A Liberal is a Libertarian addled with guilt and self loathing

[manifold]

So says a friend of mine.


What say you?

 

[manifold]

I've also heard it said that contemporary liberals are like liberatarians (or classical liberals) with a messiah complex.

Based on the views of many contemporary liberals that post here, I'd say it's a combination of guilt and a messiah complex.

 

[kyzr]

As a traditional conservative, I don't know much about either. As far as I know liberals always "want something for nothing" and always have some class of people as "more equal than others".

Libertarians (Ron Paul?) are your basic class of bullshitter, like Obama, who talks a much better game than he actually has.
Ever hear of Stassen? Harold Stassen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (perpetual non-candidate)
How about Nader? another non-candidate candidate
How about Ross Perot? He came the closest to a real 3rd party, would have done better with a real VP.

Libertarians are like Greens, Druids, Consumers, and other non-entities...until proven otherwise. I think Tea-Baggers have a better shot.

 

[The Rabbi]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

 

[Modbert]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

 

[The Rabbi]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

Not really.
Liberals generally want to restrict gun rights. Libertarians generally want to expand them.
Liberals want to control business practices, libertarians generally want to eliminate control.


But other than being totally wrong your post was spot on.

 

[Oddball]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

Yeah, right.

Name the so-called "liberal" who is openly for ending the idiotic "war" on (some) drugs and/or outright abolition of civil liberty crushing agencies like the BATF...And what of the "civil liberty" of keeping 100% of my productive earnings, to spend, save or give away as I see fit?

Likewise, the LP position on abortion is that it's a state issue, not the any-old-abortion-on-demand position of the DNC.

Fabian socialist "liberals" are as big of vapid poseurs on those issues, as are the alleged "conservatives" are on profligate spending on the socialistic welfare state.

Nope....Not a dadgummed dime's worth of difference.

 

[Oddball]

A Liberal is a Libertarian addled with guilt and self loathing

I'll toss in historical ignorance, arrogance, self-righteousness, and the PANGie (People Are No Good) snob attitude that nobody (outside of themselves, of course) is as smart, compassionate, restrained, fair and just as are they.

Other than that, they're pretty much the same.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Libertarians are the rotisserie league of politics. They pretend to have a political party, they pretend to have candidates, they pretend they're competing in elections.

 

[Paulie]

So says a friend of mine.


What say you?

Mani a libertarian's aim is to repeal many laws and regulations already on the books, while most liberals' aim is to continue ADDING them.

Today's liberal is nothing even close to a libertarian except perhaps that they see eye to eye on certain types of social issues.

But even THERE, there's a difference in how to go about handling them.

Libertarians would typically prefer to leave social and moral issues to the states to decide, while liberals seem to want the federal government to legislate it.

If you're referring to a classical liberal, then you pretty close to correct. Classical liberals are libertarians by virtue of philosophical and ideological positions. But then, today's liberal is nothing even CLOSE to a classical liberal, now is he/she?

 

[Paulie]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

Dog we had this discussion via PM a while ago, or rather I did, you never responded back to me. I told you what mine, and many other libertarians' positions were and I didn't hear back from you.

Either you agree with those positions or not. If not, you're probably just a regular modern day liberal.

 

[Luissa]

So says a friend of mine.


What say you?

Mani a libertarian's aim is to repeal many laws and regulations already on the books, while most liberals' aim is to continue ADDING them.

Today's liberal is nothing even close to a libertarian except perhaps that they see eye to eye on certain types of social issues.

But even THERE, there's a difference in how to go about handling them.

Libertarians would typically prefer to leave social and moral issues to the states to decide, while liberals seem to want the federal government to legislate it.

If you're referring to a classical liberal, then you pretty close to correct. Classical liberals are libertarians by virtue of philosophical and ideological positions. But then, today's liberal is nothing even CLOSE to a classical liberal, now is he/she?

I am liberal and I am for states having the right to decide if they want such things as making certain drugs legal, I am also not against guns, but I do think once the supreme court ruled on abortions it became a federal issue.
The funniest part about the whole thing is, is right wingers talk about how they want the government out of their lives. Of course that only means their lives, they sure as hell want to be involved in other people's lives when it comes to abortions, gay marriage, and drugs.

 

[Luissa]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

Yeah, right.

Name the so-called "liberal" who is openly for ending the idiotic "war" on (some) drugs and/or outright abolition of civil liberty crushing agencies like the BATF...And what of the "civil liberty" of keeping 100% of my productive earnings, to spend, save or give away as I see fit?

Likewise, the LP position on abortion is that it's a state issue, not the any-old-abortion-on-demand position of the DNC.

Fabian socialist "liberals" are as big of vapid poseurs on those issues, as are the alleged "conservatives" are on profligate spending on the socialistic welfare state.

Nope....Not a dadgummed dime's worth of difference.

I am confused here, are you saying there are no liberals that want the war on drugs stopped?

 

[Oddball]

I am confused here, are you saying there are no liberals that want the war on drugs stopped?

Outside of a couple of stray guys like Dennis Kucinich, no.

The vast majority of them are at least for the status quo, if not for expanding the failed policy as a cynical way to show that they can be "tough on crime" too.

 

[Luissa]

Libertarians generally support less government.
Liberals generally never met a social program they didnt like.
I don't see hwo the two are comparable except that both are followed by idiots.

If you take away the support of social programs, Liberals are very close to Libertarians in terms of political beliefs. That's the only major difference between the two that I've seen.

They agree on Abortion, Drugs, Civil Liberties, etc.

Dog we had this discussion via PM a while ago, or rather I did, you never responded back to me. I told you what mine, and many other libertarians' positions were and I didn't hear back from you.

Either you agree with those positions or not. If not, you're probably just a regular modern day liberal.

You know what I have a problem with, is some people thinking that if you are liberal it means you think this way or that way. I know don't like to think so, but most of us have a mind of are own.

 

[Paulie]

So says a friend of mine.


What say you?

Mani a libertarian's aim is to repeal many laws and regulations already on the books, while most liberals' aim is to continue ADDING them.

Today's liberal is nothing even close to a libertarian except perhaps that they see eye to eye on certain types of social issues.

But even THERE, there's a difference in how to go about handling them.

Libertarians would typically prefer to leave social and moral issues to the states to decide, while liberals seem to want the federal government to legislate it.

If you're referring to a classical liberal, then you pretty close to correct. Classical liberals are libertarians by virtue of philosophical and ideological positions. But then, today's liberal is nothing even CLOSE to a classical liberal, now is he/she?

I am liberal and I am for states having the right to decide if they want such things as making certain drugs legal, I am also not against guns, but I do think once the supreme court ruled on abortions it became a federal issue.
The funniest part about the whole thing is, is right wingers talk about how they want the government out of their lives. Of course that only means their lives, they sure as hell want to be involved in other people's lives when it comes to abortions, gay marriage, and drugs.

Well just like there are some issues that liberals and libertarians agree on, there are some that traditional conservatives and libertarians agree on.

Trust me, I distance myself from traditional conservatives when it comes to their hypocrisy on government being out of our lives.

Legislating drug use and marriage actually seems like something I would expect out of today's liberal, considering they're the ones who most want government to run our everyday lives.

There's no set in stone definition for any ideology. Everyone takes a little from everywhere, whether they want to admit it or not.

 

[manifold]

Fuck the party that commandeered and obfuscated the ideology.

To Allign Libertarian ideology with the concept of "states" rights is to betray a fundamental ignorance of the ideology itself. A true Libertarian ideologue is pro-choice. For the same reasons he is pro keeping 100% of his productive earnings, yadda yadda.

Try to at least be consistent with the ideologies you espouse. mmkay?

 

[Oddball]

[
You know what I have a problem with, is some people thinking that if you are liberal it means you think this way or that way. I know don't like to think so, but most of us have a mind of are own.

I've been speaking in terms of the political types and their party man toadies.

 

[Luissa]

I am confused here, are you saying there are no liberals that want the war on drugs stopped?

Outside of a couple of stray guys like Dennis Kucinich, no.

The vast majority of them are at least for the status quo, if not for expanding the failed policy as a cynical way to show that they can be "tough on crime" too.

You have two of the bluest state trying to legalize marijuana right now, which would stop part of the war on drugs. Obama's drug czar who is from Seattle, decriminalized marijuana in Seattle because he thought it was all a waste of money. I will try to find an article on the state house here and liberals sponsoring the two bills right now. There might not be any liberals right now at a national level who are for stopping the war on drugs but there are sure plenty at the state levels.
And PS NIxon started the war on drugs, and Reagan expanded on it.

 

[Paulie]

Fuck the party that commandeered and obfuscated the ideology.

To Allign Libertarian ideology with the concept of "states" rights is to betray a fundamental ignorance of the ideology itself. A true Libertarian ideologue is pro-choice. For the same reasons he is pro keeping 100% of his productive earnings, yadda yadda.

Try to at least be consistent with the ideologies you espouse. mmkay?

Libertarians are not 100% anti-tax, Mani. At least the kind with the small l, anyway. I'm all for the taxation that is authorized in the constitution, I'm simply for lowering spending to a point where most of what is taken TODAY, wouldn't be necessary to take.

That's pretty much in line with a traditional conservative of today.

The states rights issue is something you'll be very hard pressed to try and lump just one ideology into. Not all libertarians are the same. To try and pigeon hole libertarians is no different than trying to pigeon hole liberals or conservatives. It's counter-productive to the discussion to do so.