A challenge to libs and a slightly different one to conservatives.

[jillian]

Oh, paaaaaaa-leeez. Hebrew National dogs are simply superior in all respects.

()

Hebrew national is a great dog, but it's the whole Nathan's experience... And the taste is pretty close to HN, could go either way on a taste test if made properly.

Have you been to the one in Coney Island?

No. It's been quite a while since I've been to NYC, too. But, have never been to Coney Island.

Funny, yesterday we were just talking about Nathan's, too. (Fiance's BIL is from NYC.)

Lol... Yeah, they had the big hot dog eating contest yesterday. cool re the BIL.

And if you haven't been to Nathan's in coney island, i understand why you don't think it's comparable to HN.

 

[Truthmatters]

freedom of speach

freedom of religion

the very land its self

The fact that we are a great melting pot

even though we are not perfect we in the end always go the right way in history to retain our march towards more freedom.


people who need "perfect" are people who have to ignore flaws to PRETEND perfect which will in turn KEEP YOU FROM a march towards more perfect.

Remeber the phrase "A more perfect union".


The founders understood what Im saying and that is why they added the word More to that phrase

 

[Artevelde]

AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM!

Them's fightin' words to lotsa libs.

I propose a more modest discussion.

Submitted: America is a great country, not just in terms of wealth or military might, but in all variety of ways. However, to recognize the greatness of America is NOT the same as being compelled to deny that it has some faults and significant room for improvement and growth.

In my experience, libs seem to focus on the negative side of the ledger and are foaming at the mouth angry with conservatives for focusing (unduly, in the opinion of lots of libs) on the positive side of the ledger.

Conservatives DO tend to focus more on the positive side of the ledger, but in my estimation this is not inconsistent with also acknowledging room for growth.


So, to the libs I pose the following question: can you -- without any qualifications -- list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you like, respect and cherish the most?


For you conservatives out there, go ahead and list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you think need to be fixed -- but do so without qualifying your answers. And try to avoid just mouthing anti-liberal rhetoric.

Once we have that addressed, I have an idea for the next step in the conversation.

(I am curious if this can be accomplished without flames?)

I consider myself Conservative (in the old-fashioned sense) and although not a US citizen I'll happily give you 5 things that need to be fixed in my humble opinion:

1. Balance the Federal budget and reduce the national debt.
2. Make less laws and reduce the jungle of Federal regulations, agencies, commissions, departments, etc. to allow for a sharper focus on the essential tasks of the Federal government.
3. Improve educational and behavioral standards at schools.
4. Rationalize the justice system.
5. Get a grip on illegal immigration and secure the border against trafficking in people, drugs, weapons, etc.

 

[Liability]

Several of the Board's liberals have bothered to respond in a thoughtful manner.

There is a kind of a theme with the things about which they seem to have no problem expressing admiration for concerning America.

I have not collated all of their answers yet. (That would prove difficult in the press of unrelated events, today.)

Nonetheless, I think the pattern is pretty obvious.

This is not some veiled snarky criticism or an effort to play "got ya!." I like what I'm reading.

And I plan on relying on these responses to generate the next part of this theory I have started to develop. And yes, the latter DOES include some of the things that self-declared conservatives say they would seek to make America better.

There's a pretty wide gulf between modern American liberalism (as a political theory) and the present day forms of conservatism. But I think I am seeing areas where there can be rational, reasonable and fair accommodations. I see some reason to believe that some bridges can still be built despite how divided we have become.

 

[rightwinger]

list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you think need to be fixed

1. We need to bring back the art of the Compromise. It is not a dirty word and does not mean you lost
2. We need to develop a balanced energy policy. Oil, natural gas, solar, biofuel, clean coal, nuclear and yes....even conservation. Drill baby drill is not the answer to our energy needs
3. We have a wide disparity in wealth in this country. The working class is getting a smaller and smaller piece of the pie. I do not propose taking money from the rich and giving to the poor, but why continue economic policies that enrich one class at the extent of another?
4. Military- We are the worlds superpower. We won. We are bigger than the next ten countries combined. We have more nukes than we will ever need. No country can attack us. Lets reevaluate the mission of our military and go to a sane ,military structure
5. Healthcare- It is out of control and getting worse. Obamacare is not a fix. Ignoring it does not help either. We need to increase competition in healthcare. Advertise prices and rate providers. Open up competition for drugs. Insurance alone is not the answer....we need to attack prices

 

[Liability]

list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you think need to be fixed

1. We need to bring back the art of the Compromise. It is not a dirty word and does not mean you lost
2. We need to develop a balanced energy policy. Oil, natural gas, solar, biofuel, clean coal, nuclear and yes....even conservation. Drill baby drill is not the answer to our energy needs
3. We have a wide disparity in wealth in this country. The working class is getting a smaller and smaller piece of the pie. I do not propose taking money from the rich and giving to the poor, but why continue economic policies that enrich one class at the extent of another?
4. Military- We are the worlds superpower. We won. We are bigger than the next ten countries combined. We have more nukes than we will ever need. No country can attack us. Lets reevaluate the mission of our military and go to a sane ,military structure
5. Healthcare- It is out of control and getting worse. Obamacare is not a fix. Ignoring it does not help either. We need to increase competition in healthcare. Advertise prices and rate providers. Open up competition for drugs. Insurance alone is not the answer....we need to attack prices

You already answered AS the lib you are.

Despite your misleading username, you can't be both a lib and a conservative.

 

[Ravi]

Your OP implies that libs don't really care that much about America.

A fail from the start.....

 

[Liability]

Your OP implies that libs don't really care that much about America.

A fail from the start.....

My OP implied no such thing.

You read in to it based on your preconceived notions. Well, that and the fact that you aren't too bright.

You are a fail from the start

and all the way through -- to the end of time.

 

[Ravi]

Paraphrasing your questions:

Libs: prove you like something about America.
Cons: what would you like to see be fixed in America.

 

[Liability]

Paraphrasing your questions:

Libs: prove you like something about America.
Cons: what would you like to see be fixed in America.

YOUR trite "para-lying" is not worthy of the time it took you to strain your pinhead for the effort.

My OP wasn't particularly complicated, even for a mushroom like you.

You are just a boring hack troll.

As always.

 

[BDBoop]

I appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread but lez be honest, it ain't gonna work out.

Gotta try.

1. The melting pot, that we are a nation made of many nations.
2. Representation in our government
3. That law is upheld and we are, for the most part, safe
4. Freedom, in pretty much too many ways to count
5. The Federal and State parks (that some land is held untouched and natural)

 

[daws101]

1. no papers or electronic id needed to travel in the US
2. no theocracy
3. orbs
4. freedom of expression.
5. 450 music stations on fios!

 

[Liability]

Given what we see of the things libs admire about the United States of America and what we see of the things which conservatives believe need to be fixed, what say you all?

Is there not some common ground that can be worked on?

Am I wrong in seeing bridges that actually CAN be built?

Maybe not enough to completely close the huge political gulf between the two sides, but enough to permit SOME areas of agreement between the two sides that can START the process of making us work together again in a way that doesn't necessarily give either side a "win" but which can stop the bleeding?

I am NOT talking Pollyana bullshit, either.

I'm talking about a genuine area of consensus. Worthwhile things.

I see LOTS of potential. But I also sense it will not even BEGIN to happen as long as each side looks at the other side as being kind of "the enemy."

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

In my experience, libs seem to focus on the negative side of the ledger and are foaming at the mouth angry with conservatives for focusing (unduly, in the opinion of lots of libs) on the positive side of the ledger.

You’ve obviously had a very limited and inaccurate experience, and one suspects you’re not alone among conservatives in that regard.

You and other rightists incorrectly infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’ To acknowledge this Nation’s problems and work to find solutions to those problems is actually the highest form of patriotism and pride, as someone who turns a blind eye to a given problem does our Nation a great disservice.

No one may compel any American to ‘prove’ his patriotism or love of country.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1. The right to burn flags.
2. The right to make fun of Christians
3. The right to point out the stupidity of the right
4. Abortions!
5. Freedom from religion.

Three of those were the same thing, and one doesn't exist.

 

[Liability]

In my experience, libs seem to focus on the negative side of the ledger and are foaming at the mouth angry with conservatives for focusing (unduly, in the opinion of lots of libs) on the positive side of the ledger.

You’ve obviously had a very limited and inaccurate experience, and one suspects you’re not alone among conservatives in that regard.

You and other rightists incorrectly infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’ To acknowledge this Nation’s problems and work to find solutions to those problems is actually the highest form of patriotism and pride, as someone who turns a blind eye to a given problem does our Nation a great disservice.

No one may compel any American to ‘prove’ his patriotism or love of country.

infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’

False.

My read on liberals is based on a significant amount of interaction with them and my inference is NOT what you attempt to recast it as.

Conservatives, too, work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces. There's nothing negative about it.

YOUR counter-argument is founded on your mistaken notions of conservatism.

What I WAS addressing was the tendency of liberals to couch their arguments in way that makes them come across (often) as disliking who and what we are.

There is nothing wrong with criticism. There is nothing wrong with attempting to improve us from whatever position we are presently in.

But there is something pretty damn ineffective in couching your clamor for change in a way that seems to be grounded on a dislike of who and what we are.

The problem is not with my perception, Adam_Clayton. The problem is with yours and the perception of all those like you. Until you recognize that problem, you will do nothing to attend to it. And as long as you don't remedy the way you address the problems, you will be forever bound by the reaction you have earned.

You limit yourselves.

 

[rightwinger]

In my experience, libs seem to focus on the negative side of the ledger and are foaming at the mouth angry with conservatives for focusing (unduly, in the opinion of lots of libs) on the positive side of the ledger.

You’ve obviously had a very limited and inaccurate experience, and one suspects you’re not alone among conservatives in that regard.

You and other rightists incorrectly infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’ To acknowledge this Nation’s problems and work to find solutions to those problems is actually the highest form of patriotism and pride, as someone who turns a blind eye to a given problem does our Nation a great disservice.

No one may compel any American to ‘prove’ his patriotism or love of country.

infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’

False.

My read on liberals is based on a significant amount of interaction with them and my inference is NOT what you attempt to recast it as.

Conservatives, too, work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces. There's nothing negative about it.

YOUR counter-argument is founded on your mistaken notions of conservatism.

What I WAS addressing was the tendency of liberals to couch their arguments in way that makes them come across (often) as disliking who and what we are.

There is nothing wrong with criticism. There is nothing wrong with attempting to improve us from whatever position we are presently in.

But there is something pretty damn ineffective in couching your clamor for change in a way that seems to be grounded on a dislike of who and what we are.

The problem is not with my perception, Adam_Clayton. The problem is with yours and the perception of all those like you. Until you recognize that problem, you will do nothing to attend to it. And as long as you don't remedy the way you address the problems, you will be forever bound by the reaction you have earned.

You limit yourselves.

Conservatives speak against the country as much as Liberals do.....only the issues change

 

[BDBoop]

Given what we see of the things libs admire about the United States of America and what we see of the things which conservatives believe need to be fixed, what say you all?

Is there not some common ground that can be worked on?

Am I wrong in seeing bridges that actually CAN be built?

Maybe not enough to completely close the huge political gulf between the two sides, but enough to permit SOME areas of agreement between the two sides that can START the process of making us work together again in a way that doesn't necessarily give either side a "win" but which can stop the bleeding?

I am NOT talking Pollyana bullshit, either.

I'm talking about a genuine area of consensus. Worthwhile things.

I see LOTS of potential. But I also sense it will not even BEGIN to happen as long as each side looks at the other side as being kind of "the enemy."

It's hard to make that happen, while tiptoeing through a landmine.

 

[Liability]

You’ve obviously had a very limited and inaccurate experience, and one suspects you’re not alone among conservatives in that regard.

You and other rightists incorrectly infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’ To acknowledge this Nation’s problems and work to find solutions to those problems is actually the highest form of patriotism and pride, as someone who turns a blind eye to a given problem does our Nation a great disservice.

No one may compel any American to ‘prove’ his patriotism or love of country.

infer that because liberals work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces that they’re somehow being ‘negative’ or ‘unpatriotic.’

False.

My read on liberals is based on a significant amount of interaction with them and my inference is NOT what you attempt to recast it as.

Conservatives, too, work to address the many difficult issues this nation faces. There's nothing negative about it.

YOUR counter-argument is founded on your mistaken notions of conservatism.

What I WAS addressing was the tendency of liberals to couch their arguments in way that makes them come across (often) as disliking who and what we are.

There is nothing wrong with criticism. There is nothing wrong with attempting to improve us from whatever position we are presently in.

But there is something pretty damn ineffective in couching your clamor for change in a way that seems to be grounded on a dislike of who and what we are.

The problem is not with my perception, Adam_Clayton. The problem is with yours and the perception of all those like you. Until you recognize that problem, you will do nothing to attend to it. And as long as you don't remedy the way you address the problems, you will be forever bound by the reaction you have earned.

You limit yourselves.

Conservatives speak against the country as much as Liberals do.....only the issues change

False.

Conservatives speak out against the policies which liberalism has crafted. We criticize the direction the country has taken. That's not the same as criticism of the country.

 

[Si modo]

list the top FIVE things about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA you like, respect and cherish the most?

1. No country has ever had as much power as the US and used it less
2. The US has not used war to expand our territory or force ideology
3. The culture of the US is the most dominant in the world. We have done it through media and example rather than force
4. The US culture is the most open in the world. It is constantly evolving and has been open to all ethnicities, religions and races
5. The US has contributed more to technological advances in the world than any other nation.

I just think this is an awesome post.