75th Anniversary

[the other mike]

No it didn't .
That's an excuse used by you pro-nukers.

Its a fact

the invasion of japan would have killed as many japanese as the bomb did

and hundreds of thousands more Americans would have died

We had already bombed the shit out of them with conventional weapons.
There was no reason to invade.

 

[gipper]

No it didn't .
That's an excuse used by you pro-nukers.

Its a fact

the invasion of japan would have killed as many japanese as the bomb did

and hundreds of thousands more Americans would have died

We had already bombed the shit out of them with conventional weapons.
There was no reason to invade.

Imperialists will never understand.

 

[Unkotare]

...
Right up till the bitter end the japanese military leaders did not understand that total surrender means just that

there could be no peace feelers leading to a negotiated settlement

...

You are uninformed on the topic, and you are unwilling to question the comfortable narrative you have been fed since the last time you ever studied history, which was likely middle school.

 

[Mac-7]

We had already bombed the shit out of them with conventional weapons.
There was no reason to invade.

They were not realy to accept unconditional surrender till after we used atomic bombs

 

[Mac-7]

...
Right up till the bitter end the japanese military leaders did not understand that total surrender means just that

there could be no peace feelers leading to a negotiated settlement

...

You are uninformed on the topic, and you are unwilling to question the comfortable narrative you have been fed since the last time you ever studied history, which was likely middle school.

Jus5 your accusing me of being uninformed does not make it so

you have been fed a bunch of bullshit by the lying lib revisionist historians

 

[the other mike]

They were not realy to accept unconditional surrender till after we used atomic bombs

All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.

 

[Mac-7]

All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.

And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?

Or was it a marxist revisionist historian?

 

[the other mike]

And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?

Or was it a marxist revisionist historian?

Maybe you should further your education a little before saying any more. Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip.....

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?

www.thenation.com

 

[Unkotare]

...
Right up till the bitter end the japanese military leaders did not understand that total surrender means just that

there could be no peace feelers leading to a negotiated settlement

...

You are uninformed on the topic, and you are unwilling to question the comfortable narrative you have been fed since the last time you ever studied history, which was likely middle school.

Jus5 your accusing me of being uninformed does not make it so
...

Your uninformed comments demonstrate that it is so.

 

[Unkotare]

All my life hearing this same mantra. I guess you really believe it.

And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?

...

How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?

 

[Mushroom]

Like Prince Konoye? How about Naotake Sato?

Ahhh, Prince Konoye. The one who was opposed to the war, and over this removed from power. Who was refused permission to speak to the Emperor for over 3 years, until finally in February 1945. Where he insisted that the Emperor end the war as quickly as possible. At which time he was angrily refused, and banished from the court.

Him? Along with Yamamoto he was one of the few that understood they had no chance if they fought the US. And his opposition saw him banished from court and having no power at all. However, he also refused to work with the Occupation forces, and then killed himself when he was threatened with being charged with war crimes unless he assisted.

No, he never made an offer of a surrender prior to the dropping of the bombs. But I would love to see evidence that gave him the authority to do so, and when and how he tried to do it.

And Naotake Sato? He was the one that was trying to negotiate the Soviets assist in an armistice. And no, an armistice is not a surrender, and Stalin knew that such proposals would have been rejected so he never even bothered to send them to the Allies. He even forwarded his own belief that he did not believe the Soviets would ever help them, and that they should try to end the war as quickly as possible.

The week before the first bomb. He is the one that was called into the Kremlin by Foreign Minister Molotov and presented with the Soviet Declaration of War.

OK, once again interesting choice. What proof do you have that he had that kind of power and authority? I would love to hear it, not just the name thrown around with nothing else.

Kuri Tajamo! Who is he? No idea, just a name I saw in a list of Japanese soldiers killed in Manchuria. But who knows, maybe he could have ended the war!

No, the only 7 who could have done that were all in Tokyo. They and nobody else had that power. No more than General Lee had the power to end the Civil War. Which contrary to popular belief, he did not. He simply surrendered his army, and because his was the last force between the Union and Richmond. And knowing it was now defenseless the Confederate government collapsed.

 

[Mushroom]

How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?

Fine. Show us a "Primary source" where a representative from Japan was given the authority to present to the Allied Powers terms that followed the Potsdam Declaration, or have otherwise been acceptable.

And no, not that silly Armistice call that they had been trying to shop around since 1943. The Swiss, Sweden, and Soviets all refused to even forward that nonsense, knowing it would not even be considered.

YOu are the one insisting there were offers, so you present your primary source. ANd not just an opinion, the actual source.

 

[Mac-7]

And then one day a little birdie told you the truth huh?

Or was it a marxist revisionist historian?

Maybe you should further your education a little before saying any more. Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip.....

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?

www.thenation.com

I cant find this quote anywhere outside of The Nation artcle:

Even the famous hawk Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, the head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”

 

[Mac-7]

How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?

I have studied history and in spite of a handful of opinionated generals who allegedly opposed using atomic weapons most knowledgable military planners believed that an invasion of japan would cause massive American casualities

 

[Unkotare]

A lot of "yeah but, yeah but" to defend a preconceived conclusion. Easier, I guess, than learning about the Jushin and all the complex relationships within the government that contributed to the overtures to surrender of which more than a few American military and political leaders were well aware.

Would these overtures have amounted to an earlier peace if they had been seriously pursued? Maybe, maybe not. We will never know because fdr had no interest in peace. He wanted to kill a very large number of civilians and he didn't care how many more American servicemen died to get to that point. His lapdog truman was only too happy to carry out the dead racist's final bloody wish. Military leaders knew the enemy was all but defeated and that the bombs were not material to Japan's inevitable surrender.

 

[Unkotare]

How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?

Fine. Show us a "Primary source" where a representative from Japan was given the authority to present to the Allied Powers terms that followed the Potsdam Declaration, or have otherwise been acceptable.

And no, not that silly Armistice call that they had been trying to shop around since 1943. The Swiss, Sweden, and Soviets all refused to even forward that nonsense, knowing it would not even be considered.

YOu are the one insisting there were offers, so you present your primary source. ANd not just an opinion, the actual source.

There are hundreds and hundreds of pages on this topic on many threads containing many links to many sources. It's time for you to get off your ass and at least look at what has already been posted over and over. Beyond that, there are many sources that I doubt you could read anyway.

Since it is very likely that you are too lazy to do any of the above, why not focus on what is already in agreement? We know that MacArthur sent fdr a 40-page communique about peace overtures before he left for Yalta, and that fdr summarily dismissed it. Do you think fdr would have ever considered any earlier conclusion to the war?

 

[Unkotare]

...most knowledgable [sic] military planners believed that an invasion of japan would cause massive American casualities [sic]

Back to this again? Invasion was not the only other option to atomic bombing (for the 10000th time).

 

[gipper]

How about studying primary sources from the time period in question? You know, actually studying history instead of clinging to a comfortable story from your childhood like a security blanket for your conscience?

Fine. Show us a "Primary source" where a representative from Japan was given the authority to present to the Allied Powers terms that followed the Potsdam Declaration, or have otherwise been acceptable.

And no, not that silly Armistice call that they had been trying to shop around since 1943. The Swiss, Sweden, and Soviets all refused to even forward that nonsense, knowing it would not even be considered.

YOu are the one insisting there were offers, so you present your primary source. ANd not just an opinion, the actual source.

There are hundreds and hundreds of pages on this topic on many threads containing many links to many sources. It's time for you to get off your ass and at least look at what has already been posted over and over. Beyond that, there are many sources that I doubt you could read anyway.

Since it is very likely that you are too lazy to do any of the above, why not focus on what is already in agreement? We know that MacArthur sent fdr a 40-page communique about peace overtures before he left for Yalta, and that fdr summarily dismissed it. Do you think fdr would have ever considered any earlier conclusion to the war?

It’s obvious to me the Americans who believe the establishment story and refuse to research the history or accept a different version, can’t be changed. This is hard to understand for logical thinking people.

It’s doubly hard for those of us who know the history of lies and propaganda our government is responsible for.

 

[Mac-7]

Back to this again? Invasion was not the only other option to atomic bombing (for the 10000th time).

Yeah sure

And I told you the japanese were not serious about accepting total surrender with American occupation

 

[Mac-7]

This is hard to understand for logical thinking people.

Revisionist history was invented by the soviets during the Cold War

thats why I keep asking Unkotare to give us a brief synopsis of US history from 1945-1955

it will tell us how much marxist bs he has swallowed