did not want her. The rest of us sure as hell didn't. How can anyone be surprised she lost?!?! It is absurd.

"Worse than Trump". That's not a fact, it's opinion. 50% agree, 50% disagree.

We had two horrible, terrible choices, and one of them won. It is what it is.
.

your conclusions are based on personality (or your perception thereof) not on facts.

Sadly, many people vote personality rather than capability.

What is even more distressing is that you bought into the media creation of Trump's personality, and ignored the inputs of his employees, friends, business associates, and family.

And you bought into the shallow, binary thought processes of conservative talk radio and right wing internet.

Looks like we're even.
.

wrong, I listened to all sides and all forms of media and then drew my own conclusions about which candidate best fit my criteria for becoming president.

I could never vote for a proven liar, cheat, and probably felon like Hillary Clinton. She has been sucking the public tit for 30 years and has never accomplished anything except filling her own bank account and denigrating her husband's female victims. She is a terrible human being and would be a terrible president.

Trump does what he says he will do, he has been successful in the business world both nationally and internationally. He knows how to make things happen. He will be a very effective president.

Looks like we'll have to disagree on how we came to our decisions then, eh?

I'm hopeful his presidency will be very, very successful.
.