50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Tank]

The question you should be asking is are whites willing to stop being so defensive about what the root cause is? Identifying the problem is half the battle. If that is not addressed there will continue to be an uneasy truce.

The problem is the low IQ's of blacks, and you're proof of that.

LOL, another clown. Hey you PUTZ, what's your IQ? Judging from your post, you have NO ROOM to talk about "the Blacks" and their "IQ's", what's your excuse?

I don't make any excuses, thats is what blacks do.

 

[Asclepias]

You are such a racist idiot. The problem is people who think and talk and act like you do. If we could rid society of racists such as yourself the rest of us could ignore skin color.

You are an ignorant imbecile.

Now you are being dishonest. You know I'm not a racist. I wouldnt have a biracial daughter if that were true. You just dont like my point of view. I wonder if you can accurately summarize what I am saying and find anything wrong with it?

You can't see the forest for the trees. You have conquered the white race and now have a child that can put her 200 year ancestry behind her. Good job. You are now all knowing and all seeing.

You are racist, you hate white people for what their ancestors did 200 years ago, like I had any control over the ancestors of my ancestors. Wait, some of my ancestors were slaves, they got out, they moved forward.............they quit living in the past.

I have faith your daughter will see the future and not dwell on the past.

I conquered the white race?!! Somebody forgot to tell me about it. I only hate people that have/had anything to do with slavery or racism. Wouldnt I have to hate my daughter if I was a racist? You dont have to have faith she will see the future because she already does. She thanks me all the time for the knowledge I have instilled in her. She has already run into the racist elements of society. She shakes that stuff of like a champ and keeps on moving.

 

[Asclepias]

You are such a racist idiot. The problem is people who think and talk and act like you do. If we could rid society of racists such as yourself the rest of us could ignore skin color.

You are an ignorant imbecile.

Now you are being dishonest. You know I'm not a racist. I wouldnt have a biracial daughter if that were true. You just dont like my point of view. I wonder if you can accurately summarize what I am saying and find anything wrong with it?

Your point of view and what rolls off your tongue is a ridiculous level of idiotic racial bias and racist sentiment- better suited for those born before 1950- Grow the **** up and get the huge boulder off your shoulder...

Whats idiotic about my point of view? I get you dont agree with it but can you explain yourself or is it you just dont know what else to say?

 

[Tank]

She has already run into the racist elements of society. She shakes that stuff of like a champ and keeps on moving.

To bad her mom can't

 

[Oldstyle]

The "message" that has been given to several generations of urban blacks is that they are victims and should be compensated by society because they are victims. That's the message that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton preach repeatedly. The strength of America has always been the self reliance of our people. What we're witnessing now in this country is part of the population that's bought into the notion that bettering yourself through education and hard work is for suckers and chumps. If you're REALLY smart you can hang out and get paid for doing nothing.

I agree that some black people whether urban, suburban, and rural, have been given that message in one way or another. Martin Luther King Jr. said the same things, if one has a more than superficial knowledge of his works. As far as Jackson and Sharpton; I'm not either one of those guys, they have a right to preach whatever they preach. With some exceptions, they pretty much are advocating what MLK advocated.

I'm glad that it's only part of the population, a MINORITY of the population should define the MAJORITY of the population. I think that people who define the MAJORITY by the MINORITY, have a negative ulterior motive for doing so, it stinks. The people who fall into that trap are a minority of all people. I think that people who assume that "the Blacks" aren't trying to do anything to uplift themselves as INDIVIDUALS and people, are either ignorant or have some bias.

100 Black Men of America, Inc.
The MENTOR Program - National Forum for Black Public Administrators
Mentorship Is Earned, Not Owed - Black Enterprise
E-mentoring program aims to reduce dropout rate among Black males | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

There are plenty more of POSITIVE people and organizations, doing PLENTY of positive things.

Its pretty evident by now that an honest discussion is not what some whites on this board want. They want to absolve their ancestors while at the same time validating themselves for having a racist stance on these issues. Whats funny is that they seem to be angry that Black people aren't eager to hear their solutions due to the way they approach the situation. Now because of your post they will either attack the validity or effectiveness of the organizations in your post or disappear from this thread for one trumped up reason or another.

Absolve my ancestor of WHAT? My great grandfather volunteered to be an officer of a black Union infantry regiment at a time when the Confederacy had promised to execute any white officer they captured that commanded black troops but you feel I need to absolve his actions to satisfy YOUR ridiculous beliefs about overt racism? God, but you are a pompous asshole!

You don't want an "honest" discussion. You're here to hold forth on YOUR beliefs...beliefs that are based on a culture of victimization. You have the audacity to accuse me of racism simply because I point out that the problems inherent with black urban youth have ZERO to do with how their slaves were treated two hundred years ago? You haven't proven a single assertion you've made in this string and the proof of that is now you're falling back on playing the "anyone who disagrees with me is a racist" card.

 

[Oldstyle]

The question you should be asking is are whites willing to stop being so defensive about what the root cause is? Identifying the problem is half the battle. If that is not addressed there will continue to be an uneasy truce.

The problem is the low IQ's of blacks, and you're proof of that.

Thats not what my Mensa Society membership card says.

You're a member of Mensa? Really? I hate to break this to you but you'd have a hard time holding your own in an entry level college history class. If this string was a paper that you'd handed in, it would have "You've made assertions which you have not backed up with facts!" written on it with a red marker.

 

[Oldstyle]

So you have "outrage" over the welfare system...but nowhere have I seen you voice that outrage. Instead you pontificate repeatedly about how we need to address the wrongs that were done to blacks two hundred years ago? I ask again...how does examining the "roots" of racism in this country alleviate the very real problems that we face in the black community? Does that in anyway change the prevailing attitudes among young urban blacks that education and hard work are for "suckers"? You're so concerned with history that you're totally ignoring what's happening to young blacks NOW.

The reason I pontificate. Is to explain the circumstances. You are too busy denying them to even comprehend what youre reading. You keep asking the same question in different ways. You are still going to get the same answer. There is a sequence of events that need to happen in order to discuss this honestly and openly between Whites and Blacks. First you need to clean your own house. Next you need to ask permission to pass judgement on mine. After that you need to accept what we know as the root cause of the issues. Lastly you need to stop assuming and attributing your own meaning to what I am saying. If you dont know I wont think less of you if you ask for clarification. As a matter of fact i will think more of person that comes in learning mode than know it all mode.

Let me see if I've got this straight...

You make the call that my "house" needs to be cleaned even though you know very little about me other than I don't buy your premise that the problems that urban black teens are having are because of overt racism left over from the slavery two hundred years ago?

Then you inform me that I need to get your "permission" to even pass judgement on your house? And that seems right to you? So it's OK for YOU to pass judgement on others but it's not allowed for them to return the favor? Wow, you've demonstrated EXACTLY where you're coming from!

 

[Oldstyle]

I think what we have here folks is one more liberal "genius" that has somehow come to the conclusion that THEY are more intelligent than everyone else and that therefore everyone else should shut up and listen to them!

Gotta love it...

 

[Unkotare]

[ If he was a "segregationist" or a "racist" wouldn't he be antagonistic towards me? Give it a break!

Illogical conclusion.

 

[Meathead]

The question you should be asking is are whites willing to stop being so defensive about what the root cause is? Identifying the problem is half the battle. If that is not addressed there will continue to be an uneasy truce.

The problem is the low IQ's of blacks, and you're proof of that.

Thats not what my Mensa Society membership card says.

Do the have a black Mensa society where the IQ requirement is adjusted to 85 for obvious reasons?

 

[Asclepias]

I agree that some black people whether urban, suburban, and rural, have been given that message in one way or another. Martin Luther King Jr. said the same things, if one has a more than superficial knowledge of his works. As far as Jackson and Sharpton; I'm not either one of those guys, they have a right to preach whatever they preach. With some exceptions, they pretty much are advocating what MLK advocated.

I'm glad that it's only part of the population, a MINORITY of the population should define the MAJORITY of the population. I think that people who define the MAJORITY by the MINORITY, have a negative ulterior motive for doing so, it stinks. The people who fall into that trap are a minority of all people. I think that people who assume that "the Blacks" aren't trying to do anything to uplift themselves as INDIVIDUALS and people, are either ignorant or have some bias.

100 Black Men of America, Inc.
The MENTOR Program - National Forum for Black Public Administrators
Mentorship Is Earned, Not Owed - Black Enterprise
E-mentoring program aims to reduce dropout rate among Black males | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

There are plenty more of POSITIVE people and organizations, doing PLENTY of positive things.

Its pretty evident by now that an honest discussion is not what some whites on this board want. They want to absolve their ancestors while at the same time validating themselves for having a racist stance on these issues. Whats funny is that they seem to be angry that Black people aren't eager to hear their solutions due to the way they approach the situation. Now because of your post they will either attack the validity or effectiveness of the organizations in your post or disappear from this thread for one trumped up reason or another.

Absolve my ancestor of WHAT? My great grandfather volunteered to be an officer of a black Union infantry regiment at a time when the Confederacy had promised to execute any white officer they captured that commanded black troops but you feel I need to absolve his actions to satisfy YOUR ridiculous beliefs about overt racism? God, but you are a pompous asshole!

You don't want an "honest" discussion. You're here to hold forth on YOUR beliefs...beliefs that are based on a culture of victimization. You have the audacity to accuse me of racism simply because I point out that the problems inherent with black urban youth have ZERO to do with how their slaves were treated two hundred years ago? You haven't proven a single assertion you've made in this string and the proof of that is now you're falling back on playing the "anyone who disagrees with me is a racist" card.

I respect your great grandfathers actions. Sounds like a good man. I wasnt talking to you specifically but I'm sure you had other ancestors who were not quite as honorable. My theory is that your very loud denial is rooted in a need to absolve your racist ancestors (assuming you had any) of wrong doing. Its only a theory because it defies logic that someone seeking understanding would flat out dismiss what someone else says is causing a problem to them. That to me implies you feel you have superior knowledge hence the charge of racist. How do you possibly think you are going to have a productive conversation if your first action is to deny my assertions are true instead of exploring them ?

 

[Asclepias]

You're a member of Mensa?

No. Just screwing with Tanks head.

 

[Asclepias]

So you have "outrage" over the welfare system...but nowhere have I seen you voice that outrage. Instead you pontificate repeatedly about how we need to address the wrongs that were done to blacks two hundred years ago? I ask again...how does examining the "roots" of racism in this country alleviate the very real problems that we face in the black community? Does that in anyway change the prevailing attitudes among young urban blacks that education and hard work are for "suckers"? You're so concerned with history that you're totally ignoring what's happening to young blacks NOW.

The reason I pontificate. Is to explain the circumstances. You are too busy denying them to even comprehend what youre reading. You keep asking the same question in different ways. You are still going to get the same answer. There is a sequence of events that need to happen in order to discuss this honestly and openly between Whites and Blacks. First you need to clean your own house. Next you need to ask permission to pass judgement on mine. After that you need to accept what we know as the root cause of the issues. Lastly you need to stop assuming and attributing your own meaning to what I am saying. If you dont know I wont think less of you if you ask for clarification. As a matter of fact i will think more of person that comes in learning mode than know it all mode.

Let me see if I've got this straight...

You make the call that my "house" needs to be cleaned even though you know very little about me other than I don't buy your premise that the problems that urban black teens are having are because of overt racism left over from the slavery two hundred years ago?

Then you inform me that I need to get your "permission" to even pass judgement on your house? And that seems right to you? So it's OK for YOU to pass judgement on others but it's not allowed for them to return the favor? Wow, you've demonstrated EXACTLY where you're coming from!

When I say your house I mean white society in general. You guys have to admit to the criminal stuff your race pulls. You are not even close to being innocent. You having the audacity to attempt to reprimand the Black community when you guys have your own issues stinks of racism. What we have here is 2 drug addicts and one is trying to tell the other he needs to get himself cleaned up. What makes you think the one is going to respect what the other has to say? Yes you do need permission to address someone about their issues. Is that a foreign concept to you? Have you forgotten your manners? Who told you it was ok to reprimand or suggest solutions to the Black community? I know I didnt. How much ruder can you be?

 

[Godboy]

The reason I pontificate. Is to explain the circumstances. You are too busy denying them to even comprehend what youre reading. You keep asking the same question in different ways. You are still going to get the same answer. There is a sequence of events that need to happen in order to discuss this honestly and openly between Whites and Blacks. First you need to clean your own house. Next you need to ask permission to pass judgement on mine. After that you need to accept what we know as the root cause of the issues. Lastly you need to stop assuming and attributing your own meaning to what I am saying. If you dont know I wont think less of you if you ask for clarification. As a matter of fact i will think more of person that comes in learning mode than know it all mode.

Let me see if I've got this straight...

You make the call that my "house" needs to be cleaned even though you know very little about me other than I don't buy your premise that the problems that urban black teens are having are because of overt racism left over from the slavery two hundred years ago?

Then you inform me that I need to get your "permission" to even pass judgement on your house? And that seems right to you? So it's OK for YOU to pass judgement on others but it's not allowed for them to return the favor? Wow, you've demonstrated EXACTLY where you're coming from!

When I say your house I mean white society in general. You guys have to admit to the criminal stuff your race pulls. You are not even close to being innocent. You having the audacity to attempt to reprimand the Black community when you guys have your own issues stinks of racism. What we have here is 2 drug addicts and one is trying to tell the other he needs to get himself cleaned up. What makes you think the one is going to respect what the other has to say? Yes you do need permission to address someone about their issues. Is that a foreign concept to you? Have you forgotten your manners? Who told you it was ok to reprimand or suggest solutions to the Black community? I know I didnt. How much ruder can you be?

What if we don't want to do any of that? What if we just sit back and let you guys destroy your own communities? We are doing just fine, so we don't need to do shit. You guys are the ones with the shitty culture, massive crime problems and fatherless households. What do you want white people to do about it? If you want to fix your problems, instead of hating ******, why don't you start emulating ******? Youd be shocked at how quickly your problems would go away with an injection of civility and responsible behavior.

 

[Mac1958]

What if we don't want to do any of that? What if we just sit back and let you guys destroy your own communities? We are doing just fine, so we don't need to do shit. You guys are the ones with the shitty culture, massive crime problems and fatherless households. What do you want white people to do about it? If you want to fix your problems, instead of hating ******, why don't you start emulating ******? Youd be shocked at how quickly your problems would go away with an injection of civility and responsible behavior.

Definitely rougher than I would put it, but I agree very much in principle.

Just remember that there are two very powerful forces at work here: Blacks are, by and large, conditioned from birth that there is little hope - conditioning works; those who DO "emulate ******" are either ignored or scorned in this context. Secondly, those in the black community who go this route are gleefully supported and encouraged by enablers at the highest levels.

This is a cultural issue, it begins on the day they're born, it's a part of them (or most of them). They can't just flip a switch and change, it can only be done if "leaders" in the black community force it to look in the mirror. My bet is that, if they did that, it would force the REAL white racists to look in the mirror as well. The other "side" of this issue sure as hell aren't innocent and have their own work to do.

But why would black "leaders" and enablers talk themselves out of a job? That's why it's not going to happen.

.

 

[Oldstyle]

Its pretty evident by now that an honest discussion is not what some whites on this board want. They want to absolve their ancestors while at the same time validating themselves for having a racist stance on these issues. Whats funny is that they seem to be angry that Black people aren't eager to hear their solutions due to the way they approach the situation. Now because of your post they will either attack the validity or effectiveness of the organizations in your post or disappear from this thread for one trumped up reason or another.

Absolve my ancestor of WHAT? My great grandfather volunteered to be an officer of a black Union infantry regiment at a time when the Confederacy had promised to execute any white officer they captured that commanded black troops but you feel I need to absolve his actions to satisfy YOUR ridiculous beliefs about overt racism? God, but you are a pompous asshole!

You don't want an "honest" discussion. You're here to hold forth on YOUR beliefs...beliefs that are based on a culture of victimization. You have the audacity to accuse me of racism simply because I point out that the problems inherent with black urban youth have ZERO to do with how their slaves were treated two hundred years ago? You haven't proven a single assertion you've made in this string and the proof of that is now you're falling back on playing the "anyone who disagrees with me is a racist" card.

I respect your great grandfathers actions. Sounds like a good man. I wasnt talking to you specifically but I'm sure you had other ancestors who were not quite as honorable. My theory is that your very loud denial is rooted in a need to absolve your racist ancestors (assuming you had any) of wrong doing. Its only a theory because it defies logic that someone seeking understanding would flat out dismiss what someone else says is causing a problem to them. That to me implies you feel you have superior knowledge hence the charge of racist. How do you possibly think you are going to have a productive conversation if your first action is to deny my assertions are true instead of exploring them ?

How do YOU think you are going to have a productive conversation with someone if your first action is to accuse their ancestors of being racists? Duh?

You're sure that I had other ancestors who were not quite as honorable? Really? You base that statement on what? Your extensive investigation of my family tree? Or are you basing that statement on your obvious issues with white people?

 

[Oldstyle]

The reason I pontificate. Is to explain the circumstances. You are too busy denying them to even comprehend what youre reading. You keep asking the same question in different ways. You are still going to get the same answer. There is a sequence of events that need to happen in order to discuss this honestly and openly between Whites and Blacks. First you need to clean your own house. Next you need to ask permission to pass judgement on mine. After that you need to accept what we know as the root cause of the issues. Lastly you need to stop assuming and attributing your own meaning to what I am saying. If you dont know I wont think less of you if you ask for clarification. As a matter of fact i will think more of person that comes in learning mode than know it all mode.

Let me see if I've got this straight...

You make the call that my "house" needs to be cleaned even though you know very little about me other than I don't buy your premise that the problems that urban black teens are having are because of overt racism left over from the slavery two hundred years ago?

Then you inform me that I need to get your "permission" to even pass judgement on your house? And that seems right to you? So it's OK for YOU to pass judgement on others but it's not allowed for them to return the favor? Wow, you've demonstrated EXACTLY where you're coming from!

When I say your house I mean white society in general. You guys have to admit to the criminal stuff your race pulls. You are not even close to being innocent. You having the audacity to attempt to reprimand the Black community when you guys have your own issues stinks of racism. What we have here is 2 drug addicts and one is trying to tell the other he needs to get himself cleaned up. What makes you think the one is going to respect what the other has to say? Yes you do need permission to address someone about their issues. Is that a foreign concept to you? Have you forgotten your manners? Who told you it was ok to reprimand or suggest solutions to the Black community? I know I didnt. How much ruder can you be?

You are one of the more clueless posters I've run into here in quite some time. Your analogy for this situation is 2 drug addicts? And you claim to be a member of Mensa? Seriously?

So once again you take the position that it's OK for you to reprimand or suggest solutions for the White community (that you accuse of criminal activity...another of your sweeping statements backed up with zip, nada and nothing but what else is new!) while you find it to be "rude" for someone else to suggest solutions to the Black community?

Think about what it is you're posting here!!!!!! How could anyone of intelligence EVER post that?

 

[Asclepias]

Let me see if I've got this straight...

You make the call that my "house" needs to be cleaned even though you know very little about me other than I don't buy your premise that the problems that urban black teens are having are because of overt racism left over from the slavery two hundred years ago?

Then you inform me that I need to get your "permission" to even pass judgement on your house? And that seems right to you? So it's OK for YOU to pass judgement on others but it's not allowed for them to return the favor? Wow, you've demonstrated EXACTLY where you're coming from!

When I say your house I mean white society in general. You guys have to admit to the criminal stuff your race pulls. You are not even close to being innocent. You having the audacity to attempt to reprimand the Black community when you guys have your own issues stinks of racism. What we have here is 2 drug addicts and one is trying to tell the other he needs to get himself cleaned up. What makes you think the one is going to respect what the other has to say? Yes you do need permission to address someone about their issues. Is that a foreign concept to you? Have you forgotten your manners? Who told you it was ok to reprimand or suggest solutions to the Black community? I know I didnt. How much ruder can you be?

What if we don't want to do any of that? What if we just sit back and let you guys destroy your own communities? We are doing just fine, so we don't need to do shit. You guys are the ones with the shitty culture, massive crime problems and fatherless households. What do you want white people to do about it? If you want to fix your problems, instead of hating ******, why don't you start emulating ******? Youd be shocked at how quickly your problems would go away with an injection of civility and responsible behavior.

If you belong to the contingent that doesn't want to do that then you can STFU and step off. it would reduce all the annoying chatter IMO. I'm cool either way. One thing I personally will not tolerate is someone trying to tell me what to do when they have issues themselves.

 

[Asclepias]

Definitely rougher than I would put it, but I agree very much in principle.

Just remember that there are two very powerful forces at work here: Blacks are, by and large, conditioned from birth that there is little hope - conditioning works; those who DO "emulate ******" are either ignored or scorned in this context. Secondly, those in the black community who go this route are gleefully supported and encouraged by enablers at the highest levels.

This is a cultural issue, it begins on the day they're born, it's a part of them (or most of them). They can't just flip a switch and change, it can only be done if "leaders" in the black community force it to look in the mirror. My bet is that, if they did that, it would force the REAL white racists to look in the mirror as well. The other "side" of this issue sure as hell aren't innocent and have their own work to do.

But why would black "leaders" and enablers talk themselves out of a job? That's why it's not going to happen.

.

You have got to be kidding me? I am not white and whites dont have a culture I desire to emulate as you say. Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, East Indians, ect have their own cultures. There is a reason for that. Where do you get the notion that white culture is something to emulate? it would be hilarious if it wasn't so pompous and sad. Thats one of the reasons I believe there are a lot of whites running around that have convinced themselves they are not racist but pop off with comments like this proving they are.

 

[Asclepias]

How do YOU think you are going to have a productive conversation with someone if your first action is to accuse their ancestors of being racists? Duh?

You're sure that I had other ancestors who were not quite as honorable? Really? You base that statement on what? Your extensive investigation of my family tree? Or are you basing that statement on your obvious issues with white people?

There are two things you might want to do. Take a look at the title of the thread and the first sentence in my post. I complimented your ancestor that fought to free the slaves. Yes you had ancestors that were not honorable. Everyone does. Sorry if that hurts some unrealistic notion you had about your lineage. I base that on human nature. Its extremely hard to go against whats in your personal best interest. Thats why we have a separate word to describe people like that. Its called being a hero.