4 year old child killed in Gaza bombing

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

I prefer no mothers crying, personally. And yes, that's exactly what war is, "civilians don't matter" as long as they're evil barbarians who hate us good guys for whatever reason. It doesn't change the fact that these are innocent civilians and that killing them is nothing short of murder, especially when done with so little attempt to avoid killing them as we see with Hamas and the Israeli government.

Have you ever been in any war?

No, I have no interest in killing people at all, let alone because some politician says I have to.

That was not my question. Have you been in a war doesn't mean if you fought one, but if you ever felt the meaning.

The answer is no.

Good for you.

But if you haven't, can you really understand the meaning of one? not the ideal of how a war should look...but how ugly can it be once it's part of your life.

I understand that "war is Hell," but, more importantly, I understand that war is nothing more than a state of affairs brought about by politicians, those people we understand to be lying con-men until they assume office when they magically become "statesmen, but I digress, to increase their own power and prestige. With that in mind, it's incumbent upon everybody to object to the mass murder that typifies modern warfare.

 

[Lipush]

That's only partly true.

We enterd this current war because we had no other choice.

It was Netanyahoo's choice how to end it. He had no choice but to start it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It's the most twisted thing. Hamas as a political organization wishes the death of its own voters and people.

One sick nation, that is.

I'm no fan of Netanyahoo, I think he did many bad things, but even I don't see a situation when he pushes for Israeli deaths just to gain more money from sponsers and arming himself.

If you think Netanyahu doesn't use the threat of Hamas to his political, military, and international advantage then you're crazy. Just like the U.S. uses the "threat" of terrorism to benefit themselves politically and monetarily.

Didn't say he doesn't. I know he does. Just like they use his words. Nothing new there.

I don't see him using us as human shields, though.

That's because he's not fighting a guerrilla war like Hamas is. Netanyahu is going for shock and awe. This point is irrelevant, however, because I'm not justifying Hamas's firing rockets from civilian areas the way so many are trying to justify the Israeli governments indiscriminate attacks against Palestinian civilians.

 

[Beelzebub]

Nope.

Palestinians have gone to international bodies, mediators, world powers, courts and tried to stage resistance there.

Israel and the US blocked them every time.

Hamas was elected and went for peace and tried to be a government, but Israel and the US banned them and blockaded them, and walled them in.

Stop complaining that your enemy doesn't face you naked on your battlefield of choice,

And give them what they need to make peace for them worthwhile. Their own state, or respect and equality in yours.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That's only partly true.

We enterd this current war because we had no other choice.

It was Netanyahoo's choice how to end it. He had no choice but to start it.

That any war is inevitable is a lazy response, because they're not. It's only inevitable in the sense that politicians, especially politicians being armed and funded by the United States government, have little incentive to find an alternative path to peace.

 

[Darkwind]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

Collateral damage? No. Hamas wanted this child dead so that they can benefit from it. Just look at how you are doing their work for them. Using civilians as a propaganda tool directly implicates the person so does so.

I'm thinking since you are willing to aid Hamas in their cowardice and propaganda, that means you are implicated in this child's death.

 

[Beelzebub]

Man shoots baby. Then shoots father.

Runs into the street shouting: "I only shot the baby because the dad wanted me to."

 

[Darkwind]

Man shoots baby. Then shoots father.

Runs into the street shouting: "I only shot the baby because the dad wanted me to."

Not even close to a proper analogy.

Man holds baby while pointing a gun at another mans son. Man shots both hostage and man to save his own son.

That is the accurate analogy.

 

[Kondor3]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

 

[Beelzebub]

Man shoots baby. Then shoots father.

Runs into the street shouting: "I only shot the baby because the dad wanted me to."

Not even close to a proper analogy.

Man holds baby while pointing a gun at another mans son. Man shots both hostage and man to save his own son.

That is the accurate analogy.

Well if you want it accurate, add that the one who did the killing was in the other guys house, robbing him at the time, and had brought his son along to help carry out the TV.

And for that matter had not just killed the father, the baby but the mother grand parents, cousins and sisters, to a count of about 20. No - 30.

 

[Darkwind]

Man shoots baby. Then shoots father.

Runs into the street shouting: "I only shot the baby because the dad wanted me to."

Not even close to a proper analogy.

Man holds baby while pointing a gun at another mans son. Man shots both hostage and man to save his own son.

That is the accurate analogy.

Well if you want it accurate, add that the one who did the killing was in the other guys house, robbing him at the time, and had brought his son along to help carry out the TV.

That would not be accurate at all. A more accurate picture would be the man holding the hostage would be pointing the gun over the fence at the second mans son.

All of it can be avoided by the hostage taker just going out into the street and directly challenging the other man. However, since we know the cowardice that resides in hostage takers, we know that will never happen. So, more children will die for the cowardice of a few.

 

[Beelzebub]

Bollocks. Israel is all over Palestine, like a rash.

They are robbing Palestinians blind, in their own land, while claiming more and more to be Israel by placing settlements in it.

Israel is run and settled by a bunch of robbers who take everything at the point of a gun, until they are stopped.

 

[Kondor3]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

 

[Kondor3]

Bollocks. Israel is all over Palestine, like a rash.

They are robbing Palestinians blind, in their own land, while claiming more and more to be Israel by placing settlements in it.

Israel is run and settled by a bunch of robbers who take everything at the point of a gun, until they are stopped.

Rather like how their Arab ancestors stole the region from the previous owners, I suspect.

What goes around, comes around.

Now, it's the Arabs' turn in the barrel.

 

[Beelzebub]

Bollocks. Israel is all over Palestine, like a rash.

They are robbing Palestinians blind, in their own land, while claiming more and more to be Israel by placing settlements in it.

Israel is run and settled by a bunch of robbers who take everything at the point of a gun, until they are stopped.

Rather like how their Arab ancestors stole the region from the previous owners, I suspect.

What goes around, comes around.

Now, it's the Arabs' turn in the barrel.

Well, at least you agree that Israel is a bunch of armed robbers.

There is hope for you Kondor. You will be worried to hear.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

 

[Darkwind]

Bollocks. Israel is all over Palestine, like a rash.

They are robbing Palestinians blind, in their own land, while claiming more and more to be Israel by placing settlements in it.

Israel is run and settled by a bunch of robbers who take everything at the point of a gun, until they are stopped.

There is no Palestine. So I guess your response is a non-sequitur.

If Hamas and the other cowards had tried 40, 30, 20, or even 10 years ago to live peaceably beside Israel, and to stop the attack then as now, Gaza would not have to be locked down. As it is, the continuing importation of arms rather than a decent economy can be laid at the feet of Hamas AND the PLO.

 

[Darkwind]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

 

[Beelzebub]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?