A Liberal is a Libertarian addled with guilt and self loathing

[Luissa]

Oh yeah, it did....Everything devolved from that point on.

I was not talking about when the drugs became illegal, I am talking about the " War on drugs" started, when they actually started enforcing the laws and targeting drug trafficing.

That would be with the Marijuana Tax Stamp act.

The policy didn't come into being in one fell swoop.

I will say it again the " War on Drugs" didn't start until Nixon, which you obviously know since you didn't respond to the quote where I posted link backing that up. If I wanted to say the Republicans made it illegal I would have posted the Marijuana act, which is not when the " War on Drugs" started.

 

[Oddball]

I was not talking about when the drugs became illegal, I am talking about the " War on drugs" started, when they actually started enforcing the laws and targeting drug trafficing.

That would be with the Marijuana Tax Stamp act.

The policy didn't come into being in one fell swoop.

I will say it again the " War on Drugs" didn't start until Nixon, which you obviously know since you didn't respond to the quote where I posted link backing that up. If I wanted to say the Republicans made it illegal I would have posted the Marijuana act, which is not when the " War on Drugs" started.

Right...And all those laws making pot, cocaine, heroin, etcetera illegal in the meantime were just something that congress did as sort of a hobby.

That Nixon expanded and escalated the federal policy is irrelevant to the fact that it had been ongoing for decades.

 

[Luissa]

That would be with the Marijuana Tax Stamp act.

The policy didn't come into being in one fell swoop.

I will say it again the " War on Drugs" didn't start until Nixon, which you obviously know since you didn't respond to the quote where I posted link backing that up. If I wanted to say the Republicans made it illegal I would have posted the Marijuana act, which is not when the " War on Drugs" started.

Right...And all those laws making pot, cocaine, heroin, etcetera illegal in the meantime were just something that congress did as sort of a hobby.

That Nixon expanded and escalated the federal policy is irrelevant to the fact that it had been ongoing for decades.

That is great but when I said the Republicans started the War on Drugs, I meant the campaign NIxon started in 69, which was the first time it was called the War on Drugs. It was in response to Johson's War on Poverty. And the policies that were in place prior to the War on Drugs, were small time compared to what the US put in place after 69'. We for one were not really doing anything to combat trafficing.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Libertarians are not all pro-choice, not by a long shot. If you believe that life begins at conception then you would see aborting a fetus as a violation of that baby's natural right to their life, and if that's the case then you would not acknowledge the mother's right to violate the baby's right. That'd be very consistent with libertarianism.

 

[Modbert]

Not really.
Liberals generally want to restrict gun rights. Libertarians generally want to expand them.
Liberals want to control business practices, libertarians generally want to eliminate control.


But other than being totally wrong your post was spot on.

Except I'm for fair gun control, as should all people be including Libertarians. You just can't have no laws on business or guns.

 

[Modbert]

Dog we had this discussion via PM a while ago, or rather I did, you never responded back to me. I told you what mine, and many other libertarians' positions were and I didn't hear back from you.

Either you agree with those positions or not. If not, you're probably just a regular modern day liberal.

I find myself becoming more and more of a Libertarian. However, the theory of some Libertarians that the market can market itself without any regulations is delusional. As my title says, Who Watches the Watchmen?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So says a friend of mine.


What say you?

False. As a Libertarian, I am the true classical liberal. Those referred to as liberals today are really Socialists, Marxists, and Communists who have hijacked and bastardized the meaning of the word.

 

[Modbert]

Fuck the party that commandeered and obfuscated the ideology.

To Allign Libertarian ideology with the concept of "states" rights is to betray a fundamental ignorance of the ideology itself. A true Libertarian ideologue is pro-choice. For the same reasons he is pro keeping 100% of his productive earnings, yadda yadda.

Try to at least be consistent with the ideologies you espouse. mmkay?

The only people who try to say they are pro-life Libertarians are the religious ones like Ron Paul. However, if you don't let religion effect your thinking, you should be pro-choice as that is one of the definitive definitions of Libertarians.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Fuck the party that commandeered and obfuscated the ideology.

To Allign Libertarian ideology with the concept of "states" rights is to betray a fundamental ignorance of the ideology itself. A true Libertarian ideologue is pro-choice. For the same reasons he is pro keeping 100% of his productive earnings, yadda yadda.

Try to at least be consistent with the ideologies you espouse. mmkay?

The only people who try to say they are pro-life Libertarians are the religious ones like Ron Paul. However, if you don't let religion effect your thinking, you should be pro-choice as that is one of the definitive definitions of Libertarians.

Not true. I, for example, am not all that religious, and I would certainly lean pro-life.

 

[Anguille]

The only people who try to say they are pro-life Libertarians are the religious ones like Ron Paul. However, if you don't let religion effect your thinking, you should be pro-choice as that is one of the definitive definitions of Libertarians.

Expect to hear some differing on that. There are atheists who are pro forced birth.

 

[Modbert]

Not true. I, for example, am not all that religious, and I would certainly lean pro-life.

No offense Kevin, but how often do you disagree with Ron Paul?

Libertarians by definition should be pro-choice. You wouldn't want the Government coming in to tell you what to do with your children, but you want them to come in and tell a woman what to do with her body?

 

[Modbert]

Expect to hear some differing on that. There are atheists who are pro forced birth.

Oh I'm sure. And it will be nothing new.

And for everyone at home wondering.

Nixon was the one who officially began The War on Drugs in 1969.

War on Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not true. I, for example, am not all that religious, and I would certainly lean pro-life.

No offense Kevin, but how often do you disagree with Ron Paul?

Libertarians by definition should be pro-choice. You wouldn't want the Government coming in to tell you what to do with your children, but you want them to come in and tell a woman what to do with her body?

Not often. But if you'd like an example or two, he's religious and I'm not. We obviously have at least some difference there. Another example would be his stance on pork. I understand his position, and it's correct, but I don't think he should put the pork into the legislation in the first place.

But libertarians, by definition, do not have to be pro-choice as I've already explained. If you accept the notion that life begins at conception, then how could you accept the notion that a woman has the right to terminate that life simply because it's growing in her body? But that's why it's a complex issue, because it is her body.

 

[manifold]

Libertarians are not all pro-choice, not by a long shot. If you believe that life begins at conception then you would see aborting a fetus as a violation of that baby's natural right to their life, and if that's the case then you would not acknowledge the mother's right to violate the baby's right. That'd be very consistent with libertarianism.

If you're a fucking retard who doesn't understand the concept of individual liberty.

No offense.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Libertarians are not all pro-choice, not by a long shot. If you believe that life begins at conception then you would see aborting a fetus as a violation of that baby's natural right to their life, and if that's the case then you would not acknowledge the mother's right to violate the baby's right. That'd be very consistent with libertarianism.

If you're a fucking retard who doesn't understand the concept of individual liberty.

No offense.

None taken.

But I do understand the concept of individual liberty, and who's to say that the baby doesn't have natural rights and individual liberty the same as the mother?

 

[Modbert]

None taken.

But I do understand the concept of individual liberty, and who's to say that the baby doesn't have natural rights and individual liberty the same as the mother?

Well if that's the case, who should die if the mother needs to get a abortion to save her life? Should the mother sacrifice her child or should the mother sacrifice her life for the child?

 

[xotoxi]

What makes you the final arbiter of what is or isn't contrary to any philosophy?

It's just mani being mani.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

None taken.

But I do understand the concept of individual liberty, and who's to say that the baby doesn't have natural rights and individual liberty the same as the mother?

Well if that's the case, who should die if the mother needs to get a abortion to save her life? Should the mother sacrifice her child or should the mother sacrifice her life for the child?

I think that decision should fall to the mother and her doctor.

 

[xotoxi]

I've been in the room when libertarians hash this one out...

The libertarians actually have "a room"? Like a specific room?

Is it sort of like a Masonic Lodge?

 

[Modbert]

I think that decision should fall to the mother and her doctor.

Except where's the baby's say? The doctor's job is to do whatever the mother wants.