A 29-year-old Afghan national Identified As Shooter of National Guard Members in Washington, D.C.

[Seymour Flops]

You consider it cowardly they told to truth? That says a whole lot more about you than me.

It is cowardly for them or you to pretend that their video was anything besides another attempt to "GET TRUMP," this time by turning our servicemembers against him. They believed that they took no risk by making it, but they knew, and you know, that it will be very risky for any servicemembers who follow that advice, given how rarely the "it was an illegal order" ever works in a court-martial.

You are a coward for pretending that it was just some random PSA, because they sponteniously decided that the troops need a reminder of the case law dealing with unlawful orders in case the training that every single one of them gets has been forgotten. You want me to withdraw the cowardice accusation? Admit now that the purpose of the video was a political attack on Trlump, and not some attempt to educated the troops.

If they had had any courage at all, they could have said, "Do not follow unlawful orders. An order to deploy to, or to patrol the streets of, an American city would be unlawful, and we will stand behind you if you disobey it, regardless of the political costs to ourselves. We will pay for your legal defense. We will NOT pretend that the order you disobeyed was not the kind of order we were talking about.

I would still disagree, and it would still be sedition. But I could not fairly call them (and you) cowards as I can now.

 

[JoeB131]

Post #521.......

Nobody cares, guy.

The allies were out the door faster than we were.

Trump is the guy who sold the Afghan government down the river at Doha... and you know what, I don't really have a problem with that. 20 years of corruption and incompetence, and they folded like a cheap suit once the money spigot got turned off.

What I have a problem with is Trump blaming Biden for a situation he created.

 

[JoeB131]

It is cowardly for them or you to pretend that their video was anything besides another attempt to "GET TRUMP," this time by turning our servicemembers against him. They believed that they took no risk by making it, but they knew, and you know, that it will be very risky for any servicemembers who follow that advice, given how rarely the "it was an illegal order" ever works in a court-martial.

You are a coward for pretending that it was just some random PSA, because they sponteniously decided that the troops need a reminder of the case law dealing with unlawful orders in case the training that every single one of them gets has been forgotten. You want me to withdraw the cowardice accusation? Admit now that the purpose of the video was a political attack on Trlump, and not some attempt to educated the troops.

I think you are confused.

The thing is, before Trump, it was unnecessary to say these things. When our soldiers did illegal things in Afghanistan and Iraq, they were held to account. (At least up until Trump started issuing pardons to war criminals and bringing them on stage with him.) Say what you want about Bush and Cheney, when Abu Ghraib happened, the people involved went to prison, and the people who should have been supervising them saw their careers ended.

The very fact that Trump is using the military for civilian law enforcement should be concerning to everyone. That's not their job, they aren't trained for it.

If they had had any courage at all, they could have said, "Do not follow unlawful orders. An order to deploy to, or to patrol the streets of, an American city would be unlawful, and we will stand behind you if you disobey it, regardless of the political costs to ourselves. We will pay for your legal defense. We will NOT pretend that the order you disobeyed was not the kind of order we were talking about.

I would still disagree, and it would still be sedition. But I could not fairly call them (and you) cowards as I can now.

I guess the problem here is that while it is illegal to send the National Guard out to pick up trash, they aren't in any immediate danger of killing people. But a reminder that firing on civilians is an illegal order, um, yeah, we should remind service members such orders are illegal.

 

[Delldude]

What I have a problem with is Trump blaming Biden for a situation he created.

I see it a wee bit more complicated than that. I don't think Biden or Trump really had anything to with the ' problem'. I'm sure in the final days of Biden's failed tenure, the people who were actually in charge probably made a full court press in getting as many into asylum status before the new administration came on scene as they knew He would be more selective in passing out 'get out of Afghanistan free cards'. I'm sure they overloaded the system....they're followers of the 'Cloward-Piven Strategy', so it's a no brainier. Seeing as he was supposedly granted asylum in April, that would support a backlog in processing from December, by the same career people that were carried over in the transition and also the same people supporting the original intent, plus it's early in Trumps tenure and at that moment I'm sure His focus wasn't on this.
So if we need to blame anybody, I'd say both Biden and Trump are at fault, then on the other hand, it's a fox guarding the hen house issue at the same time.

JoeB131

The very fact that Trump is using the military for civilian law enforcement should be concerning to everyone. That's not their job, they aren't trained for it.

That's not true, they aren't being used for that, that would violate Posse Comitadus.

They are trained in civilian disturbances

Posse Comitatus Act: This federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) generally bars federal military personnel from direct participation in civilian law enforcement functions such as arrests, searches, seizures, and operating checkpoints. The National Guard is only subject to this Act when federalized (Title 10 status).

• Permitted Activities: National Guard members can provide support functions that do not involve direct law enforcement, such as providing a visible presence as a crime deterrent, logistical support, intelligence gathering, surveillance, or operating equipment. They may be armed for self-defense.
• 
  
• Limitations on Authority: When assisting law enforcement, National Guard members typically do not have the authority to conduct arrests, searches, or direct law enforcement actions unless they are granted "peace officer" status under specific state laws or are temporarily detaining someone to prevent imminent harm until civilian authorities arrive.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I think you are confused.

The thing is, before Trump, it was unnecessary to say these things.

Why is it necessary to say those things about Trump in particular?

What illegal orders has he given, and why did the congressfolk not cite them, so that they do not appear to just be partisan hacks trying to goad servicemembers into disobeying orders and hoping they will somehow be ruled illegal?

 

[Delldude]

We can all agree that in the aftermath of this horrific incident we need less Freedom and more Surveillance

We can end civil unrest once Palantir becomes fully operational and tied into a robust weaponized drone strike force

Right?

See where this is headed?

Already there.

 

[JoeB131]

I see it a wee bit more complicated than that. I don't think Biden or Trump really had anything to with the ' problem'. I'm sure in the final days of Biden's failed tenure, the people who were actually in charge probably made a full court press in getting as many into asylum status before the new administration came on scene as they knew He would be more selective in passing out 'get out of Afghanistan free cards'. I'm sure they overloaded the system....they're followers of the 'Cloward-Piven Strategy', so it's a no brainier. Seeing as he was supposedly granted asylum in April, that would support a backlog in processing from December, by the same career people that were carried over in the transition and also the same people supporting the original intent, plus it's early in Trumps tenure and at that moment I'm sure His focus wasn't on this.
So if we need to blame anybody, I'd say both Biden and Trump are at fault, then on the other hand, it's a fox guarding the hen house issue at the same time.

Lots of words to try to excuse Trump's incompetence.
Trump undercut the Afghan Government at Doha.
Trump signed off on giving this guy asylum.

He got here in 2021. Asylum cases are supposed to be dispositioned within 180 days. But because Trump and Miller dismantled the aslyum aparatus at USCIS, these cases drag on for years.

The real reason Trump doesn't want these cases processed is 90% of them would be approved under our own rules. So the policy became to drag it out and drag it out until people just gave up.

My wife had her asylum claim from China pending for seven years. It should have been a no-brainer, given how much we ***** about China's abuse of civil rights.

That's not true, they aren't being used for that, that would violate Posse Comitadus.

They are trained in civilian disturbances

This isn't a civil disturbance action.

Why is it necessary to say those things about Trump in particular?

Because he's a 34 time convicted felon. Duh.

What illegal orders has he given, and why did the congressfolk not cite them, so that they do not appear to just be partisan hacks trying to goad servicemembers into disobeying orders and hoping they will somehow be ruled illegal?

I'd say having the NG help ICE round up people is definitely illegal.

 

[JWBooth]

Another successful CIA-Indigenous peoples collaboration.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Lots of words to try to excuse Trump's incompetence.
Trump undercut the Afghan Government at Doha.
Trump signed off on giving this guy asylum.

He got here in 2021. Asylum cases are supposed to be dispositioned within 180 days. But because Trump and Miller dismantled the aslyum aparatus at USCIS, these cases drag on for years.

Trump was in charge of the assylum process in 2021?

The real reason Trump doesn't want these cases processed is 90% of them would be approved under our own rules. So the policy became to drag it out and drag it out until people just gave up.

You have a source that 90% os assylum requests are approved?

My wife had her asylum claim from China pending for seven years. It should have been a no-brainer, given how much we ***** about China's abuse of civil rights.

Can't comment other than to say that mostvof those 7 years were under Biden.

This isn't a civil disturbance action.

Because he's a 34 time convicted felon. Duh.

At least you tried to answer. We will know if that was the reason after the FBI interviews the Concern Troll 6.

I'd say having the NG help ICE round up people is definitely illegal.

Doubtful, since they are their to protect ICE Federal agents from attacking insurrectionists, which is spelled out as a lawful reason.

Suppose Private Joe Snuffy decides that you are correct. What exactly should he do?

 

[Delldude]

Lots of words to try to excuse Trump's incompetence.

No chance Biden's pro immigration staff did what I pointed out on both sides of the fence?

I'd say having the NG help ICE round up people is definitely illegal.

I'd say they're protecting federal ICE officer's legally performing their jobs when raving maniacal protestors attack them.

This isn't a civil disturbance action

When they attack federal officers it is.

 

[JoeB131]

Trump was in charge of the assylum process in 2021?

Nope, but he was when he got approved in 2025

You have a source that 90% os assylum requests are approved?

They aren't being heard, that's the point. They would be if they got hearings.

Can't comment other than to say that mostvof those 7 years were under Biden.

Actually, that's not true, either. Most of them were under Trump. We got married in 2023.

At least you tried to answer. We will know if that was the reason after the FBI interviews the Concern Troll 6.

Yes, that will look foolish. You can tell Trump is getting more and more desperate as even Republicans are getting tired of his schtick. Someone has yelled "The Emperor has No Clothes!"

Doubtful, since they are their to protect ICE Federal agents from attacking insurrectionists, which is spelled out as a lawful reason.

Suppose Private Joe Snuffy decides that you are correct. What exactly should he do?

Refuse to carry out unlawful orders.

"Hey, I don't think someone throwing a sandwich is an insurrection!!!"

Neither did a court.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The deadline was September 11th, dumbass

No, ya dumb old man, it wasn't. It was May 1st.

Until Biden extended it.

 

[Delldude]

No, ya dumb old man, it wasn't. It was May 1st.

Until Biden extended it.

When Biden took ownership of the Doha agreement.....

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Now ANOTHER. DEPORT THEM ALL!

 

[Seymour Flops]

Nope, but he was when he got approved in 2025

Yes, in April. Trump was in the process of getting rid of the Obama and Biden holdovers who were giving out assylum or at least temporary amnesty while waiting for a hearing like candy, with no vetting whatsoever.

He was too slow to get rid of them. He should have halted all visas, all temporary amnesties and all assylum grants until that system is fixed. Now that we know that the border can be secured without mass amnesty, if the president has the will, we don't have to listen to the Dems crying about fixing our immigration system.

The existing laws need to continue to be enforced in subsequent administrations. Then we can consider passing additional laws so long as we can be assured that they will also be enforced.

They aren't being heard, that's the point. They would be if they got hearings.


Actually, that's not true, either. Most of them were under Trump. We got married in 2023.

Again, I don't know your individual situation. You said her assylum situation was pending for 7 years. Under Trump 1.0, Biden and Obama, I'm sure you can be honest enought to admit that it was the waves of phony assylum seekers that clogged up the system for your no doubt much more deserving wife and slowed her down.

Yes, that will look foolish. You can tell Trump is getting more and more desperate as even Republicans are getting tired of his schtick. Someone has yelled "The Emperor has No Clothes!"

No, someone has yelled "Orange Man Bad" obsessively for nine years.

Refuse to carry out unlawful orders.

That's no answer.

"Hey, I don't think someone throwing a sandwich is an insurrection!!!"

Neither did a court.

So, you would advise a private, whose unit is deployed to an American city, to refuse to go, if that private determines that Trump's deployment order is unlawful?

Yes, or no, then explain all you like.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, in April. Trump was in the process of getting rid of the Obama and Biden holdovers who were giving out assylum or at least temporary amnesty while waiting for a hearing like candy, with no vetting whatsoever.

Bullshit. Here's the thing, based on the information they had at that point, there was no reason to deny this guy asylum. Whatever was happening with him, it wasn't evident.

Again, I don't know your individual situation. You said her assylum situation was pending for 7 years. Under Trump 1.0, Biden and Obama, I'm sure you can be honest enought to admit that it was the waves of phony assylum seekers that clogged up the system for your no doubt much more deserving wife and slowed her down.

Actually, I know nothing of the sort. Under our laws, most of the people who plead asylum should be admitted, because the laws are kind of vague.

Now, if you want an example of a bogus case, I give you that German family who claimed they were being oppressed because they weren't allowed to homeschool their kids. It was a bullshit claim, but it took USCIS 17 years to admit it was, and they STILL weren't deported. But, hey, they were WHITE!!!

So, you would advise a private, whose unit is deployed to an American city, to refuse to go, if that private determines that Trump's deployment order is unlawful?

Yes, or no, then explain all you like.

I think they are perfectly within their rights to throw down their rifles and refuse.

In fact, I wish more of them would do it. Let Trump try to prosecute them for not arresting their neighbors.

Do it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Here's the thing, based on the information they had at that point, there was no reason to deny this guy asylum. Whatever was happening with him, it wasn't evident.

Obviously. A simple, not even nuanced point that should be apparent to each and all.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Bullshit. Here's the thing, based on the information they had at that point, there was no reason to deny this guy asylum. Whatever was happening with him, it wasn't evident.

The reason to deny to guy this guy asylum is that our asylum is broken. We didn't and do not need a reason to deny specific individuals asylum, we only need to recognize that our asylum system if has been riddled with fraud and abuse and should be paused until the issues can addressed.

Actually, I know nothing of the sort. Under our laws, most of the people who plead asylum should be admitted, because the laws are kind of vague.

Yes, they should, until the laws are clarified.

Now, if you want an example of a bogus case, I give you that German family who claimed they were being oppressed because they weren't allowed to homeschool their kids. It was a bullshit claim, but it took USCIS 17 years to admit it was, and they STILL weren't deported. But, hey, they were WHITE!!!

Of course you can play the race guard but that is a sure a sign that you believe that you are losing an argument when I am trying to have a discussion, not play gotcha.

I think they are perfectly within their rights to throw down their rifles and refuse.

In fact, I wish more of them would do it. Let Trump try to prosecute them for not arresting their neighbors.

Do it.

They will indeed prosecuted. The Concern Troll Six will not stand up for them when that happens, they will run for cover.

Even if the USSC were to issue a final ruling that the president must withdraw the national guard from Portland, it will be up to the officers appointed over them to coordinate and command the withdrawal on the schedule directed by the president. Such a ruling would not be an excuse for any individual guardman to change into civilian clothes and hitchhike home without facing court-martial.

It won't happen because a blanket ruling that you envision that if the president's opposition disagrees with his orders, soldiers may disregard them would be a disaster for the military..

Lucky, our troops are much smarter than their leadership of the DNC, and the MP's typically deployed in such situations understand the difference between law and petulance.

 

[JoeB131]

The reason to deny to guy this guy asylum is that is that our asylum is broken. We didn't and do not need a reason to deny specific individuals asylum, we only need to recognize that our asylum system if has been riddled with fraud and abuse and should be paused until the issue can addressed

Our asylum system is broken because your boy Trump and his pet Reptile, Steven Miller, broke it.

If someone comes from a country we've designated as an abuser of human rights, then we really don't have a leg to stand on to refuse people fleeing from it asylum.

Of course you can play the race guard but that is a sure a sign that you are losing you believe that you are an argument when I am trying to have a discussion, not play gotcha.

But you aren't having a discussion. You are whining that Non-White people are coming here. I don't see you complaining about these Germans who I would argue REALLY WERE abusing the system. But some people felt they had a credible case.

They will indeed prosecuted.

Um, guy, the UMCJ doesn't apply to National Guardsmen unless they are federalized. If it is eventually ruled that Trump really had no business activating the guard for this petty bullshit, then they walk.

More to the point, it would be really bad form to court-martial guard members in peacetime.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Our asylum system is broken because your boy Trump and his pet Reptile, Steven Miller, broke it.

That is idiotic. The system broke completely when the Autopen Gang decided to make assylum a get-in-the-country-with-benefits system with zero vetting for five thousand strangers per day, plus.

If someone comes from a country we've designated as an abuser of human rights, then we really don't have a leg to stand on to refuse people fleeing from it asylum.

Yes, we have the leg of the safety of our citizens, the leg of our own sovreinty and the leg of common sense.

But you aren't having a discussion. You are whining that Non-White people are coming here.

So, you admit you're a loser who has nothing but the race card.

Congratulations.