A Few Facts About The Palestinians

[Viktor]

CHRONICLE OF PALESTINIAN TERRORISM

Google Groups!searchin/soc.culture.jewish/chronicle$2C$20palestinian$20terrorism%7Csort:date/soc.culture.jewish/AibJdNP25Xc/cWg5JC0QcxgJ

Did Israel Evict The Palestinians? Arab sources say NO

Google Groups

Palestinian Rocket Attacks on israel

Lists of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Charter of HAMAS:

Google Groups!searchin/alt.revisionism/hamas$20charter/alt.revisionism/CtZwPiKJIkk/6Nq7noqvWKsJ

Read article 13. They are opposed to any peace treaty with Israel.

HAMAS LIED ABOUT CASUALTIES IN GAZA

Google Groups

FATAH LEADER CALLS FOR ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION

Fatah leader calls for Israel’s destruction - PMW Bulletins

The New Hezbollah Manifesto

http://www.lebanonrenaissance.org/assets/Uploads/15-The-New-Hezbollah-Manifesto-Nov09.pdf

See sections 2 and 3.

Taquiyyah-Holy Deception Ordered by the Koran



Taqiyya, holy deception, Qur’an 5:32

Yasser Arafat already admitted that he was practicing deception when he signed the Oslo Accords.

Jordanian Civil War

1969-70 Palestine Liberation Organization attempts a military takeover of Jordan, blows up 4 civilian airliners and tries to assassinate King Hussein

Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Palestinian Authority Pays Families to Blow Their Children Up in Israel.

Families of suicide bombers given £5m in British aid cash

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[Boston1]

It goes way beyond just those few incidents. But good post. The world needs to be made aware of who the viable peace partner is and who isn't. The revisionist history writers will spin just about anything. But the truth will out. The palestinians are a mob with no leaders able to engage in peace, let alone in security and are rewarded right and left for their terrorist actions.

My personal take is that restrictions should be even harsher than they are now until some significant time has elapsed without ANY terrorist acts by ANY palestinians.

Cheers

 

[MJB12741]

CHRONICLE OF PALESTINIAN TERRORISM

Google Groups!searchin/soc.culture.jewish/chronicle$2C$20palestinian$20terrorism%7Csort:date/soc.culture.jewish/AibJdNP25Xc/cWg5JC0QcxgJ

Did Israel Evict The Palestinians? Arab sources say NO

Google Groups

Palestinian Rocket Attacks on israel

Lists of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Charter of HAMAS:

Google Groups!searchin/alt.revisionism/hamas$20charter/alt.revisionism/CtZwPiKJIkk/6Nq7noqvWKsJ

Read article 13. They are opposed to any peace treaty with Israel.

HAMAS LIED ABOUT CASUALTIES IN GAZA

Google Groups

FATAH LEADER CALLS FOR ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION

Fatah leader calls for Israel’s destruction - PMW Bulletins

The New Hezbollah Manifesto

http://www.lebanonrenaissance.org/assets/Uploads/15-The-New-Hezbollah-Manifesto-Nov09.pdf

See sections 2 and 3.

Taquiyyah-Holy Deception Ordered by the Koran



Taqiyya, holy deception, Qur’an 5:32

Yasser Arafat already admitted that he was practicing deception when he signed the Oslo Accords.

Jordanian Civil War

1969-70 Palestine Liberation Organization attempts a military takeover of Jordan, blows up 4 civilian airliners and tries to assassinate King Hussein

Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Palestinian Authority Pays Families to Blow Their Children Up in Israel.

Families of suicide bombers given £5m in British aid cash

• Stumble It!
  
• •
  
• Tweet This
  
• •
  
• Bookmark on Del

What I don't understand is why the Palestinians & their supporters bitch about Israel who allows them to stay & even provides for some of their needs & yet has ANYONE EVER heard a singke Palestinian or Palestinian supporter complaint against the Arab countries treatment of their Palestinians, especially Jordan's Black Sepptember. It's called Palestinian mentality.

 

[Viktor]

It goes way beyond just those few incidents. But good post. The world needs to be made aware of who the viable peace partner is and who isn't. The revisionist history writers will spin just about anything. But the truth will out. The palestinians are a mob with no leaders able to engage in peace, let alone in security and are rewarded right and left for their terrorist actions.

My personal take is that restrictions should be even harsher than they are now until some significant time has elapsed without ANY terrorist acts by ANY palestinians.

Cheers

Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank in the 1967 war with Egypt and Jordan. They keep them as a buffer
against future Arab attacks, to give the IDF time to prepare defenses. Israel has offered to give the two lands back to Egyprt and Jordan in exchange for peace guarrantees. Egypt and Jordan refused.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Israel has never known peace and never will. It is ground zero for religious zealotry on the planet, and that dooms it.

 

[Kondor3]

The Israelis are doing just fine, and will continue to do well, for centuries to come, as far into the future as we can reasonably foresee.

After the better part of 1900 years, the Jews have come home, and, given with how they've been treated over the centuries - especially the 20th - their Reconquista is doomed to succeed beyond the wildest dreams of the Zionist visionaries of the 19th and 20th.

The support and friendship of a guilt-ridden Europe, and the support and friendship of the People of the United States, have helped to get them off to a great start.

However, it is their own ingenuity, persistence, courage and rediscovered martial skill that won their old ancestral and/or spiritual homeland back for them, and those attributes are what will sustain them as they move into a very bright future indeed.

The moaning and pissing of the Losers of 1948 are already falling upon deaf ears, and the world at large (beyond the domains of Islam, anyway) have grown tired of the whining of those Losers.

 

[montelatici]

Israel has no future, much less a bright future. It's future is that of white-ruled South Africa, hopefully, and Rhodesia, probably.

 

[Hollie]

Israel has no future, much less a bright future. It's future is that of white-ruled South Africa, hopefully, and Rhodesia, probably.

You will find that Israel will continue to prosper. It's a modern, educated society situated in a part of the globe under the oppressive bootheel of retrograde, theocratic totalitarianism.

We're already seeing that parts of the islamist middle east are aligning with modern, educated societies in opposition to retrogression and totalitarianism. It will only continue.

 

[Boston1]

Israel has no future, much less a bright future. It's future is that of white-ruled South Africa, hopefully, and Rhodesia, probably.

The bigotry and hatred will not win out. Israel's economy is stronger now than ever and growing all the time. Its Arab neighbors have quietly aligned themselves with its interests in peaceful relations and more are following every day.

See

Israel's Economy Is Booming – Sorry, Boycotters & John Kerry

What's behind Israel's biggest economic boom? The ...

Explaining Israel's Booming Economy - Newsweek

So regardless of the nay sayers and the haters constantly predicting doom and gloom for hard working Israeli's, the truth of the matter is Israel's economy is a vibrant, diversified and strong one. Not likely to fail anytime soon.

 

[montelatici]

The White-ruled South African economy was also booming, until the sanctions kicked in. Eventually the Israelis will stop getting a pass on their Apartheid policies.

 

[Boston1]

The White-ruled South African economy was also booming, until the sanctions kicked in. Eventually the Israelis will stop getting a pass on their Apartheid policies.

But we all know that the revisionist rhetoric, things like apartheid and stolen palesinian land, are just that, revisionist rhetoric.

The Israeli's are making every effort to find peaceful solutions amid a difficult situation. Constant palestinian acts of violence require that restrictions be placed and remain in place until some reasonable period of peace has past. At which point restrictions can be eased and the palestinians might earn their way back into polite society.

The accusation of apartheid like may of the revisionist claims is demonstrably false. Anyone who studies the issue will quickly see that Israeli Arabs enjoy more rights in Israel than they do in most Arab countries. Woman specially are fully able to participate in lives of equality within the Israeli sphere that they'd never be able to enjoy in much of the Arab world.

Need I really document the numerous rights enjoyed by ALL Israeli Arabs ?

Quote

Jews are the majority within Israel, but the non-Jewish minority (Arab, Christians, Bedouin, Druze, Baha'i and others) enjoy full citizenship with voting rights and representation in the government. Israel’s Declaration of Independence even specifically calls upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to “participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.” The Arab minority comprises 20% of Israel's population.

It is illegal for employers to discriminate on the basis of race and Arab citizens of Israel are represented in all walks of Israeli life. Arabs have served in senior diplomatic and government positions and an Arab - Salim Joubran - currently serves as a justice on the Supreme Court.

Israeli Arabs have their own political parties and representation in the Knesset; Arabs are also members of the major Israeli political parties.

In apartheid South Africa, laws dictated where Non-whites could live, work and travel and the government imprisoned, and sometimes killed, those who protested against these policies. By contrast, Israel allows freedom of movement, assembly and speech and some of the government’s harshest critics are Arab Knesset members.

Arab students and professors study, research and teach freely at Israeli universities. At Haifa University, for example, approximately 20 percent of the students are Arabs.

Israeli society is not perfect - discrimination and unfairness exist there as it does in every other country. These differences, however, are nothing like the horrors of the apartheid system. Moreover, when inequalities are identified, minorities in Israel have the right to seek redress through the government and the courts, and progress toward equality has been made over the years.

The situation of Palestinians in the territories is different. Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip openly refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist; by contrast, non-whites never sought the destruction of South Africa, only of the apartheid regime.

Unlike South Africa, where restrictions were totally racially motivated, Israel's restrictions in the territories - such as checkpoints and the security fence - was forced by incessant Palestinian terrorism. Israel has consistently demonstrated a willingness, however, to ease restrictions when violence subsides.

Meanwhile, Palestinians from the territories are allowed to work in Israel and receive similar pay and benefits to their Jewish counterparts. They are allowed to attend schools and universities. Palestinians have been given opportunities to run many of their own affairs. None of this was true for South African blacks.

Even such, 98% of the Palestinians in the territories are governed by the rules of the Palestinian Authority, which amazingly do not permit their own resident with freedoms of speech, religion, assembly or other rights taken for granted by Westerners and guaranteed in Israel.

The clearest refutation of the calumny against Israel comes from the Palestinians themselves - when asked what governments they admire most, more than 80 percent of Palestinians consistently choose Israel because they can see up close the thriving democracy in Israel, and the rights the Arab citizens enjoy there.

End Quote

 

[montelatici]

What is the difference with the citizens of the Bantustans, ruled by the governments of the Bantustans (like the PLO "runs" the WB) , going to work in South Africa? A limited number of non-whites attended white universities in South Africa during Apartheid. Non-whites preferred to work in Apartheid South Africa than in surrounding black-ruled states. What you wrote parallels Apartheid South Africa.

Israel is an Apartheid state like South Africa was except that the white South Africans were not brazen enough to build separation walls.

 

[Hollie]

What is the difference with the citizens of the Bantustans, ruled by the governments of the Bantustans (like the PLO "runs" the WB) , going to work in South Africa? A limited number of non-whites attended white universities in South Africa during Apartheid. Non-whites preferred to work in Apartheid South Africa than in surrounding black-ruled states. What you wrote parallels Apartheid South Africa.

Israel is an Apartheid state like South Africa was except that the white South Africans were not brazen enough to build separation walls.

Your false comparisons re: South Africa, while nothing but pointless spam have been debunked many times before.

 

[Boston1]

I believe cross posting is forbidden on this forum
Please pick a thread to have this conversation and stick to it

 

[montelatici]

I believe cross posting is forbidden on this forum
Please pick a thread to have this conversation and stick to it

You cross posted I followed it up with the same response.

 

[Boston1]

I believe cross posting is forbidden on this forum
Please pick a thread to have this conversation and stick to it

You cross posted I followed it up with the same response.

Yup, after asking you politely to refer to another thread. Give it up, cross posting appears to be specifically forbidden

 

[Boston1]

Lets get back on topic

Quote

Jews are the majority within Israel, but the non-Jewish minority (Arab, Christians, Bedouin, Druze, Baha'i and others) enjoy full citizenship with voting rights and representation in the government. Israel’s Declaration of Independence even specifically calls upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to “participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.” The Arab minority comprises 20% of Israel's population.

It is illegal for employers to discriminate on the basis of race and Arab citizens of Israel are represented in all walks of Israeli life. Arabs have served in senior diplomatic and government positions and an Arab - Salim Joubran - currently serves as a justice on the Supreme Court.

Israeli Arabs have their own political parties and representation in the Knesset; Arabs are also members of the major Israeli political parties.

In apartheid South Africa, laws dictated where Non-whites could live, work and travel and the government imprisoned, and sometimes killed, those who protested against these policies. By contrast, Israel allows freedom of movement, assembly and speech and some of the government’s harshest critics are Arab Knesset members.

Arab students and professors study, research and teach freely at Israeli universities. At Haifa University, for example, approximately 20 percent of the students are Arabs.

Israeli society is not perfect - discrimination and unfairness exist there as it does in every other country. These differences, however, are nothing like the horrors of the apartheid system. Moreover, when inequalities are identified, minorities in Israel have the right to seek redress through the government and the courts, and progress toward equality has been made over the years.

The situation of Palestinians in the territories is different. Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip openly refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist; by contrast, non-whites never sought the destruction of South Africa, only of the apartheid regime.

Unlike South Africa, where restrictions were totally racially motivated, Israel's restrictions in the territories - such as checkpoints and the security fence - was forced by incessant Palestinian terrorism. Israel has consistently demonstrated a willingness, however, to ease restrictions when violence subsides.

Meanwhile, Palestinians from the territories are allowed to work in Israel and receive similar pay and benefits to their Jewish counterparts. They are allowed to attend schools and universities. Palestinians have been given opportunities to run many of their own affairs. None of this was true for South African blacks.

Even such, 98% of the Palestinians in the territories are governed by the rules of the Palestinian Authority, which amazingly do not permit their own resident with freedoms of speech, religion, assembly or other rights taken for granted by Westerners and guaranteed in Israel.

The clearest refutation of the calumny against Israel comes from the Palestinians themselves - when asked what governments they admire most, more than 80 percent of Palestinians consistently choose Israel because they can see up close the thriving democracy in Israel, and the rights the Arab citizens enjoy there.

End Quote.

Its very easy to see the numerous differences between an apartheid state and Israel's having to place restrictions on SOME of the palestinians living within its sphere of influence

 

[Boston1]

It might also helpful to remember that the UN failed to follow its own guidelines by not segregating combatant from non combatant within the palestinian so called refugees.

A failure that persists to this day.

Had the UN lived up to its obligations at any point in this conflict Israel wouldn't have a violent refugee population as violent refugees constitute combatants and a host nation is under no obligation to offer refuge to hostile forces/combatants

Although this issue is sufficiently important that it should probably have its own thread.

 

[Boston1]

if some of those here wish to twist the meaning of apartheid to represent Israel's efforts to quell the UNs violent refugee problem; then I think its also reasonable to mention the Arab nations despicable record towards not only their own people but of anyone ethnically diverse from themselves

 

[montelatici]

Lets get back on topic

Quote

Jews are the majority within Israel, but the non-Jewish minority (Arab, Christians, Bedouin, Druze, Baha'i and others) enjoy full citizenship with voting rights and representation in the government. Israel’s Declaration of Independence even specifically calls upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to “participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.” The Arab minority comprises 20% of Israel's population.

It is illegal for employers to discriminate on the basis of race and Arab citizens of Israel are represented in all walks of Israeli life. Arabs have served in senior diplomatic and government positions and an Arab - Salim Joubran - currently serves as a justice on the Supreme Court.

Israeli Arabs have their own political parties and representation in the Knesset; Arabs are also members of the major Israeli political parties.

In apartheid South Africa, laws dictated where Non-whites could live, work and travel and the government imprisoned, and sometimes killed, those who protested against these policies. By contrast, Israel allows freedom of movement, assembly and speech and some of the government’s harshest critics are Arab Knesset members.

Arab students and professors study, research and teach freely at Israeli universities. At Haifa University, for example, approximately 20 percent of the students are Arabs.

Israeli society is not perfect - discrimination and unfairness exist there as it does in every other country. These differences, however, are nothing like the horrors of the apartheid system. Moreover, when inequalities are identified, minorities in Israel have the right to seek redress through the government and the courts, and progress toward equality has been made over the years.

The situation of Palestinians in the territories is different. Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip openly refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist; by contrast, non-whites never sought the destruction of South Africa, only of the apartheid regime.

Unlike South Africa, where restrictions were totally racially motivated, Israel's restrictions in the territories - such as checkpoints and the security fence - was forced by incessant Palestinian terrorism. Israel has consistently demonstrated a willingness, however, to ease restrictions when violence subsides.

Meanwhile, Palestinians from the territories are allowed to work in Israel and receive similar pay and benefits to their Jewish counterparts. They are allowed to attend schools and universities. Palestinians have been given opportunities to run many of their own affairs. None of this was true for South African blacks.

Even such, 98% of the Palestinians in the territories are governed by the rules of the Palestinian Authority, which amazingly do not permit their own resident with freedoms of speech, religion, assembly or other rights taken for granted by Westerners and guaranteed in Israel.

The clearest refutation of the calumny against Israel comes from the Palestinians themselves - when asked what governments they admire most, more than 80 percent of Palestinians consistently choose Israel because they can see up close the thriving democracy in Israel, and the rights the Arab citizens enjoy there.

End Quote.

Its very easy to see the numerous differences between an apartheid state and Israel's having to place restrictions on SOME of the palestinians living within its sphere of influence

Reposting Hasbara propaganda does not change the fact that Israel is an Apartheid state. Now the facts:

"Apartheid" isn't just a term of insult; it's a word with a very specific legal meaning, as defined by the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid, adopted by the U.N. General Assembly in 1973 and ratified by most United Nations member states (Israel and the United States are exceptions, to their shame).

According to Article II of that convention, the term applies to acts "committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." Denying those others the right to life and liberty, subjecting them to arbitrary arrest, expropriating their property, depriving them of the right to leave and return to their country or the right to freedom of movement and of residence, creating separate reserves and ghettos for the members of different racial groups, preventing mixed marriages — these are all examples of the crime of apartheid specifically mentioned in the convention.


Seeing the reference to racial groups here, some people might think of race in a putatively biological sense or as a matter of skin color. That is a rather simplistic (and dated) way of thinking about racial identity. More to the point, however, the operative definition of "racial identity" is provided in the 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (to which Israel is a signatory), on which the apartheid convention explicitly draws
There, the term "racial discrimination" is defined as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

A few basic facts are now in order.

The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund

Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on.

Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel."



The educational systems for the two populations in Israel (not to mention the occupied territories) are kept largely separate and unequal. While overcrowded Palestinian schools in Israel crumble, Jewish students are given access to more resources and curricular options.

It is not legally possible in Israel for a Jewish citizen to marry a non-Jewish citizen. And a web of laws, regulations and military orders governing what kind of people can live in which particular spaces makes mixed marriages within the occupied territories, or across the pre-1967 border between Israel and the occupied territories, all but impossible.

And so it goes in all domains of life, from birth to death: a systematic, vigilantly policed separation of the two populations and utter contempt for the principle of equality. One group — stripped of property and rights, expelled, humiliated, punished, demolished, imprisoned and at times driven to the edge of starvation (down to the meticulously calculated last calorie) — has withered. The other group — its freedom of movement and of development not merely unrestricted but actively encouraged — has flourished, and its religious and cultural symbols adorn the regalia of the state and are emblazoned on the state flag.

The question is not whether the term "apartheid" applies here. It is why it should cause such an outcry when it is used.

Does the term 'apartheid' fit Israel? Of course it does.