A fair and just GOD. He was certainly not an American

[Psychoblues]

Given our history of war, international meddling, disease and refusals to address suffering amongst ourselves much less throughout the world I think I can safely say that God is not an American. Further, I think that asking God to bless our policies/our nation/our very human interference is a sacrilege and hypocrisy that we as supposedly intelligent and enlightened people should strive to correct. But, that's just me thinking out loud.

Psychoblues

 

[5stringJeff]

I think you are correct in saying that God is not an American - nor is he any other nationality. But I think it's perfectly fine to ask God to bless our nation, which I think he would be happy to do as long as we, as a nation, do the things that are pleasing to Him.

 

[musicman]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Given our history of war, international meddling, disease and refusals to address suffering amongst ourselves much less throughout the world I think I can safely say that God is not an American. Further, I think that asking God to bless our policies/our nation/our very human interference is a sacrilege and hypocrisy that we as supposedly intelligent and enlightened people should strive to correct. But, that's just me thinking out loud.

Psychoblues

I hate to disagree with a Ludwig man, but I believe that America is unique in human history, in that our founding fathers based our entire system on sound biblical principles. Their distrust of government showed a clear understanding of the fundamental nature of man (all men shall fall short of the glory). Name one other people, since the beginning of time, whose guiding principles were so deeply rooted in healthy skepticism and abiding respect for the individual. You can't.

And, seriously - can you name any nation - in all of history - that can even approach what America has done for the good in this world? If you're honest, you can't. I don't even want to think about what this world would be like wihout America in it. No, God is not an American. Americans are just human beings who screw up, like everybody else. But, if we could just stop bathing in the slime of self-abasement for a moment, and stop engaging in the perversely ego-gratifying practice of self-flagellation, we'd see that America is truly a miracle. Slavery was perfectly acceptable for over 6,000 years. Women have been treated worse than livestock for most of recorded history. America wiped all that away in the historical equivalent of the blink of an eye - and she still catches hell for not doing enough.

Thanks to our drive and ingenuity, many plagues and diseases are gone. Hitler is gone. Communism is gone. Evil, disease, and suffering continue in our imperfect world. Let's continue to battle these on all fronts - the way Americans always have. But, damnit, let's not forget to be humble and grateful every once in a while

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I think you are correct in saying that God is not an American - nor is he any other nationality. But I think it's perfectly fine to ask God to bless our nation, which I think he would be happy to do as long as we, as a nation, do the things that are pleasing to Him.

Well put Jeff.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I think you are correct in saying that God is not an American - nor is he any other nationality. But I think it's perfectly fine to ask God to bless our nation, which I think he would be happy to do as long as we, as a nation, do the things that are pleasing to Him.

God didn't create nations. Humans created nations. God may bless the nation but its the peoples actions that please him, not the nations.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
God didn't create nations. Humans created nations. God may bless the nation but its the peoples actions that please him, not the nations.

Like many other verses, :

Numbers 14:11 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?
12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Like many other verses, :

Numbers 14:11 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?
12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

by misinterpreting this, you are saying that people no longer have the free will to please god by his doing his will. You're saying that god creates nations, populates them with his people, and directs them without letting them choose of their own free will.

Again, like I said above, God didn't create nations, people did. People created nations by using their free will to please god.

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I think you are correct in saying that God is not an American - nor is he any other nationality. But I think it's perfectly fine to ask God to bless our nation, which I think he would be happy to do as long as we, as a nation, do the things that are pleasing to Him.

Sometimes God 'blesses' people who aren't doing things pleasing to Him.


Arguing whether it's 'the people' God is blessing or 'the nation' is pointless. Praying for our Nation = Praying for the people of our Nation, as our nation exists only as citizens...not as states or objects or boundaries. It's comprised of hundreds of millions of 'people'.

God Bless the (people of the) USA, is the implied meaning.

 

[dmp]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
by misinterpreting this, you are saying that people no longer have the free will to please god by his doing his will. You're saying that god creates nations, populates them with his people, and directs them without letting them choose of their own free will.

It's entirely possible for People to CHOOSE to allow God to direct their actions - in fact, that's what Christianity is all about

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
People created nations by using their free will to please god.

wha?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
by misinterpreting this, you are saying that people no longer have the free will to please god by his doing his will.

Hold it right there.


Since when are YOU the master of pointing out "misinterpretation"?

Why don't YOU point out to me how it is wrong IN CONTEXT and WITH SCRIPTURE.

We just did this with American history and you fell on your face.

Round 2?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by -=d=-
It's entirely possible for People to CHOOSE to allow God to direct their actions - in fact, that's what Christianity is all about

people that choose to allow god to direct them wander around aimlessly until choosing to DO things to please god. Otherwise a person would just be an automoton.

 

[HGROKIT]

arguing scripture on semantics is pointless. Throughout the OT, nation and its people are used interchangably. I cannot believe this argument or debate if you will to be getting so hung up in minutia such as this; especially with the people involved - I have witnessed more cogent posts from all of you.

The Jews that were led out of Egypt were done so in grace and as a "nation". During their "Exodus", a majority of them committed acts which were NOT pleasing to God. There fore, a majority of the people wer not punished, but the "NATION" was punished by God's command that they shall wander the desert so as the current generation will not see the promised land.

So...people/nation....nation/people...geez!

We were given "free-will" because He wnated people to worship and believe in him of their "own will" - a choice if you will over right and wrong.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Hold it right there.


Since when are YOU the master of pointing out "misinterpretation"?

Why don't YOU point out to me how it is wrong IN CONTEXT and WITH SCRIPTURE.

We just did this with American history and you fell on your face.

Round 2?

no disrespect intended newguy, but if you are interpreting that verse to mean that god told moses that he, meaning god, will build a nation then god's divine choice of people having free will means nothing. God wants us to do things to please him, but only when its our choice to do so.

I fell on nothing.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
arguing scripture on semantics is pointless. Throughout the OT, nation and its people are used interchangably. I cannot believe this argument or debate if you will to be getting so hung up in minutia such as this; especially with the people involved - I have witnessed more cogent posts from all of you.

The Jews that were led out of Egypt were done so in grace and as a "nation". During their "Exodus", a majority of them committed acts which were NOT pleasing to God. There fore, a majority of the people wer not punished, but the "NATION" was punished by God's command that they shall wander the desert so as the current generation will not see the promised land.

So...people/nation....nation/people...geez!

We were given "free-will" because He wnated people to worship and believe in him of their "own will" - a choice if you will over right and wrong.

I stand corrected.

My apologies to all.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by musicman
I hate to disagree with a Ludwig man, but I believe that America is unique in human history, in that our founding fathers based our entire system on sound biblical principles. Their distrust of government showed a clear understanding of the fundamental nature of man (all men shall fall short of the glory). Name one other people, since the beginning of time, whose guiding principles were so deeply rooted in healthy skepticism and abiding respect for the individual. You can't.

And, seriously - can you name any nation - in all of history - that can even approach what America has done for the good in this world? If you're honest, you can't. I don't even want to think about what this world would be like wihout America in it. No, God is not an American. Americans are just human beings who screw up, like everybody else. But, if we could just stop bathing in the slime of self-abasement for a moment, and stop engaging in the perversely ego-gratifying practice of self-flagellation, we'd see that America is truly a miracle. Slavery was perfectly acceptable for over 6,000 years. Women have been treated worse than livestock for most of recorded history. America wiped all that away in the historical equivalent of the blink of an eye - and she still catches hell for not doing enough.

Thanks to our drive and ingenuity, many plagues and diseases are gone. Hitler is gone. Communism is gone. Evil, disease, and suffering continue in our imperfect world. Let's continue to battle these on all fronts - the way Americans always have. But, damnit, let's not forget to be humble and grateful every once in a while

and to give thanks and credit where thanks and credit are due!

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
God didn't create nations. Humans created nations. God may bless the nation but its the peoples actions that please him, not the nations.

Well, hgrokit brought up the point I was going to bring up. Rock on!!!

 

[KLSuddeth]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I think you are correct in saying that God is not an American - nor is he any other nationality. But I think it's perfectly fine to ask God to bless our nation, which I think he would be happy to do as long as we, as a nation, do the things that are pleasing to Him.

My personal opinion is that God would be happy as long as we as individuals do the correct things - the things that honor God and humanity as a whole.

Just my opinion...

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
My personal opinion is that God would be happy as long as we as individuals do the correct things - the things that honor God and humanity as a whole.

Just my opinion...

I agree and therein is the answer!

If we as individuals are doing what is asked of us from God, through the teachings of Christ, then He will be honored and humanity will benefit.

It really is very simple - why the heck you think it comes so easy to me? :

 

[KLSuddeth]

It really is very simple - why the heck you think it comes so easy to me?

I have a pretty good idea lol

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Given our history of war, international meddling, disease and refusals to address suffering amongst ourselves much less throughout the world I think I can safely say that God is not an American. Further, I think that asking God to bless our policies/our nation/our very human interference is a sacrilege and hypocrisy that we as supposedly intelligent and enlightened people should strive to correct. But, that's just me thinking out loud.

Psychoblues

Did anyone claim God was American? Last i checked He was a Jew.