4 year old child killed in Gaza bombing

[Lipush]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

 

[Lipush]

And from what orifice are you pulling that ratio? How many unarmed civilians does it take to overpower an armed aggressor? And do you think Hamas asks their neighbors what they think before they fire a rocket?

As long as the terrorist filth enjoys support financially from its backers in the mideast - and from useful idiots in the West, apologizing for their violence and murder, manufacturing excuses for them no matter how horrendously they behave, peace will never be achieved.

It is sad to say, but I don't know which of those two are more problematic, the financial supporters or the apologists, who run to the media who are only to vapid and scummy to refuse, but are utterly clueless too stupid to recognize how they are being used by the terrorists. It does make one wonder how this minor, inconsequential conflict receives so much media attention, while other, much more impactful and massive wars receive so little.

"how this minor, inconsequential conflict receives so much media attention, while other, much more impactful and massive wars receive so little"

Because this atrocity is supported by Governments in the west, whose citizens (outside those in the US) are against their financing and support of mass murder.

Netanyahoo was voted for democratically

So was Hamas, which is known by the USA as a terror organization.

 

[Beelzebub]

In an occupation of choice, followed up by a war of choice by the occupier, there is no defence of self-defence.

Israel is obliged to not shoot through people, then call them human shields. When clearly they don't deflect the ordinance, not even a little bit.

 

[Lipush]

Tell me honestly, do you not find the fact that Hamas leaders hide beneath Shifa hospital an act of cowardice?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

 

[Lipush]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

 

[Ropey]

In an occupation of choice, followed up by a war of choice by the occupier, there is no defence of self-defence.

Israel is obliged to not shoot through people, then call them human shields. When clearly they don't deflect the ordinance, not even a little bit.

Tell me honestly, do you not find the fact that Hamas leaders hide beneath Shifa hospital an act of cowardice?

He's using the defense of no defense fail.

It's the same as the demand for symmetry in deaths... also a fail.

It's not a defense and that's why it's a fail. It's an offense and it's offensive to most of humanity as well.

So, it's both strategically an offense as a tactic, and it's also offensive as a moral. (imho)

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

I prefer no mothers crying, personally. And yes, that's exactly what war is, "civilians don't matter" as long as they're evil barbarians who hate us good guys for whatever reason. It doesn't change the fact that these are innocent civilians and that killing them is nothing short of murder, especially when done with so little attempt to avoid killing them as we see with Hamas and the Israeli government.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

 

[Lipush]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

I prefer no mothers crying, personally. And yes, that's exactly what war is, "civilians don't matter" as long as they're evil barbarians who hate us good guys for whatever reason. It doesn't change the fact that these are innocent civilians and that killing them is nothing short of murder, especially when done with so little attempt to avoid killing them as we see with Hamas and the Israeli government.

Have you ever been in any war?

 

[Lipush]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It's the most twisted thing. Hamas as a political organization wishes the death of its own voters and people.

One sick nation, that is.

I'm no fan of Netanyahoo, I think he did many bad things, but even I don't see a situation when he pushes for Israeli deaths just to gain more money from sponsers and arming himself.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It is war and Israel is out to win it. Many missions by Israel are aborted when the IDF or IAF realize there are civilians in the way. If the IDF or IAF attack Hamas, without knowing there are civilians in the area, then that is tragic, but certainly not Israel's fault as they are simply returning fire and/or preventing further attacks from Hamas.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

I prefer no mothers crying, personally. And yes, that's exactly what war is, "civilians don't matter" as long as they're evil barbarians who hate us good guys for whatever reason. It doesn't change the fact that these are innocent civilians and that killing them is nothing short of murder, especially when done with so little attempt to avoid killing them as we see with Hamas and the Israeli government.

Have you ever been in any war?

No, I have no interest in killing people at all, let alone because some politician says I have to.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It's the most twisted thing. Hamas as a political organization wishes the death of its own voters and people.

One sick nation, that is.

I'm no fan of Netanyahoo, I think he did many bad things, but even I don't see a situation when he pushes for Israeli deaths just to gain more money from sponsers and arming himself.

If you think Netanyahu doesn't use the threat of Hamas to his political, military, and international advantage then you're crazy. Just like the U.S. uses the "threat" of terrorism to benefit themselves politically and monetarily.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It is war and Israel is out to win it. Many missions by Israel are aborted when the IDF or IAF realize there are civilians in the way. If the IDF or IAF attack Hamas, without knowing there are civilians in the area, then that is tragic, but certainly not Israel's fault as they are simply returning fire and/or preventing further attacks from Hamas.

You don't think they knew civilians were in the schools they blew up, or the neighborhoods? Give me a break. And yes, it is absolutely Israel's fault for simply deciding that those civilians don't matter. Hamas is absolutely just as responsible, but it's ridiculous that you want to completely exempt Israel from any responsibility because it's "war." War is just what the State, any state, not just Israel, calls its campaigns of mass murder. There's nothing special about it just because some politician declares it a war.

 

[Beelzebub]

Tell me honestly, do you not find the fact that Hamas leaders hide beneath Shifa hospital an act of cowardice?

If you take the aggressors perspective, they seem to think Hamas only fight fair if they find an open field, evacuate all civilians to far away, and they stand up to Israel there. Well that would of course be an invitation to mass murder by the IDF who would happily wipe all armed resistance with a few 1000 lb bombs.

Hamas is fighting a rear guard action against an invader who has taken people out of the surrounding countryside and towns, forced them into Gaza, starved them, bombed them, laid siege to them, and shot dead children if they wander too close to the 'buffer zone'. Israel has prevented trade between Gaza and the rest of the world, and killed their fishermen, even within the 3 mile zone that Israel permitted them to use.

Hamas, though armed resistance made settlement of Gaza too expensive for Israel to continue, in lives, in dollars and in world censure. Hamas are effective.

As bad as they are without them, or similar resistance, Gaza would be as cut up and settled as is the West Bank.

They cannot operate in open fields or separate military bases. You would kill them.
You destroy police stations. You destroy their family homes and their families.

If you are not shooting at a hospital or a school or a UNWRA shelter you are shooting at a similarly densely populated area. There really is no reason why Hamas should operate to the convenience of the IDF.

Palestinians near Hamas members will die. But not because of Hamas but because Israel is not prepared to be careful in its fire and in fact Israel has shown it wants to spread collective punishment beyond what they can bear. So Israel will kill whatever Hamas does. If you are stupid enough to shoot at hospitals and schools then you will be doubly blamed, and held up for war crimes.

If they went to another part of town you will kill civilians there, and maybe get away with it more with the internationals. It is not Hamas who does the harm. They just give Israel a harder choice.

Israel solves that by killing everyone, "without prejudice."

 

[Lipush]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

No, this is murder, just like every other innocent man, woman, and child that has been killed.

War = Murder?

Essentially, though theoretically it doesn't have to. Regardless, we don't get to redefine words simply because the State does them. Murdering innocent civilians becomes "collateral damage," yet it's still one group of people killing innocent people. Sorry, still murder.

Has Israel been killing civilians on a large scale merely for the sake of killing civilians?

I think not.

That's the modus operandi of Hamas, however, and all the lipstick in the world isn't gonna dress-up that pig.

Given the fact that they've been purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure I would say it's pretty clear they have been doing just that. You can talk about Hamas using human shields if you want, but it doesn't excuse Israel for then simply choosing to mow down those human shields. Regardless of whether they've been deliberately targeting civilians, however, they have killed a large number of civilians, which at the very least amounts to manslaughter on a massive scale. Though once you reach the number of dead civilians that Israel has racked up I would say it clearly ceases to be manslaughter and turns into murder.

Israel target military bases and rocket bases who previously were, maybe, civilian areas.

Once they started holding weapons that killed and Injured Israelis, they are no longer views as civilian areas.

So every person is guilty if a Hamas militant decides to hide in a civilian neighborhood or school? Sorry, that's not the way it works.

That's not what I've said.

Hamas used civilians as shields in this war, Israel at first didn't attack those places because of the civilians. This policy first proved failing when an Israeli boy was crytically injured because of Israel not attacking those places. Then afterwards, the army changed thinking. Each place where rockets are launched from is a legitimate target. no matter what or where it is.

Hamas wouldn't be save hiding behind civilians anymore.

If it was YOUR teenage boy you would have praised that thinking

So they're not guilty, they just don't matter. Regardless, killing innocent civilians just leads to more resentment, thus more support for Hamas, thus more inevitable rocket attacks against Israel. The Israeli government does exactly what Hamas wants them to do by killing innocent civilians, and makes monsters of themselves in the process.

It's a war. There is no such thing in a war called "civilians don't matter", but there is a thing called "we own our people this, even though the other side suffered, because our people matter to us more".

THAT is the thinking.

I agree that killing innocent people leads to resentment, but resentment on the other side is more tolerable than you burying your loved ones on YOUR side.

Do you prefer the Gaza mother cries, or you prefer YOUR mother crying?

Israel playing to Hamas' hands? maybe. probably. But that doesn't change anything much, either way

I prefer no mothers crying, personally. And yes, that's exactly what war is, "civilians don't matter" as long as they're evil barbarians who hate us good guys for whatever reason. It doesn't change the fact that these are innocent civilians and that killing them is nothing short of murder, especially when done with so little attempt to avoid killing them as we see with Hamas and the Israeli government.

Have you ever been in any war?

No, I have no interest in killing people at all, let alone because some politician says I have to.

That was not my question. Have you been in a war doesn't mean if you fought one, but if you ever felt the meaning.

The answer is no.

Good for you.

But if you haven't, can you really understand the meaning of one? not the ideal of how a war should look...but how ugly can it be once it's part of your life.

 

[Lipush]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

It's the most twisted thing. Hamas as a political organization wishes the death of its own voters and people.

One sick nation, that is.

I'm no fan of Netanyahoo, I think he did many bad things, but even I don't see a situation when he pushes for Israeli deaths just to gain more money from sponsers and arming himself.

If you think Netanyahu doesn't use the threat of Hamas to his political, military, and international advantage then you're crazy. Just like the U.S. uses the "threat" of terrorism to benefit themselves politically and monetarily.

Didn't say he doesn't. I know he does. Just like they use his words. Nothing new there.

I don't see him using us as human shields, though.

 

[Lipush]

Tell me honestly, do you not find the fact that Hamas leaders hide beneath Shifa hospital an act of cowardice?

If you take the aggressors perspective, they seem to think Hamas only fight fair if they find an open field, evacuate all civilians to far away, and they stand up to Israel there. Well that would of course be an invitation to mass murder by the IDF who would happily wipe all armed resistance with a few 1000 lb bombs.

Hamas is fighting a rear guard action against an invader who has taken people out of the surrounding countryside and towns, forced them into Gaza, starved them, bombed them, laid siege to them, and shot dead children if they wander too close to the 'buffer zone'. Israel has prevented trade between Gaza and the rest of the world, and killed their fishermen, even within the 3 mile zone that Israel permitted them to use.

Hamas, though armed resistance made settlement of Gaza too expensive for Israel to continue, in lives, in dollars and in world censure. Hamas are effective.

As bad as they are without them, or similar resistance, Gaza would be as cut up and settled as is the West Bank.

They cannot operate in open fields or separate military bases. You would kill them.
You destroy police stations. You destroy their family homes and their families.

If you are not shooting at a hospital or a school or a UNWRA shelter you are shooting at a similarly densely populated area. There really is no reason why Hamas should operate to the convenience of the IDF.

Palestinians near Hamas members will die. But not because of Hamas but because Israel is not prepared to be careful in its fire and in fact Israel has shown it wants to spread collective punishment beyond what they can bear. So Israel will kill whatever Hamas does. If you are stupid enough to shoot at hospitals and schools then you will be doubly blamed, and held up for war crimes.

If they went to another part of town you will kill civilians there, and maybe get away with it more with the internationals. It is not Hamas who does the harm. They just give Israel a harder choice.

Israel solves that by killing everyone, "without prejudice."

There is no "armed resistance", you don't "resist" anyone when you use tactic that are against any laws of nature and war, which is what Hamas is doing. Resistance, you have diplomatic resistance, that's acceptable.

But what Hamas is doing is no "resistance". Kidnapping 3 innocent boys just to start a war is an act of wickedness and cowardice. Hiding behind the old and sick and pregnant woman is no act of bravery.

Hamas has no place among people who are life loving or peaceful.

Israel is not careful with fire is not something you or me or any other non-fighter knows. Only they in the battle know if they were careful or not.

If they use their hospitals and civilian areas as hiding places, they can only cry to themselves once those are bombed.

They launch rockets at Israelis without care if they kill a 4 year old boy and a soldier. If Israel is indeed immoral, it grew to become this thanks to it's enemies, who spread hatred in the area.

But Israel will always by at higher moral standards. Because Israel doesn't see the death of innocent as "achievement" like they do. They celebrate when our civilians die. We never take joy when their kids get hurt.

That's the difference between us and them