A Day Which Will Live in Infamy Dec 7, 1941

[KarlMarx]

Pearl Harbor Day....

Frankly, I'm afraid many have forgotten the lessons of that horrible day and of that other awful day, 09/11/01

Jay Dyson, over at "Sacred Cow Burgers" sums it up well...

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/fresh/showpics.cgi?if_it_happened_today

 

[insein]

unfortunately, there are too many people that believe in conspiracies over the existence of evil or that the evil is the US government deceiving the people into unjust wars (remember to a lib, all war is unjust).

/salute those that gave their lives serving at pearl Harbor that fateful morning.

 

[Mr. P]

Just a word for you parents of public school children. Be sure you teach them this type of history because, believe me, you can’t count on it being mentioned in school today.

Ask when they get home today. It would be interesting to hear.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

The real tragedy is how those guys didn't have to die, since we had [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743201299/qid=1134004705/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2957366-1159252?s=books&v=glance&n=283155]broken the Jap radio code months before[/ame]. FDR was warned about an impending attack, since we had cut off gasoline supplies to Japan, but the Navy guy who brought it up was quietly sacked. There's also Operation Rainbow Five (no, not Rainbow Six the video game), a plan to manuver Japan or Germany into firing the first shot, which also came to light days before Pearl Harbor. The right wing was infuriated at FDR over this, but Pearl Harbor essentially let him off the hook.

For at least a year before the attack, FDR pursued a policy of goading the Japanese to do it. He saw no other way to overwhelm American isolationist sentiment and get the country to enter the war against the Axis powers.

For key command posts, he carefully picked and placed naval officers who would not obstruct his provocation plans. Vice-Admiral James O. Richardson, commander-in-chief of the United States Fleet, strenuously objected to White House orders to bottle up the main elements of our Pacific navy in one place, Pearl Harbor. He was sacked. To fill Richardson’s place, FDR vaulted Admiral Husband Kimmel over 32 others. Kimmel was a decent man and no stooge, but the White House systematically denied him information that the Japanese were targeting Hawaii.

Indeed, on his own initiative in late November 1941, Kimmel dispatched a portion of the fleet to the sea north of Hawaii where he suspected a gathering of Japanese carriers. It turned out to be the staging area of the ultimate assault on Pearl Harbor, but Kimmel was stopped short of confirming that by strange orders from the White House to get his ships back to Oahu.

No less than seven Japanese naval broadcasts intercepted between November 28 and December 6 confirmed that Japan was planning to wipe out the bulk of America’s Pacific fleet ensconced at Pearl Harbor, but Kimmel was kept completely and deliberately in the dark. He was later the designated fall guy for the whole debacle, when the treacherous FDR relieved him of his command and demoted him unceremoniously to rear admiral.

 

[Mr. P]

The real tragedy is how those guys didn't have to die, since we had broken the Jap radio code months before. FDR was warned about an impending attack, since we had cut off gasoline supplies to Japan, but the Navy guy who brought it up was quietly sacked. There's also Operation Rainbow Five (no, not Rainbow Six the video game), a plan to manuver Japan or Germany into firing the first shot, which also came to light days before Pearl Harbor. The right wing was infuriated at FDR over this, but Pearl Harbor essentially let him off the hook.

No doubt you have “credible” links to these claims, right?
Just wondering, but I’d love to see them.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Whoops, forgot the link

http://www.mises.org/story/688

That article doesn't mention Rainbow Five, but I remember it from a book about FDR, I think it was either FDR's Folly or maybe The New Dealers' War. If I can find it I'll try and get my scanner working.

 

[Mr. P]

Whoops, forgot the link

http://www.mises.org/story/688

That article doesn't mention Rainbow Five, but I remember it from a book about FDR, I think it was either FDR's Folly or maybe The New Dealers' War. If I can find it I'll try and get my scanner working.

Thanks, I'll look at it.

 

[Annie]

No doubt you have “credible” links to these claims, right?
Just wondering, but I’d love to see them.

He may have a point:

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

Looks pretty authoratative, but I'm going to see if I can find the book.

 

[Mr. P]

Whoops, forgot the link

http://www.mises.org/story/688

That article doesn't mention Rainbow Five, but I remember it from a book about FDR, I think it was either FDR's Folly or maybe The New Dealers' War. If I can find it I'll try and get my scanner working.

The Ludwig von Mises Institute is the research and educational center of classical liberalism,

Well, I really was looking for a "Credible" link without an agenda.
Got anything like that?

 

[Mr. P]

He may have a point:

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

Looks pretty authoratative, but I'm going to see if I can find the book.

I'll look around, but on your link I saw this...

Part of the November 25 message read: “�the task force, keeping its movements strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal blow�”

That sounds exactly like the movie script..which came out before 02...the site says, "Newly released naval records" dated March 11, 2002.

I'm not sold yet, I will admit shit happens.

Edit: Spelling, I really didn't mean witch.

 

[Annie]

I'll look around, but on your link I saw this...
That sounds exactly like the movie script..witch came out before 02...the site says, "Newly released naval records" dated March 11, 2002.

I'm not sold yet, I will admit shit happens.

Well me neither. In history classes that deal with WWII which of course involved Western Civ, American History, and Far East History, this is probably the most debated. I never bought into the 'conspiracy' but if they are primary sourced materials, through FIA stuff,

 

[Mr. P]

Well me neither. In history classes that deal with WWII which of course involved Western Civ, American History, and Far East History, this is probably the most debated. I never bought into the 'conspiracy' but if they are primary sourced materials, through FIA stuff,

I guess the key word is "if", you know how these 'conspiracy' folks work.

 

[Annie]

I guess the key word is "if", you know how these 'conspiracy' folks work.

Yep, I meant to bold just that.

 

[yiostheoy]

Pearl Harbor Day....

Frankly, I'm afraid many have forgotten the lessons of that horrible day and of that other awful day, 09/11/01

Jay Dyson, over at "Sacred Cow Burgers" sums it up well...

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/fresh/showpics.cgi?if_it_happened_today

This is an 11 year old post which proved to become prophetic 6 years later on Sept 11 2001.

The US had forgotten the lessons of Dec 7 1941 so history then repeated itself on Sept 11 2001.

There are about 100 living survivors of the Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese that day.

These people are in their 90's now.

Today is the 75th anniversary of that day that lives in infamy.

 

[yiostheoy]

The real tragedy is how those guys didn't have to die, since we had [ame=[URL]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743201299/qid=1134004705/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2957366-1159252?s=books&v=glance&n=283155]broken&tag=ff0d01-20[/URL] the Jap radio code months before[/ame]. FDR was warned about an impending attack, since we had cut off gasoline supplies to Japan, but the Navy guy who brought it up was quietly sacked. There's also Operation Rainbow Five (no, not Rainbow Six the video game), a plan to manuver Japan or Germany into firing the first shot, which also came to light days before Pearl Harbor. The right wing was infuriated at FDR over this, but Pearl Harbor essentially let him off the hook.

For at least a year before the attack, FDR pursued a policy of goading the Japanese to do it. He saw no other way to overwhelm American isolationist sentiment and get the country to enter the war against the Axis powers.

For key command posts, he carefully picked and placed naval officers who would not obstruct his provocation plans. Vice-Admiral James O. Richardson, commander-in-chief of the United States Fleet, strenuously objected to White House orders to bottle up the main elements of our Pacific navy in one place, Pearl Harbor. He was sacked. To fill Richardson’s place, FDR vaulted Admiral Husband Kimmel over 32 others. Kimmel was a decent man and no stooge, but the White House systematically denied him information that the Japanese were targeting Hawaii.

Indeed, on his own initiative in late November 1941, Kimmel dispatched a portion of the fleet to the sea north of Hawaii where he suspected a gathering of Japanese carriers. It turned out to be the staging area of the ultimate assault on Pearl Harbor, but Kimmel was stopped short of confirming that by strange orders from the White House to get his ships back to Oahu.

No less than seven Japanese naval broadcasts intercepted between November 28 and December 6 confirmed that Japan was planning to wipe out the bulk of America’s Pacific fleet ensconced at Pearl Harbor, but Kimmel was kept completely and deliberately in the dark. He was later the designated fall guy for the whole debacle, when the treacherous FDR relieved him of his command and demoted him unceremoniously to rear admiral.

Inactivity in high places.

Both Kimmel and Short were busted down in rank and discharged from the Navy and Army in disgrace.

 

[yiostheoy]

Whoops, forgot the link

http://www.mises.org/story/688

That article doesn't mention Rainbow Five, but I remember it from a book about FDR, I think it was either FDR's Folly or maybe The New Dealers' War. If I can find it I'll try and get my scanner working.

It was FDR himself who foolishly ordered the fleet to Hawaii from San Diego.

Then Kimmel and Short were not vigilant enough to be prepared for the attack.

The Japanese on the other hand observed that being at Hawaii the fleet was now within striking distance of the Japanese fleet.

So FDR, Kimmel, and Short were equally at fault for the defeat and the loss of life.

FDR deflected the blame to Kimmel and Short and failed to take responsibility for his own responsibility.