9/11 Was Ronald Reagan's Fault

[Annie]

So says DailyKos, he removed the solar panels from the White House. Now there is a lot before and after this post:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/6/04211/23788

For those unfamiliar with this popular website, here is one of his more infamous posts:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=10440&only=yes

Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, also known as “Daily Kos,” couldn’t restrain his joy over the gruesome deaths of four of his fellow citizens yesterday, and expressed one of the ugliest sentiments I’ve seen yet on the lefty blogs (and that’s really saying something). His foul pronouncement is in the topic: Corpses on the Cover.

Let the people see what war is like. This isn’t an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush’s folly.

That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

...At the height of the shortage, rationing was put in place. Drivers of vehicles with license plates having an odd number as the last digit could purchase gasoline only on odd-numbered days of the month. Drivers with even-numbered license plates could purchase fuel only on even-numbered days.

Nixon went out, Ford went in, and the US continued its attempt to arrest the slide. In 1975, the US put in place the first fuel economy standards - standards that were designed to double the fuel efficiency of American cars and trucks within ten years. Muscle cars began to be replaced by small hatchbacks in the dealer's showrooms. Japanese imports started moving up the sales charts.

The embargo officially ended in March of 1974, but oil prices didn't drop to previous levels. In fact, OPEC continued to fiddle with supply and contracts, keeping oil at four times what it was selling for before the embargo. By the time James Earl Carter took office in 1976, gas lines were less common, but they were still not unknown. Gas stations were still occasionally shut down by temporary shortages, and prices fluctuated 100% over a few days.

Energy conservation crept into public discourse for the first time since World War II. Public programs emphasized turning off the lights, car pooling, and using public transit. For much of President Carter's term, programs continued as they had been defined after the 1973 crisis, then a second wakeup call came.

In 1979, the Iranian Revolution sent the Shah on the run, left US diplomats stranded as hostages in Tehran, and damaged the Iranian oil industry. With Iran all but off line, demand once again outstripped supply and oil prices soared. At one point in 1979, the price reached the equivalent of $80 a barrel in 2005 dollars.

With shortages and lines at the pumps for the second time in five years, ration cards were printed (though never issued). Some rationing was imposed by local governments, but it never became widespread.

Faced with fresh evidence that the US was not decreasing its dependence on foreign oil and was still as vulnerable as ever, President Carter declared that the fight to control our energy sources was "the moral equivalent of war." The FEA was elevated to the Department of Energy, and its head made a cabinet position. A comprehensive energy plan was put in place for the first time. Programs were established for creating synthetic oil from coal and other sources. Programs were created for alternative fuels, including biofuels. Programs were created to boost the US solar power industry, and for wind energy. Research into electric cars and high mileage vehicles was kicked into overdrive (pun intended). Perhaps most importantly, incentives were created for conservation and a schedule of increasingly tough mileage standards was created.

One thing that President Carter did that might come as a shock to many - he argued for, and got, deregulation of the oil industry, in hopes that this would provide incentives for further domestic production. The industry had been regulated by Nixon during the 1973 crisis, and oil companies blamed this regulation for inability to meet demand. However, when prices continued to move up after deregulation, many people began to call the 1979 crisis a "fake" engineered by the oil companies to raise prices.

In addition to more practical steps, President Carter made symbolic gestures toward saving energy. He began to give his speeches to the nation wearing a sweater to show that the White House thermostat had been turned down. He installed a wood stove in the living quarters of the White House. He had a set of solar water heating panels installed on the White House roof.

For the period of 1973 to 1980, the United States refused to walk the 9/11 highway. Rising energy prices lead the charge for near run-away inflation, and the economy wandered in and out of recession as it was battered by energy shortages. Many of the programs of that time were misguided. Some were flat out silly. But for a few years, Americans showed that they were still willing to make big changes in their lifestyles to meet the challenge of a safer, cleaner world.

Then came Ronald Reagan.

The same crisis in Iran that sent oil prices through the roof, floored President Carter's run for a second term. While Carter campaigned on a program of fiscal responsibility and energy saving, his opponent ran on a platform that encouraged consumption, massive government spending on defense, and tax cuts as a way out of the country's problems. In the second debate between the two candidates, he put off OPEC as just another excuse for why the economy wasn't doing well. Faced with a choice between a candidate who asked for further sacrifices in the name of long term prosperity and security, and a candidate who proclaimed it was "morning in America," the voters went with the later.

What happened then was the single most critical moment in American political history in more than fifty years. It didn't happen at a meeting with a foreign leader. It didn't happen on the eve of a war. It happened right in Washington D.C. and it happened before the confetti of the inaugural balls had been swept from the roads. In his very first official act as president, Reagan ordered the solar panels removed from the White House...

 

[NATO AIR]

Kos is an idiot of course, that is a given.

However, (not blaming 9/11 on reagan) but one thing that has always bothered me is this:

The way he pulled out of Lebanon after the terror attacks there could not have been a positive reinforcment of America as "stoic" in the face of casualties. Does anyone have good information on what was going on there in the White House, why we turned tail so quickly and just ran away from Lebanon? Were the Dems threatening to cut funding the way they did in Vietnam and in Somalia?

I'm interested, I'm not out to blame Reagan for everything that happened with the US in Lebanon (after all, that's Iran and Syria that deserves the full credit for the terrorists being so well-trained and attacking American marines) but I would like to know what his motivations, pressures and reasons were for having to pull out like that.

 

[William Joyce]

Reagan didn't cause 9/11. It was our Israel policy:

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/nation/9222612.htm

 

[archangel]

Kos is an idiot of course, that is a given.

However, (not blaming 9/11 on reagan) but one thing that has always bothered me is this:

The way he pulled out of Lebanon after the terror attacks there could not have been a positive reinforcment of America as "stoic" in the face of casualties. Does anyone have good information on what was going on there in the White House, why we turned tail so quickly and just ran away from Lebanon? Were the Dems threatening to cut funding the way they did in Vietnam and in Somalia?

I'm interested, I'm not out to blame Reagan for everything that happened with the US in Lebanon (after all, that's Iran and Syria that deserves the full credit for the terrorists being so well-trained and attacking American marines) but I would like to know what his motivations, pressures and reasons were for having to pull out like that.

The Liberals always take the "Cut and Run" approach to everything...They are very good at starting things,however they have a bad track record on finishing them...what can one say? :alco:

 

[5stringJeff]

Kos is an idiot of course, that is a given.

However, (not blaming 9/11 on reagan) but one thing that has always bothered me is this:

The way he pulled out of Lebanon after the terror attacks there could not have been a positive reinforcment of America as "stoic" in the face of casualties. Does anyone have good information on what was going on there in the White House, why we turned tail so quickly and just ran away from Lebanon? Were the Dems threatening to cut funding the way they did in Vietnam and in Somalia?

I'm interested, I'm not out to blame Reagan for everything that happened with the US in Lebanon (after all, that's Iran and Syria that deserves the full credit for the terrorists being so well-trained and attacking American marines) but I would like to know what his motivations, pressures and reasons were for having to pull out like that.

At the time, Arab terrorism was a minor concern. The Soviets, and how to deal with them, was the driving factor in foreign relations. I imagine that Reagan decided that it wasn't worth it to keep troops in Lebanon that could be used to stop the Soviet hordes sometime in the future.

 

[archangel]

At the time, Arab terrorism was a minor concern. The Soviets, and how to deal with them, was the driving factor in foreign relations. I imagine that Reagan decided that it wasn't worth it to keep troops in Lebanon that could be used to stop the Soviet hordes sometime in the future.

Well lets see...Reagan pulled out of Lebanon....after the terrorist attack..and you say it was a minor threat!uh hum...sorry I was a Intelligence Officer with the Department of Treasury during this time period...working on anti-terrorism threats and investigations...I really like you,however you are wrong on this one...It was pure and simple politics as usual...as it was during the Vietnam fiasco.........sigh :coffee3:

 

[freeandfun1]

If anybody is to blame, it is Carter. He ruled as radical Islam was getting its start. His allowing the Shah to fall, and then letting the Shah come here, all started the "America is Satan" crap we still hear to this day. To simply blame it on Israel and our Israeli policy is too simplistic. There are a lot of reasons but it really got started during Carter's miserable reign. The American people were screaming for us to leave Lebanon and unless Reagan wanted to declare war, he couldn't keep them there because the Dems controlled both houses and the war power's act would have kicked in after 90 days.

 

[NATO AIR]

If anybody is to blame, it is Carter. He ruled as radical Islam was getting its start. His allowing the Shah to fall, and then letting the Shah come here, all started the "America is Satan" crap we still hear to this day. To simply blame it on Israel and our Israeli policy is too simplistic. There are a lot of reasons but it really got started during Carter's miserable reign. The American people were screaming for us to leave Lebanon and unless Reagan wanted to declare war, he couldn't keep them there because the Dems controlled both houses and the war power's act would have kicked in after 90 days.

See that's what I was looking for. Thanks :teeth:

 

[archangel]

See that's what I was looking for. Thanks :teeth:

I totally agree that Carter was a whimp,however I must tell you that I was working the Mexican border south of Yuma, Arizona (San Luis) to be exact during the time that the Shah of Iran was in Mexico and a asassination attempt was made on his life while in Mexico,this was during the Reagan Administration... well I detained the attempted asassination suspects on their return to Arizona...had the bodies,weapons masks etc,etc...low and behold I was contacted by the FBI and told to release them....I complied and all my reports mysteriously disappeared from the system...this was the point of no return for this dedicated law enforcement officer....I lost alot of respect for politicians et al...sad but true....what else can one say...but I was there and I saw....The assassins were from the Pershion Gulf area..I will give no further
details as it is now irrelevant...(all four detainees were from South Yemen..had Calif dl's and addressess in San Francisco bay area)

Have a nice day and keep a open mind as to what politicians can and do to the system....

 

[freeandfun1]

I totally agree that Carter was a whimp,however I must tell you that I was working the Mexican border south of Yuma, Arizona (San Luis) to be exact during the time that the Shah of Iran was in Mexico and a asassination attempt was made on his life while in Mexico,this was during the Reagan Administration... well I detained the attempted asassination suspects on their return to Arizona...had the bodies,weapons masks etc,etc...low and behold I was contacted by the FBI and told to release them....I complied and all my reports mysteriously disappeared from the system...this was the point of no return for this dedicated law enforcement officer....I lost alot of respect for politicians et al...sad but true....what else can one say...but I was there and I saw....The assassins were from the Pershion Gulf area..I will give no further
details as it is now irrelevant...

Have a nice day and keep a open mind as to what politicians can and do to the system....

What?

My point was that in 1979, Carter let the Shah of Iran come to the US for cancer treatment. That led to the students taking US citizens as hostages in Tehran.

 

[archangel]

What?

My point was that in 1979, Carter let the Shah of Iran come to the US for cancer treatment. That led to the students taking US citizens as hostages in Tehran.

Carter did alow the Shaw to come to the US for cancer treatments..then he was dispatched to Mexico promply..a attempt on his life was made while in Mexico... no further details on my envolvment will be given...still classifed...
Just made the point that all things are not exactly as they appear on the surface...if you get my drift!

 

[KarlMarx]

So says DailyKos, he removed the solar panels from the White House. Now there is a lot before and after this post:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/6/04211/23788

For those unfamiliar with this popular website, here is one of his more infamous posts:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=10440&only=yes

A few rules of thumb to help us to understand this logic
1. No matter what, it's always America's fault.
2. Countries and NGOs that are hostile to America and Americans are that way not because their religion, politics etc teaches them to hate, it's because of something that America did (for clarification, see rule #1)
3. When in doubt, if it is a choice between sticking up for America or being an apologist for the enemy, refer to rule #1.
4. If two events coincide, one MUST cause the other, there is no other explanation (see rule #1), EXCEPT of course, if it blames the enemy or makes the enemy responsible then see rule #1
5. If we have a Republican or conservative president, use rule #1, but if we have a liberal or Democrat president, use rule #1 THEN use a variation of rule #1 i.e. "no matter what, it's always the Republicans or the Right's fault"
6. If for some reason (as remote the possibility should be) that conservative policies bring about something positive e.g. the fall of the Soviet Union or a strengthening of the economy, dismiss it as merely circumstantial, but nonetheless use rule #1 and rule #5 as a guide.

I believe that this should help us understand the logic behind articles such as the one you referred to.

 

[Merlin1047]

When Iranian students seized our embassy and held its staff hostage, that was an act of war - period. Carter's spineless response caused this country to be viewed as a bloated bag of hot air, unwilling to take action even in the face of egregious insult. We're still being attacked because of the impression that Jimmy Carter's cowardice left upon radical moslems throughout the world.

We'll probably be attacked again and probably more than once. A lot of Americans and a lot of muslims will die before this issue is settled. I hope there is a very special hell for Jimmy Carter to rot in.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

How typical of people like kos to defend Carter and attack Reagan when, if anything, he should attack Carter and defend Reagan.