75% of African American boys in California fail to meet state reading levels.

[sakinago]

Cite my post where I make that claim.

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Cite my post where I make that claim.

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Common Core requires one to think, which is why the parents hate it - they don't know how to do their kids' homework.

common core.

2+2= red

Only 75%, give our Progressive educational system another generation and they'll get that number up over 90%. Must feed the base more uneducated, governmentdependent voters

Why don't you keep your ignorance in check?

Tell me a math standard in Common Core for Geometry with which you disagree. Come on Frank! Man up and tell me everything I have been doing wrong this past year.

BTW, 2 + 2 = red is curriculum, not a standard.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Cite my post where I make that claim.

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

What do you think I've been saying throughout this entire thread? Seriously, man up and admit that you were wrong...because right now you're agreeing with everything that I've been saying.

PS: I've taught Macbeth and Othello and yes I taught each text differently. The destination is the same, but I'd use different lessons to reach the goal (except for my intro to Shakespeare lesson-that would be identical). It's just like I said earlier if you were racing from New York to Boston some might take the train (Othello), others might take a flight (Macbeth).

You've spent this entire thread arguing with myself and other educators...and now you're still arguing with us, while agreeing upon all of our points?

I've been in the exact same position this entire thread. Never changed positions. You two were the ones to say they're standards not curriculum and expect me not to call BS on that claim, or inference or whatever you want to call it. Well call it an inference since by saying "it's standards, not curriculum," the point of that statement is that one does not, or has minimal effect of the other. And I did so by asking how does one evaluate whether or not standards are met, in order to get to this point, to say well you have to test, and in your curriculum you make sure your kids can pass that test. Not because I didn't know what standards are as you claimed.

OK.

Give me a standard from Common Core for Geometry.

Then give me a learning objective to teach that standard.

Finally, give me an example of how you would assess that standard.

This is what teachers do. Only the standard is supplied.

Let's see how you do. Make it as simple as needed.

Then, after doing that maybe you can see the relationship.

I say there is exactly 0% chance you will do this, simply because you don't know how!

Maybe you should get a teaching certificate so you can show us where we are screwing up!

 

[danielpalos]

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

 

[sakinago]

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

 

[sakinago]

2 post previous to this, you claimed I didn't know what standards were, then the post after you implied the same by saying it's the stupidest question ever.

So can I get you to confirm that you believe standards DO NOT effect curriculum?

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

What do you think I've been saying throughout this entire thread? Seriously, man up and admit that you were wrong...because right now you're agreeing with everything that I've been saying.

PS: I've taught Macbeth and Othello and yes I taught each text differently. The destination is the same, but I'd use different lessons to reach the goal (except for my intro to Shakespeare lesson-that would be identical). It's just like I said earlier if you were racing from New York to Boston some might take the train (Othello), others might take a flight (Macbeth).

You've spent this entire thread arguing with myself and other educators...and now you're still arguing with us, while agreeing upon all of our points?

I've been in the exact same position this entire thread. Never changed positions. You two were the ones to say they're standards not curriculum and expect me not to call BS on that claim, or inference or whatever you want to call it. Well call it an inference since by saying "it's standards, not curriculum," the point of that statement is that one does not, or has minimal effect of the other. And I did so by asking how does one evaluate whether or not standards are met, in order to get to this point, to say well you have to test, and in your curriculum you make sure your kids can pass that test. Not because I didn't know what standards are as you claimed.

OK.

Give me a standard from Common Core for Geometry.

Then give me a learning objective to teach that standard.

Finally, give me an example of how you would assess that standard.

This is what teachers do. Only the standard is supplied.

Let's see how you do. Make it as simple as needed.

Then, after doing that maybe you can see the relationship.

I say there is exactly 0% chance you will do this, simply because you don't know how!

Maybe you should get a teaching certificate so you can show us where we are screwing up!

I doubt I would need one, since parents without a college education homeschooling their kids still have their kids score in the 84 percentile. And you're still missing the point (that's been reiterated over and over, if you need, look back at the OP, maybe that'll give you a hint) What you just did is called an appeal to ignorance. Problem is, it' doesn't really serve your point, at all.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

 

[sakinago]

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No specific curriculum is required for Common Core. As long as the curriculum meets the standards, everything is great!

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

What do you think I've been saying throughout this entire thread? Seriously, man up and admit that you were wrong...because right now you're agreeing with everything that I've been saying.

PS: I've taught Macbeth and Othello and yes I taught each text differently. The destination is the same, but I'd use different lessons to reach the goal (except for my intro to Shakespeare lesson-that would be identical). It's just like I said earlier if you were racing from New York to Boston some might take the train (Othello), others might take a flight (Macbeth).

You've spent this entire thread arguing with myself and other educators...and now you're still arguing with us, while agreeing upon all of our points?

I've been in the exact same position this entire thread. Never changed positions. You two were the ones to say they're standards not curriculum and expect me not to call BS on that claim, or inference or whatever you want to call it. Well call it an inference since by saying "it's standards, not curriculum," the point of that statement is that one does not, or has minimal effect of the other. And I did so by asking how does one evaluate whether or not standards are met, in order to get to this point, to say well you have to test, and in your curriculum you make sure your kids can pass that test. Not because I didn't know what standards are as you claimed.

OK.

Give me a standard from Common Core for Geometry.

Then give me a learning objective to teach that standard.

Finally, give me an example of how you would assess that standard.

This is what teachers do. Only the standard is supplied.

Let's see how you do. Make it as simple as needed.

Then, after doing that maybe you can see the relationship.

I say there is exactly 0% chance you will do this, simply because you don't know how!

Maybe you should get a teaching certificate so you can show us where we are screwing up!

I doubt I would need one, since parents without a college education homeschooling their kids still have their kids score in the 84 percentile. And you're still missing the point (that's been reiterated over and over, if you need, look back at the OP, maybe that'll give you a hint) What you just did is called an appeal to ignorance. Problem is, it' doesn't really serve your point, at all.

Your linked site is BOGUS!

That data is designed to encourage you to homeschool and sign up for their services. It is a money-making scam.

Just ask yourself, what about all of those home schools students who did NOT take any of those tests? Think they voluntarily submitted their scores if they performed miserably on them?

It is called "self-selection bias" and it is the reason internet polls are always bogus. If I don't want to look bad, I don't participate.

Do you think that if your kid turns out to have a learning disability or is emotionally disturbed that you are going to report his test scores? Ha!

If I am making an appeal to ignorance it is because that is all you have going for you.

Man up and prove me wrong by quoting a standard, writing out the learning objective and then an assessment question. If you can't do that, you cannot possible homeschool because that is what is required. If you are in a state that requires your plan of instruction to be supervised and you can't do this, you cannot homeschool!

Then maybe HSLDA can swindle more money from you to defend your case, but they will lose, so your kids will be back in public school and your wallet will be much lighter.

 

[sakinago]

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

^^^ this is what I'm talking about MGH. Standards drive curriculum. Curriculums may vary, but the "how" from district to district is going to be very similar. Is how macbeth is taught vs how othelo is taught going to be that different if kids still have to meet certain standards on a test, on say criticical reading. If your kids have to reach a certain standard of "critical reading" then you are going to teach them to meet those standards, on what those standards are looking for, their benchmarks, doesn't matter much whether it's othelo or Macbeth, you are going to be teaching to that test.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standa

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

 

[sakinago]

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standa

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?

 

[sakinago]

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standards don't matter unless you are not teaching them.

You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops.

So, do you now admit that the fact that 75% of African-American boys in California not meeting the state reading levels has absolutely nothing to do with the standards?

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

You sure have a funny way of agreeing with something with which you have spent an entire thread disagreeing.

Standa

You're just a bad listener. This is what I've been saying. And you obviously missed the point here if you think I'm disagreeing with myself. And you just did the exact thing you accused me of doing
"You teach the material required by the standards and then test them on what they learned. That is called "teaching to the test" by most nincompoops."
What happened to standards not effecting curriculum?

How long will a particular curriculum last if it is not meeting the standards essentially set by the Fed Govt? It won't. If curriculum is say a horse, and standards are the reigns and whoever sets standards is the rider. Well it doesn't matter much if you're on a thouroughbred or an appoloosa, if it's the same rider at the reigns the horse is going to do the same thing, go to the same place. If your on an appoloosa, it's a little slower, but goes to the same place.

How did you come to the conclusion that I'd say that? No it's a symptom of allowing the state to have total control of education of your children. Which is what comes out of these standards, that according to you has nothing to do with curriculum. This is one of the main problems in education, another is being passive in kids education because, well the government and education majors just know better than me. Even though homeschool kids are scoring in the 90th percentile in almost every subject, despite having parents who have no formal education in education. Why is that? Is it BC they get so much more attention being in a much smaller "classroom"? That could be it, but wait, they also excel in college where classes sizes can get into the 100s, wouldn't there be some sort of shock to the system, not having 100% of your teachers attention in your learning? Or is it because with most homeschoolers, there is A LOT of self teaching involved, in other words they learn how to learn vs what to learn. That's the key.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

How convenient...no data to suggest the contrary. I wonder why that is. How are these kids scoring in the 84th percentile without college educated educators? And scoring higher GPAs in average in college, where they aren't prepared for large classes, and not having mommy around. Maybe...learning how to learn is more important than what to learn. It's a crazy thought I know.

And BTW, my horse analogy worked just fine.

And you're here claiming...WITH ZERO DATA, that homeschoolers don't perform better. Well somebody warn Cornell and Dartmouth, and the other ivy leagues to not waste their time going after these kids.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Some people will never understand, or are too stubborn to understand, that when they say "teaching to the test" what they really mean is teaching students the skills that are required in order to pass tests. You can't win with some people-their pride is too strong.

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

The standards are NOT being set by the federal government. The federal government had nothing to do with those standards being written at all! The remainder of that paragraph is based on a falsehood you have embraced. Your horse analogy makes no sense.

As to your home schooling red herring, what is the source of that data? Whatever it is, it is most certainly from a biased source and an outright lie.

Home schoolers often do not fare well in college classes simply because they do not know how to handle the large classes. It is not the teacher's attention that matters, if the student is not paying attention to the instruction.

If everyone can learn so well, why are 75% of African American boys in California not meeting the reading standard. If homeschool kids can do it by teaching themselves, why can't they?

You are basing lie after lie on ignorance.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?

From your link:

"But all SAT and ACT takers are self-selecting regardless of how they were schooled."

Bald-faced lie. In many states, public schools students are required to take these tests, so if they decide they don't want to go to college, they simply "Christmas-tree" the answer sheet and make public school student averages plummet!

HSLDA Study

There is your biased source again!

Your links are trash!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Look, skinago,

It is time to face facts. You are way out of your league and dumber than a post on this topic. I hope you are a good nurse because you need to stick with it. Law school will destroy you if you cannot spot biased sources and fraudulent statistics like you have been citing. It will chew you up and spit you out in your first semester of class.

Leave education to the educators because quite frankly, you suck!

 

[sakinago]

In my horse analogy, what do you think I'd say is my biggest problem with that situation? Let's see how well you pay attention.

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

Well first off from the horses mouth

Benchmarking for Success: Ensuring U.S. Students Receive a World-class Education

So sure federal government didn't "design" common core. They sure as hell pressed it upon states dangling federal funding during economic crisis. And how many states use the common core/ESSA standards?

And way to start out with an ad hominem before even knowing the actual source. Couple that with the fact you tried to call homeschooling and red herring, when it clearly applies to the conversation and OP, since they are one of the few students outside of common core/ESSA standards. Seriously? "I don't know what the source is but it's obviously an outright lie." I wasn't even aware the success of homeschooling was in question, kind of thought it was common knowledge at this point. But if you insist

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

And you question my source for my claims, without posting a source for your claim that they do poor in college? You're convincing me more and more homeschooling is the way to go with my kids. Where is your source for your claims? It's a fact that home school kids have higher GPA's, more likely to attend college, more likely to graduate college, and more likely to be in honor programs...and are also actively sought out by high profile colleges, for all the reasons above. I can cite if you'd like. I really shouldn't have to since reason dictates that if they're doing that much better than public school kids, that's probably going to carry over in college.

And you're last point, I don't think you even know what side you're on... they certainly could, if they weren't relying so much on the state doing the all the teaching...I don't know how many times I have to say that.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?

From your link:

"But all SAT and ACT takers are self-selecting regardless of how they were schooled."

Bald-faced lie. In many states, public schools students are required to take these tests, so if they decide they don't want to go to college, they simply "Christmas-tree" the answer sheet and make public school student averages plummet!

HSLDA Study

There is your biased source again!

Your links are trash!

Only 16 states require the ACT only. That's still a lot of states left over. And the SAT as far as I know is self selected, and the most widely used by colleges.

And even then the college GPAs?

Not sure why I'm still having this conversation.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Maybe they need to give the blacks the test in Jive

gang graffiti?

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Why do first worlders have a problem with education, in the first world? What can you not learn, "on YouTube"?

I don't know, honestly I use YouTube A LOT. I pretty much installed a French drain around the house thanks to YouTube, as well as refinished the basement and added a new room and bathroom. Almost anything is in our grasp. But there is something about mellenials (age wise I am one) I guess a lack of independence that makes them slow learners and afraid to try new things. We've had to fire a few nurses in the past couple years for that reason, and it's a trend I nor any of the other staff has seen until receantly.

OK. I thought you were ignorant, but now I know you are just stone-cold stupid.

What is the source of your link? Think that organization is just a little bit biased? It is well known for cherry picking data to make homeschooling look appealing so they can increase their membership and collect more money! It's a scam!

Higher GPAs? Who grades the school work? No bias there!

Please! You are losing what little self-respect you had to start with.

Your pathetic amateurish arguments are boring as hell!

What is your education level? Dropout? GED? Anyone with a higher level could put up a better argument than yours.

Which link? The study is there, if you have information otherwise by all means post it.

And it's college GPAs that are higher. Why would I refer to high school GPAs? Seriously ask yourself that. Something you should've asked before you said that outloud. Even if I was, for whatever crazy reason, talking about high school students, the study was looking at standardized test scores, such as the SAT, ACT, etc.

Education is bachelors in nursing, I'm moving on to law school, probably do night school and continue working.

Again by ALL MEANS be my guest, post your conflicting data, or just keep using ad hominem attacks. Up to you, it's a free country.

You need to learn to read your own links. Those test scores are NOT the SAT and ACT.

From YOUR link:
"the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test "

I swear you are as sharp as a beach ball!

If you cannot distinguish a conflict of interest in the HSLDA promoting home schooling and then cooking up data to support it, you are one confused individual.

Again, from YOUR link:

"The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association"

I cannot post conflicting data because there is no conflicting data.

Home school students are not required to take standardized tests like normal public school students and they are not required to take the SAT or ACT like many public school students.

Did you look up self-selection bias yet?

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?

From your link:

"But all SAT and ACT takers are self-selecting regardless of how they were schooled."

Bald-faced lie. In many states, public schools students are required to take these tests, so if they decide they don't want to go to college, they simply "Christmas-tree" the answer sheet and make public school student averages plummet!

HSLDA Study

There is your biased source again!

Your links are trash!

Only 16 states require the ACT only. That's still a lot of states left over. And the SAT as far as I know is self selected, and the most widely used by colleges.

And even then the college GPAs?

Not sure why I'm still having this conversation.

Seems like you are learning.

 

[sakinago]

Look, skinago,

It is time to face facts. You are way out of your league and dumber than a post on this topic. I hope you are a good nurse because you need to stick with it. Law school will destroy you if you cannot spot biased sources and fraudulent statistics like you have been citing. It will chew you up and spit you out in your first semester of class.

Leave education to the educators because quite frankly, you suck!

Got a 165 on LSAT without taking a class for it, and a month of on and off study. I think I'll be just fine. Most full time students take an entire class dedicated to this test, I work at least 50 hours a week.