81% rate hike for Obamacare - enough yet?

[Doc1]

81% rate hike for Obamacare - enough yet?

Now would be a really good time for Trump to produce the replacement he said he had. Every increase in health care costs is on him now and the fools who believed him. Trump lied and now his supporters who were stupid enough to believe him all have to pay serious cash for that mistake.

You cannot ask for better poetic justice than that.

It was the little black BOY that put Obamacare in place. Without that travesty being started, nothing would have to be done. However, if anyone is to blame, it's McCain. I guess when he couldn't even beat a black guy for President, he had to do something to save face.

Nonbrainwashed people realized the old corrupt GOP/Big Health/17%+ of GDP/ER care/bankruptcy/scam, cutoffs was killing people and prosperity, and something had to be done. This ACA is the supposed GOP plan (of course just a canard- they love that Big Health/AMA money too much...) and will work when the bought off GOP stops sabotaging it and allows some tinkering- which will go on forever just as it does everywhere else...

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

 

[Conservative65]

Democrats think all jobs come from the government.

These resident liberals keep vomiting about how we vote against our best interest, when its Democrats policies that are the job killers. Confiscating and redistributing the 'rich' money won't work, they don't have enough money to gift a good life to the other 300 million people. Doing so would kill jobs and any chance of people working their way up the ladder to a better life. Democrats policies are a flesh eating bacteria.

What they're really saying is we vote against their best interests. Last time I looked, it's not my place to do for them.

Its simple, Democrat policies keep poor people poor. So Democrat politicians invent a boogeyman to blame for this, the 'rich'.

Poor people tend to be frustrated at their situation despite most of them being that way due to their own choices in life. Because of that frustration, they are at wits end in figuring out how to get out of it. Since they are frustrated, it's easy to convince them that it's not their fault. They live under the viewpoint that the economy operates as a zero sum game with the pie being a fixed size believing if they don't have something someone else took it from them. Since the rich have things, who else would the Democrat use to blame.

Some poor people made bad choices, but having lived in several Democrat run states the problem is Democrats vampire suck the poor dry with taxes and fees that hit the poor the hardest. Its not Dem vs Rep in these Democrat run states, its Dem politicians and their public employee union pals vs the citizens, with Dem's and the public employee unions bleeding the state dry, poor Dem's, poor Rep's everyone is vamp sucked. Hence the middle class fleeing states like California and Michigan.

If they continue to live in those states/cities, isn't that a choice?

 

[francoHFW]

If the American people wanted to keep Obamacare and pay more for health care they would have elected Clinton. Trump promised health care at a fraction of the cost. Every hike from this point onward is on him now. I am very happy to see the people stupid enough to believe him having to pay hard cash for their big mistake. It is just a shame that every American has to suffer because of them too.

Actually its fun and interesting to watch idiots post and say stupid things. You qualify. Bitchlery lost because as the worst candidate in modern history.

According to 25 years of total bs character assassination...Now we get wonderful TrumpCare- Fantastic cheap care for EVERYONE!!! Right, dupes?

 

[francoHFW]

Now would be a really good time for Trump to produce the replacement he said he had. Every increase in health care costs is on him now and the fools who believed him. Trump lied and now his supporters who were stupid enough to believe him all have to pay serious cash for that mistake.

You cannot ask for better poetic justice than that.

It was the little black BOY that put Obamacare in place. Without that travesty being started, nothing would have to be done. However, if anyone is to blame, it's McCain. I guess when he couldn't even beat a black guy for President, he had to do something to save face.

Nonbrainwashed people realized the old corrupt GOP/Big Health/17%+ of GDP/ER care/bankruptcy/scam, cutoffs was killing people and prosperity, and something had to be done. This ACA is the supposed GOP plan (of course just a canard- they love that Big Health/AMA money too much...) and will work when the bought off GOP stops sabotaging it and allows some tinkering- which will go on forever just as it does everywhere else...

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

Huge difference DUHHHHH. Too bad Dems haven't had actual control since LBJ. OK, 3 weeks under Obama, and the poor and lower class got free basic health care and the country a Big Health cure- oops sabotaged by the GOP. All the greedy megarich GOP cares about is tax cuts for the rich, dupe.

 

[Conservative65]

It was the little black BOY that put Obamacare in place. Without that travesty being started, nothing would have to be done. However, if anyone is to blame, it's McCain. I guess when he couldn't even beat a black guy for President, he had to do something to save face.

Nonbrainwashed people realized the old corrupt GOP/Big Health/17%+ of GDP/ER care/bankruptcy/scam, cutoffs was killing people and prosperity, and something had to be done. This ACA is the supposed GOP plan (of course just a canard- they love that Big Health/AMA money too much...) and will work when the bought off GOP stops sabotaging it and allows some tinkering- which will go on forever just as it does everywhere else...

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

Huge difference DUHHHHH. Too bad Dems haven't had actual control since LBJ. OK, 3 weeks under Obama, and the poor and lower class got free basic health care and the country a Big Health cure- oops sabotaged by the GOP. All the greedy megarich GOP cares about is tax cuts for the rich, dupe.

That's a lie. During the failed Presidency of Carter, both houses were controlled significantly by Democrats. The way they and the 2nd worst President in history did is what brought about Reagan.

During the first two years, not 3 weeks of Obama's presidency, Democrats controlled both houses. The reason that Obama is the worst President is it only took him 2 years to fuck up things where it took Carter 4.

Again, it's not greedy to want to keep what is yours. All the Democrats care about is seeing how much of someone else's money they can hand a freeloader unwilling to do for him/herself.
If Obama was as good as you claim, he should have been able to easily overcome all the obstruction you claim occurred. It either tells me he's not as good as you say or there wasn't the obstruction you claim as an excuse for having another unqualified black in a government job.

 

[francoHFW]

Nonbrainwashed people realized the old corrupt GOP/Big Health/17%+ of GDP/ER care/bankruptcy/scam, cutoffs was killing people and prosperity, and something had to be done. This ACA is the supposed GOP plan (of course just a canard- they love that Big Health/AMA money too much...) and will work when the bought off GOP stops sabotaging it and allows some tinkering- which will go on forever just as it does everywhere else...

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

Huge difference DUHHHHH. Too bad Dems haven't had actual control since LBJ. OK, 3 weeks under Obama, and the poor and lower class got free basic health care and the country a Big Health cure- oops sabotaged by the GOP. All the greedy megarich GOP cares about is tax cuts for the rich, dupe.

That's a lie. During the failed Presidency of Carter, both houses were controlled significantly by Democrats. The way they and the 2nd worst President in history did is what brought about Reagan.

During the first two years, not 3 weeks of Obama's presidency, Democrats controlled both houses. The reason that Obama is the worst President is it only took him 2 years to fuck up things where it took Carter 4.

Obama had 60 votes in the Senate for 34 or 20 some days in session, despite what dupes think. First, Franken wasn't seated til 7/7/09, then Teddy was out, then Scott Brown was seated 2/4/09. See how duped you fools are?

 

[Conservative65]

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

Huge difference DUHHHHH. Too bad Dems haven't had actual control since LBJ. OK, 3 weeks under Obama, and the poor and lower class got free basic health care and the country a Big Health cure- oops sabotaged by the GOP. All the greedy megarich GOP cares about is tax cuts for the rich, dupe.

That's a lie. During the failed Presidency of Carter, both houses were controlled significantly by Democrats. The way they and the 2nd worst President in history did is what brought about Reagan.

During the first two years, not 3 weeks of Obama's presidency, Democrats controlled both houses. The reason that Obama is the worst President is it only took him 2 years to fuck up things where it took Carter 4.

Obama had 60 votes in the Senate for 34 or 20 some days in session, despite what dupes think. First, Franken wasn't seated til 7/7/09, then Teddy was out, then Scott Brown was seated 2/4/09. See how duped you fools are?

Doesn't change the little black boy fucked up in 2 years what took Carter 4.

Doesn't change that you were wrong in claiming no Democrat had total control since LBJ.

 

[Conservative65]

WTH is wrong with you? Enjoy the giant tax cut for the rich. Oh, richer than you...and GOP dereg bubble/bust......

Why shouldn't those that have been footing the bill get a cut and that applies to everyone that foots the bill. The 50% in this country that pay zero income tax have been freeloading long enough. It's high time they pay their fair share and quit expecting others to pay more into something to which they pay nothing.

Do you know what a family of four has to have as a family income before paying a dime in income taxes based solely on the makeup of the family? I can tell you but I want you to guess.

They already pay plenty, dupe. Fed income taxes are NOT the only kind of taxes, dupe.
The one tax graph you really need to know

By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

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Your daily policy cheat sheet from Wonkblog.



But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

That's really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income -- which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.

When politicians try to convince you that half of Americans aren't really paying taxes, it's usually because the real data undermines their preferred policies. For instance, you wouldn't look at these numbers and think tax cuts for the rich need to be a huge priority. And that's one reason people who want more tax cuts for the rich don't like to show you these numbers.

That's the one you used several months ago claiming everyone paid between 20 - 30%. When I showed you it was wrong, you still didn't admit your mistake. Now you change your story. Typical NL.

You showed me BS. I said if you count all taxes and fees, everyone pays between 20-30%. Check the ridiculous fees we have now as as states and localities try to make ends meet- and you'll see I'm right... Get over your brainwashed/racist obsession with the poor. The megarich don't pay enough and the middle class and the country have been slowly ruined the last 35 years.

Months ago you said taxes. When I pointed out the fault in your chart and your claim, that's when you mentioned fees.

Get over your love for those that contribute nothing to society. Next time you need something, see how much you can get from those freeloaders.

 

[Conservative65]

Democrats think all jobs come from the government.

These resident liberals keep vomiting about how we vote against our best interest, when its Democrats policies that are the job killers. Confiscating and redistributing the 'rich' money won't work, they don't have enough money to gift a good life to the other 300 million people. Doing so would kill jobs and any chance of people working their way up the ladder to a better life. Democrats policies are a flesh eating bacteria.

What they're really saying is we vote against their best interests. Last time I looked, it's not my place to do for them.

Its simple, Democrat policies keep poor people poor. So Democrat politicians invent a boogeyman to blame for this, the 'rich'.

Poor people tend to be frustrated at their situation despite most of them being that way due to their own choices in life. Because of that frustration, they are at wits end in figuring out how to get out of it. Since they are frustrated, it's easy to convince them that it's not their fault. They live under the viewpoint that the economy operates as a zero sum game with the pie being a fixed size believing if they don't have something someone else took it from them. Since the rich have things, who else would the Democrat use to blame.

Thanks for the irrelevant RW "common sense" BS- It's the poor's fault lol. Meanwhile, college and training costs etc etc have gotten out of hand the last 35 years too, all to save the megarich bottom line, dupe. WE need a Dem control regime for 4 years. Last time: LBJ.

You had one with your little black boy from 2009 - 2011. He failed.

Most people are poor of their own doing. Not anyone else's place to offset their failures.

 

[Conservative65]

WTH is wrong with you? Enjoy the giant tax cut for the rich. Oh, richer than you...and GOP dereg bubble/bust......

Why shouldn't those that have been footing the bill get a cut and that applies to everyone that foots the bill. The 50% in this country that pay zero income tax have been freeloading long enough. It's high time they pay their fair share and quit expecting others to pay more into something to which they pay nothing.

Do you know what a family of four has to have as a family income before paying a dime in income taxes based solely on the makeup of the family? I can tell you but I want you to guess.

Everyone pays about the same % in taxes, superdupe, with the rich getting all the new wealth and the middle class and the country slowly falling apart. Sorry about facts.

That's a lie.

When half of the people pay zero income taxes, they don't make up the difference in things like sales taxes.

 

[francoHFW]

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

Huge difference DUHHHHH. Too bad Dems haven't had actual control since LBJ. OK, 3 weeks under Obama, and the poor and lower class got free basic health care and the country a Big Health cure- oops sabotaged by the GOP. All the greedy megarich GOP cares about is tax cuts for the rich, dupe.

That's a lie. During the failed Presidency of Carter, both houses were controlled significantly by Democrats. The way they and the 2nd worst President in history did is what brought about Reagan.

During the first two years, not 3 weeks of Obama's presidency, Democrats controlled both houses. The reason that Obama is the worst President is it only took him 2 years to fuck up things where it took Carter 4.

Obama had 60 votes in the Senate for 34 or 20 some days in session, despite what dupes think. First, Franken wasn't seated til 7/7/09, then Teddy was out, then Scott Brown was seated 2/4/09. See how duped you fools are?

Doesn't change the little black boy fucked up in 2 years what took Carter 4.

Doesn't change that you were wrong in claiming no Democrat had total control since LBJ.

Except Carter had as much trouble with Teddie and Dems as he had with the GOP...

 

[francoHFW]

WTH is wrong with you? Enjoy the giant tax cut for the rich. Oh, richer than you...and GOP dereg bubble/bust......

Why shouldn't those that have been footing the bill get a cut and that applies to everyone that foots the bill. The 50% in this country that pay zero income tax have been freeloading long enough. It's high time they pay their fair share and quit expecting others to pay more into something to which they pay nothing.

Do you know what a family of four has to have as a family income before paying a dime in income taxes based solely on the makeup of the family? I can tell you but I want you to guess.

Everyone pays about the same % in taxes, superdupe, with the rich getting all the new wealth and the middle class and the country slowly falling apart. Sorry about facts.

That's a lie.

When half of the people pay zero income taxes, they don't make up the difference in things like sales taxes.

Sorry about facts. Payroll taxes are now as much in total as fed income taxes after all the GOP cuts ...

 

[francoHFW]

These resident liberals keep vomiting about how we vote against our best interest, when its Democrats policies that are the job killers. Confiscating and redistributing the 'rich' money won't work, they don't have enough money to gift a good life to the other 300 million people. Doing so would kill jobs and any chance of people working their way up the ladder to a better life. Democrats policies are a flesh eating bacteria.

What they're really saying is we vote against their best interests. Last time I looked, it's not my place to do for them.

Its simple, Democrat policies keep poor people poor. So Democrat politicians invent a boogeyman to blame for this, the 'rich'.

Poor people tend to be frustrated at their situation despite most of them being that way due to their own choices in life. Because of that frustration, they are at wits end in figuring out how to get out of it. Since they are frustrated, it's easy to convince them that it's not their fault. They live under the viewpoint that the economy operates as a zero sum game with the pie being a fixed size believing if they don't have something someone else took it from them. Since the rich have things, who else would the Democrat use to blame.

Thanks for the irrelevant RW "common sense" BS- It's the poor's fault lol. Meanwhile, college and training costs etc etc have gotten out of hand the last 35 years too, all to save the megarich bottom line, dupe. WE need a Dem control regime for 4 years. Last time: LBJ.

You had one with your little black boy from 2009 - 2011. He failed.

Most people are poor of their own doing. Not anyone else's place to offset their failures.

11 days and 36 days of special session for ACA...

The Myth of Democratic Super Majority.
Filed under Congress, Politics by elfish on January 31, 2012 at 3:25 am20 comments

One of the standard Republican talking points is that the Democrats had afilibuster-proof, super majority for two years between 2008 and 2010. This talking point is usually trotted out when liberals complain that the Republicans filibustered virtually every piece of legislation proposed by Obama or the Democrats during Obama’s presidency. The implication is that Democrats had ample opportunity to pass legislation and that the reason they didn’t pass more legislation doesn’t have anything to do with the Republicans.

It is also used to counter any argument that Republican legislation, (passed during the six years of total Republican control,) has anything to do with today’s problems. They claim that the Democrats had a super majority for two years and passed all kinds of legislation, (over Republican objection and filibuster,) that completely undid all Republican policies and legislation, and this absolves them from today’s problems.

The Truth is that the Democrats only had a filibuster-proof majority for 60 working days during that period, insufficient time to undo even a small portion of the legislation passed during six years of Republican control. Here are the details:

To define terms, a Filibuster-Proof Majority or Super Majority is the number of votes required to overcome a filibuster in the Senate. According to current Senate rules, 60 votes are required to overcome a filibuster.

Here is a time-line of the events after the 2008 election:

1. BALANCE BEFORE THE ELECTION. In 2007 – 2008 the balance in the Senate was 51-49 in favor of the Democrats. On top of that, there was a Republican president who would likely veto any legislation the Republicans didn’t like. Not exactly a super majority.

2. BIG GAIN IN 2008, BUT STILL NO SUPER MAJORITY. Coming out the 2008 election, the Democrats made big gains, but they didn’t immediately get a Super Majority. The Minnesota Senate race required a recount and was not undecided for more than six months. During that time, Norm Coleman was still sitting in the Senate and the Balance 59-41, still not a Super Majority.

3. KENNEDY GRAVELY ILL. Teddy Kennedy casthis last vote in April and left Washington for good around the first of May. Technically he could come back to Washington vote on a pressing issue, but in actual fact, he never returned, even to vote on the Sotomayor confirmation. That left the balance in the Senate 58-41,two votes away from a super majority.

4. STILL NO SUPER MAJORITY. In July, Al Frankin was finally declared the winner and was sworn in on July 7th, 2009, so the Democrats finally had a Super Majority of 60-40 six and one-half months into the year. However, by this point, Kennedy was unable to return to Washington even to participate in the Health Care debate, so it was only a technical super majority because Kennedy could no longer vote and the Senate does not allow proxies. Now the actual actual balance of voting members was 59-40 not enough to overcome a Republican filibuster.

5. SENATE IS IN RECESS. Even if Kennedy were able to vote, the Senate went into summer recess three weeks later, from August 7th to September 8th.

6. KENNEDY DIES. Six weeks later, on Aug 26, 2009 Teddy Kennedy died, putting the balance at 59-40. Now the Democrats don’t even have technical super majority.

7. FINALLY, A SUPER MAJORITY! Kennedy’s replacement was sworn in on September 25, 2009, finally making the majority 60-40, just enough for a super majority.

8. SENATE ADJOURNS. However the Senate adjourned for the year on October 9th, only providing 11 working days of super majority, from September 25th to October 9th.

9. SPECIAL SESSIONS. During October, November and December, the Senate had several special sessions to deal with final passage of ACA and Budget appropriations.

October = 13th – 15th, 20th – 22nd, 27th, 29th = 8 days
November = 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th 16th, 17th, 19th, 21st = 8 days
December = 1st, 3rd - 8th, 10th – 13th, 15th – 18th, 19th, 21st – 24th = 20 days

Total Special Session Days = 36.

8. SCOTT BROWN ELECTED. Scott Brown was elected on January 19th 2010. The Senate was in session for 10 days in January, but Scott Brown wasn’t sworn into office on February 4th, so the Democrats only had 13 days of super majority in 2010.
Summary:

Regular Session: 11 working days
Special Session: 36 working days

 

[francoHFW]

Now would be a really good time for Trump to produce the replacement he said he had. Every increase in health care costs is on him now and the fools who believed him. Trump lied and now his supporters who were stupid enough to believe him all have to pay serious cash for that mistake.

You cannot ask for better poetic justice than that.

It was the little black BOY that put Obamacare in place. Without that travesty being started, nothing would have to be done. However, if anyone is to blame, it's McCain. I guess when he couldn't even beat a black guy for President, he had to do something to save face.

Nonbrainwashed people realized the old corrupt GOP/Big Health/17%+ of GDP/ER care/bankruptcy/scam, cutoffs was killing people and prosperity, and something had to be done. This ACA is the supposed GOP plan (of course just a canard- they love that Big Health/AMA money too much...) and will work when the bought off GOP stops sabotaging it and allows some tinkering- which will go on forever just as it does everywhere else...

Sorry dupe, you're an idiot. It IS working, soon you'll have your Single Payer.

Single payer will never pass. We finally got lucky and got this thru. It'll work. It need to be fully implemented and time for competition and more tinkering. It'll end up with insurers being basically non-profits. Going back to no regulation, ER care, 750k bankruptcies and 45k deaths a year, scams, cutoffs, etc, is just plain nuts.

No mandate is fine- Obama didn't want that.

Of course it will, you're still pretending that there are differences between Dems and Repubs. That actually shows your lack of any real education. What's nuts is how you still spew all of those Obambi talking points from 2012.

I have a masters in History, you have a masters in GOP BS propaganda...

 

[francoHFW]

WTH is wrong with you? Enjoy the giant tax cut for the rich. Oh, richer than you...and GOP dereg bubble/bust......

Why shouldn't those that have been footing the bill get a cut and that applies to everyone that foots the bill. The 50% in this country that pay zero income tax have been freeloading long enough. It's high time they pay their fair share and quit expecting others to pay more into something to which they pay nothing.

Do you know what a family of four has to have as a family income before paying a dime in income taxes based solely on the makeup of the family? I can tell you but I want you to guess.

They already pay plenty, dupe. Fed income taxes are NOT the only kind of taxes, dupe.
The one tax graph you really need to know

By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

Wonkbook newsletter

Your daily policy cheat sheet from Wonkblog.



But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

That's really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income -- which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.

When politicians try to convince you that half of Americans aren't really paying taxes, it's usually because the real data undermines their preferred policies. For instance, you wouldn't look at these numbers and think tax cuts for the rich need to be a huge priority. And that's one reason people who want more tax cuts for the rich don't like to show you these numbers.

That's the one you used several months ago claiming everyone paid between 20 - 30%. When I showed you it was wrong, you still didn't admit your mistake. Now you change your story. Typical NL.

You showed me BS. I said if you count all taxes and fees, everyone pays between 20-30%. Check the ridiculous fees we have now as as states and localities try to make ends meet- and you'll see I'm right... Get over your brainwashed/racist obsession with the poor. The megarich don't pay enough and the middle class and the country have been slowly ruined the last 35 years.

Months ago you said taxes. When I pointed out the fault in your chart and your claim, that's when you mentioned fees.

Get over your love for those that contribute nothing to society. Next time you need something, see how much you can get from those freeloaders.

I always said taxes and fees, or tried to. At any rate, the bottom 20% can be ignored,they're such a mess thanks to Reaganism. The bottom 20% used to be able to rise. No more. Great job, dupes.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- The figures the dupes go with are ALWAYS what their scumbag crony insurers ASK for, NOT what they get. DUHHHHHH...