9/11 Deniers Speak - Ground Zero Edition

[eots]

I am going to hate myself for jumping into this thread.....


The calling card of the conspiracy theorist is grabbing onto one or two single points and then twisting the analysis of said points to fit thier current view. Often these occurances happen during periods of great stress, which makes it hard for people at the scene at the time to remember everything with perfect detail and clarity. The smallest discepancy is blown out of proportion and slapped together with other points similarly construed.

Another calling card is what I call the spaghetti approach to alternative causes and effects. Multiple "plausible" reasons for something to not as the offical story states are brought up, often thsese points are contridictory. They are however used to make the case that since X Y and Z COULD have happened, then Case A (the widely held view of what happened) is suspect. They also hit Case A with trivial and often untrue defects that are designed to make case A unlkely in thier minds. Never mind Case X could not happen if Case Y was true, they market both as reasons Case A is wrong.

For me to even start to believe a conspiracy theorists viewpoints on an event I would need the following:

1. A clear comprehensive theory on what actually happened, not multiple explainations why each event happened. Give me 1 linear chain of how the whole thing happened for me to analyze compared to the base explaination.

2. A strong refutation of why the whole baseline explanation is flawed. Not 1-2 minor niggling points that take exercises in doublethink to believe. This has to be done indepentently of task 1

3. If your explanation includes a cover up explain who paid and how they got the money, or give me a ballpark figure of how many people had to "disappear" and how group X got away with it.

There are other points but I'm sure this is enough for the truthers to call me either a sheeple or a goverment plant. For the goverment plant part I would like to know where my coverup money is. I like small bills, $10's and $20's.

I look forward to seeing how you applied this scrutiny to the Official Conspiracy Theory. Surely I don't have to ask "if" you have done that because I'm sure you have.

From the data Ive seen the offical story is valid, and it isn't a conspiracy. If you want me to consider an alternative theory provide one, starting at the beginning and following a logical conlcusion to the end. One single alternative theory, not a hodgepodge of alternative meanings to small events unrelated to each other.

an what data have you seen ?

 

[DiveCon]

It's not surprising they've ignored the Fox link I posted. If there were no firefighters inside then it doesn't make sense he said to pull it if there was no firefighting operation to pull.

dipshit, at the time that was said there were STILL fire fighters inside WTC7
thats why they were pulled out
"pull" is a fire fighter term dating back to the days before they had radios, they would "pull" the hose telling them to get the fuck out
get it yet?

firefighters were out of the building for hours when the decision to pull the building was made

wrong

 

[martybegan]

I look forward to seeing how you applied this scrutiny to the Official Conspiracy Theory. Surely I don't have to ask "if" you have done that because I'm sure you have.

From the data Ive seen the offical story is valid, and it isn't a conspiracy. If you want me to consider an alternative theory provide one, starting at the beginning and following a logical conlcusion to the end. One single alternative theory, not a hodgepodge of alternative meanings to small events unrelated to each other.

an what data have you seen ?

Remember I'm not as obsessed with this as some people are. My problem is when It comes to conspiracy theories about it they all get pushed on you at once, So you have all these contidictory chains of how it could have happened.

I agree with the offical report. So please if you do not agree with it propose another complete alternate theory of how it happened from that morning to the end of the day.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Dude thats reaching.

Can you show firefighters were in building 7 when silverstein made the comment? If there were no firefighters....firefighting....then you have a good point.

Here's a recent article from Fox shedding new light......

"Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building – since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.
A controlled demolition would have minimized the damage caused by the building ’s imminent collapse and potentially save lives."
Http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...re-book-lies-truthers-ground-zero-sept-shame/


First, let me apologize for using such an unreliable source like Fox, but I think this warrants a look.

The most obvious question is this: if silverstein thought the building was too unstable to have firefighters inside, who was going to plant the demo explosives?

Shapiro really fucks up by saying:

"Building 7 suddenly collapsed, and before it hit the ground, not a single sound emanated from the tower area. There were no explosives; I would have heard them. In fact, I remember that in those few seconds, as the building sank to the ground that I was stunned by how quiet it was."

Any skyscraper coming down is not going to be quiet. He tries to argue against demos being used by his "surprised how quiet" it was. Is he fuxxing joking? The major problem is there are first responder eyewitnesses who heard the explosions that Shapiro somehow missed. His "quiet" theory is as laughable as Snitch Bitch trying to compare an F4 hitting a concrete wall to a 757 hitting a field in PA.

All these witnesses who heard the demo explosions yet not one audio tape of the explosions. Plenty of video that should have picked them up, but not a one did.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Dude thats reaching.

Can you show firefighters were in building 7 when silverstein made the comment? If there were no firefighters....firefighting....then you have a good point.

Here's a recent article from Fox shedding new light......

"Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building – since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.
A controlled demolition would have minimized the damage caused by the building ’s imminent collapse and potentially save lives."
Http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...re-book-lies-truthers-ground-zero-sept-shame/


First, let me apologize for using such an unreliable source like Fox, but I think this warrants a look.

The most obvious question is this: if silverstein thought the building was too unstable to have firefighters inside, who was going to plant the demo explosives?

Shapiro really fucks up by saying:

"Building 7 suddenly collapsed, and before it hit the ground, not a single sound emanated from the tower area. There were no explosives; I would have heard them. In fact, I remember that in those few seconds, as the building sank to the ground that I was stunned by how quiet it was."

Any skyscraper coming down is not going to be quiet. He tries to argue against demos being used by his "surprised how quiet" it was. Is he fuxxing joking? The major problem is there are first responder eyewitnesses who heard the explosions that Shapiro somehow missed. His "quiet" theory is as laughable as Snitch Bitch trying to compare an F4 hitting a concrete wall to a 757 hitting a field in PA.

All these witnesses who heard the demo explosions yet not one audio tape of the explosions. Plenty of video that should have picked them up, but not a one did.

Duh, don't you watch Rocky and Bullwinkle? The government used a hush-a-bomb

 

[SFC Ollie]

Can you show firefighters were in building 7 when silverstein made the comment? If there were no firefighters....firefighting....then you have a good point.

Here's a recent article from Fox shedding new light......

"Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building – since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.
A controlled demolition would have minimized the damage caused by the building ’s imminent collapse and potentially save lives."
Http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...re-book-lies-truthers-ground-zero-sept-shame/


First, let me apologize for using such an unreliable source like Fox, but I think this warrants a look.

The most obvious question is this: if silverstein thought the building was too unstable to have firefighters inside, who was going to plant the demo explosives?

Shapiro really fucks up by saying:

"Building 7 suddenly collapsed, and before it hit the ground, not a single sound emanated from the tower area. There were no explosives; I would have heard them. In fact, I remember that in those few seconds, as the building sank to the ground that I was stunned by how quiet it was."

Any skyscraper coming down is not going to be quiet. He tries to argue against demos being used by his "surprised how quiet" it was. Is he fuxxing joking? The major problem is there are first responder eyewitnesses who heard the explosions that Shapiro somehow missed. His "quiet" theory is as laughable as Snitch Bitch trying to compare an F4 hitting a concrete wall to a 757 hitting a field in PA.

All these witnesses who heard the demo explosions yet not one audio tape of the explosions. Plenty of video that should have picked them up, but not a one did.

Duh, don't you watch Rocky and Bullwinkle? The government used a hush-a-bomb

Shh! Those are secret.

 

[eots]

from the data ive seen the offical story is valid, and it isn't a conspiracy. If you want me to consider an alternative theory provide one, starting at the beginning and following a logical conlcusion to the end. One single alternative theory, not a hodgepodge of alternative meanings to small events unrelated to each other.

an what data have you seen ?

remember i'm not as obsessed with this as some people are. My problem is when it comes to conspiracy theories about it they all get pushed on you at once, so you have all these contidictory chains of how it could have happened.

I agree with the official report. So please if you do not agree with it propose another complete alternate theory of how it happened from that morning to the end of the day.

a re-investigation would not be required if all those answers were definitely available it is enough that the official story is questionable and incomplete

 

[eots]

dipshit, at the time that was said there were still fire fighters inside wtc7
thats why they were pulled out
"pull" is a fire fighter term dating back to the days before they had radios, they would "pull" the hose telling them to get the fuck out
get it yet?

firefighters were out of the building for hours when the decision to pull the building was made

wrong

no its not wrong idiot..firefighters had been removed from the building over 2 hrs before the collapse...stfu

 

[DiveCon]

firefighters were out of the building for hours when the decision to pull the building was made

wrong

no its not wrong idiot..firefighters had been removed from the building over 2 hrs before the collapse...stfu

no shit dipshit
but the call for the PULL came MANY hours before the collapse
OMG you are such a fucktard

 

[CurveLight]

I am going to hate myself for jumping into this thread.....


The calling card of the conspiracy theorist is grabbing onto one or two single points and then twisting the analysis of said points to fit thier current view. Often these occurances happen during periods of great stress, which makes it hard for people at the scene at the time to remember everything with perfect detail and clarity. The smallest discepancy is blown out of proportion and slapped together with other points similarly construed.

Another calling card is what I call the spaghetti approach to alternative causes and effects. Multiple "plausible" reasons for something to not as the offical story states are brought up, often thsese points are contridictory. They are however used to make the case that since X Y and Z COULD have happened, then Case A (the widely held view of what happened) is suspect. They also hit Case A with trivial and often untrue defects that are designed to make case A unlkely in thier minds. Never mind Case X could not happen if Case Y was true, they market both as reasons Case A is wrong.

For me to even start to believe a conspiracy theorists viewpoints on an event I would need the following:

1. A clear comprehensive theory on what actually happened, not multiple explainations why each event happened. Give me 1 linear chain of how the whole thing happened for me to analyze compared to the base explaination.

2. A strong refutation of why the whole baseline explanation is flawed. Not 1-2 minor niggling points that take exercises in doublethink to believe. This has to be done indepentently of task 1

3. If your explanation includes a cover up explain who paid and how they got the money, or give me a ballpark figure of how many people had to "disappear" and how group X got away with it.

There are other points but I'm sure this is enough for the truthers to call me either a sheeple or a goverment plant. For the goverment plant part I would like to know where my coverup money is. I like small bills, $10's and $20's.

I look forward to seeing how you applied this scrutiny to the Official Conspiracy Theory. Surely I don't have to ask "if" you have done that because I'm sure you have.

From the data Ive seen the offical story is valid, and it isn't a conspiracy. If you want me to consider an alternative theory provide one, starting at the beginning and following a logical conlcusion to the end. One single alternative theory, not a hodgepodge of alternative meanings to small events unrelated to each other.

I didn't ask you to consider an alternative theory. Hell, you already abandoned your own argument in favor of a strawman. I asked you to apply your own criteria to the OCT and you dodged just like I expected you to do.

 

[CurveLight]

Yeah its a well known fact that there were no firefighters in the building when he made the comment.interesting that they mentioned a controlled demolition.very interesting.thats what these news networks do,they will air something like that once and you never hear it again,they dont want important information like that to get out.

yeah his quiet theory is as laughable as snitch bitches theory.the other thing that exposes Silverstein as a liar is a radio show host once called in a demolition company and asked the operater if the word pull it is used in demolitions and she asked the show host to hold for a minute and she would check with one of the head CEO'S and she came back and said yes he was correct,that the term "PULL IT" IS used in controlled demolitions.this was all on a live radio broadcast.The tohert thing that exposes Siliverstein as the freaking liar he is have you seen those videos where they were going to demolish some of the other buildings that had been severely damaged by the debris and one of the demo specialists there says-Okay lets get ready to pull it.then shortly after he says that,they demolish the building.its in one of my canada wants the truth videos i have posted the link to here hundreds of times only to watch the agents that have penetratyed this site like FIZZ to not even bother watching cause they know they cant refute those videos everytime i ask them to comment on them.

It's not surprising they've ignored the Fox link I posted. If there were no firefighters inside then it doesn't make sense he said to pull it if there was no firefighting operation to pull.

dipshit, at the time that was said there were STILL fire fighters inside WTC7
thats why they were pulled out
"pull" is a fire fighter term dating back to the days before they had radios, they would "pull" the hose telling them to get the fuck out
get it yet?

Typical bullshit of you making claims you'll never support. Fuxxing hypocrite. You will prove me correct by doing nothing but whining in your response instead of proving there was a firefighting operation.

 

[CurveLight]

From the data Ive seen the offical story is valid, and it isn't a conspiracy. If you want me to consider an alternative theory provide one, starting at the beginning and following a logical conlcusion to the end. One single alternative theory, not a hodgepodge of alternative meanings to small events unrelated to each other.

an what data have you seen ?

Remember I'm not as obsessed with this as some people are. My problem is when It comes to conspiracy theories about it they all get pushed on you at once, So you have all these contidictory chains of how it could have happened.

I agree with the offical report. So please if you do not agree with it propose another complete alternate theory of how it happened from that morning to the end of the day.

Rotfl! Another dodge! Fuck off you pathetic crybaby. He asked what data you have seen and you completely ignored the simple question. You will keep dodging and squirm away like a little snake by saying it isn't important enough to go into......

 

[RadiomanATL]

Summary of thread (paraphrasing):

Marty: If you disbelieve the official version, please propose an alternate theory thats fits all the known and undisputed facts

Loons: Oh yeah, well YOU need to prove that the official version is real first.

Marty: I accept the official version because it fits all known facts and circumstances. Occam's razor at work, there is no need to dig deeper. Please, if you disagree with the official version postulate another theory which fits all known facts.

Loons: SEE?!!? I said that you would dodge the question you fuxxing hypocrite strawman whiney WARRRGBBBHLLLLL!!!?!!!11!.




...and yet Marty's original request goes unanswered. There is ducking and dodging going on in this thread, but Marty ain't doing it.

 

[CurveLight]

Summary of thread (paraphrasing):

Marty: If you disbelieve the official version, please propose an alternate theory thats fits all the known and undisputed facts

Loons: Oh yeah, well YOU need to prove that the official version is real first.

Marty: I accept the official version because it fits all known facts and circumstances. Occam's razor at work, there is no need to dig deeper. Please, if you disagree with the official version postulate another theory which fits all known facts.

Loons: SEE?!!? I said that you would dodge the question you fuxxing hypocrite strawman whiney WARRRGBBBHLLLLL!!!?!!!11!.




...and yet Marty's original request goes unanswered. There is ducking and dodging going on in this thread, but Marty ain't doing it.

You're such a whiny little girl. I just proved marty loves hypocrisy like you and many others as he wouldn't even apply his own criteria to his own position. You also fail to realize the false dilemma you jackasses live by but that's okay.....you keep making an ass of yourself....

(let me guess.....you're scratching your head about that one)

 

[RadiomanATL]

Summary of thread (paraphrasing):

Marty: If you disbelieve the official version, please propose an alternate theory thats fits all the known and undisputed facts

Loons: Oh yeah, well YOU need to prove that the official version is real first.

Marty: I accept the official version because it fits all known facts and circumstances. Occam's razor at work, there is no need to dig deeper. Please, if you disagree with the official version postulate another theory which fits all known facts.

Loons: SEE?!!? I said that you would dodge the question you fuxxing hypocrite strawman whiney WARRRGBBBHLLLLL!!!?!!!11!.




...and yet Marty's original request goes unanswered. There is ducking and dodging going on in this thread, but Marty ain't doing it.

You're such a whiny little girl. I just proved marty loves hypocrisy like you and many others as he wouldn't even apply his own criteria to his own position. You also fail to realize the false dilemma you jackasses live by but that's okay.....you keep making an ass of yourself....

(let me guess.....you're scratching your head about that one)

More dodging ducking and spinning, and accusing others of hypocrisy when your own is on display for the world.

Answer Marty. Give an alternate theory that fits all known undisputed facts. Take a stand for once in your life.

 

[DiveCon]

It's not surprising they've ignored the Fox link I posted. If there were no firefighters inside then it doesn't make sense he said to pull it if there was no firefighting operation to pull.

dipshit, at the time that was said there were STILL fire fighters inside WTC7
thats why they were pulled out
"pull" is a fire fighter term dating back to the days before they had radios, they would "pull" the hose telling them to get the fuck out
get it yet?

Typical bullshit of you making claims you'll never support. Fuxxing hypocrite. You will prove me correct by doing nothing but whining in your response instead of proving there was a firefighting operation.

dipshit, you will never see me give you morons anything as far as reaserch till you begin to show that it would be worth my time
i have, in the past done so for you moronic types and you always do the same thing
just as you have done here
you never actually take a stand for yourself
you just call everyone OCTA's with nothing to show what you actually believe

 

[CurveLight]

Summary of thread (paraphrasing):

Marty: If you disbelieve the official version, please propose an alternate theory thats fits all the known and undisputed facts

Loons: Oh yeah, well YOU need to prove that the official version is real first.

Marty: I accept the official version because it fits all known facts and circumstances. Occam's razor at work, there is no need to dig deeper. Please, if you disagree with the official version postulate another theory which fits all known facts.

Loons: SEE?!!? I said that you would dodge the question you fuxxing hypocrite strawman whiney WARRRGBBBHLLLLL!!!?!!!11!.




...and yet Marty's original request goes unanswered. There is ducking and dodging going on in this thread, but Marty ain't doing it.

You're such a whiny little girl. I just proved marty loves hypocrisy like you and many others as he wouldn't even apply his own criteria to his own position. You also fail to realize the false dilemma you jackasses live by but that's okay.....you keep making an ass of yourself....

(let me guess.....you're scratching your head about that one)

More dodging ducking and spinning, and accusing others of hypocrisy when your own is on display for the world.

Answer Marty. Give an alternate theory that fits all known undisputed facts. Take a stand for once in your life.

What hypocrisy am I guilty of? Why demand I support a claim I have not made? I've also made my position on this quite clear but I gotta say....you obey very well because I said to keep making an ass of yourself and you did....like you will keep on doing.

The reason jackasses like you won't support your claims is because you've never really studied 9E. You fall back on logical fallacies and just whine and simply claim anyone who disagrees with you is a loon. You're a fuxxing idiot of a joke. You don't know your own job but you want to pretend to be informed about 9E.

 

[CurveLight]

dipshit, at the time that was said there were STILL fire fighters inside WTC7
thats why they were pulled out
"pull" is a fire fighter term dating back to the days before they had radios, they would "pull" the hose telling them to get the fuck out
get it yet?

Typical bullshit of you making claims you'll never support. Fuxxing hypocrite. You will prove me correct by doing nothing but whining in your response instead of proving there was a firefighting operation.

dipshit, you will never see me give you morons anything as far as reaserch till you begin to show that it would be worth my time
i have, in the past done so for you moronic types and you always do the same thing
just as you have done here
you never actually take a stand for yourself
you just call everyone OCTA's with nothing to show what you actually believe

You will prove me correct by doing nothing but whining in your response instead of proving there was a firefighting operation.

 

[RadiomanATL]

You're such a whiny little girl. I just proved marty loves hypocrisy like you and many others as he wouldn't even apply his own criteria to his own position. You also fail to realize the false dilemma you jackasses live by but that's okay.....you keep making an ass of yourself....

(let me guess.....you're scratching your head about that one)

More dodging ducking and spinning, and accusing others of hypocrisy when your own is on display for the world.

Answer Marty. Give an alternate theory that fits all known undisputed facts. Take a stand for once in your life.

What hypocrisy am I guilty of? Why demand I support a claim I have not made? I've also made my position on this quite clear but I gotta say....you obey very well because I said to keep making an ass of yourself and you did....like you will keep on doing.

The reason jackasses like you won't support your claims is because you've never really studied 9E. You fall back on logical fallacies and just whine and simply claim anyone who disagrees with you is a loon. You're a fuxxing idiot of a joke. You don't know your own job but you want to pretend to be informed about 9E.

Your claim is that you reject the official version of events.

Back it up with an alternate theory.

Go.

 

[DiveCon]

More dodging ducking and spinning, and accusing others of hypocrisy when your own is on display for the world.

Answer Marty. Give an alternate theory that fits all known undisputed facts. Take a stand for once in your life.

What hypocrisy am I guilty of? Why demand I support a claim I have not made? I've also made my position on this quite clear but I gotta say....you obey very well because I said to keep making an ass of yourself and you did....like you will keep on doing.

The reason jackasses like you won't support your claims is because you've never really studied 9E. You fall back on logical fallacies and just whine and simply claim anyone who disagrees with you is a loon. You're a fuxxing idiot of a joke. You don't know your own job but you want to pretend to be informed about 9E.

Your claim is that you reject the official version of events.

Back it up with an alternate theory.

Go.

he wont