2nd Amendment, Scalia and what the Founders meant: Commas, Common Sense and Justice. The question is how to interpret the comma after 'free state.'

What in the wacky world are you going on about? Where was that argued in the Court and was it in the decision? Try and posting something relevant and of value.
Try the Bill of Rights. Isn't it amazing how we can all agree that they all apply to the individual, excepting the 10th, which specifically mentions states rights, but somehow the 2nd only applies to the collective even though it specifically names THE PEOPLE.

Not the government, THE PEOPLE.

You truly are a mental midget.
 
Wow....now that is a steaming pile of horseshit.

The first clause is the dependent clause.....It's exclusion would mean nothing to the rest of the Amendment.

You fascists want us disarmed so bad......
The OP states "Hazrat argues that commas should play no role in interpreting the amendment..." Read the OP, before you post some stupid, ignorant, worthless bumper sticker slogans.

”Justice Antonin Scalia, the author of the ruling, wrote that the comma set apart a mere preface to the “operative clause” of the amendment..."

You illiterates want to run things and you can't even get your facts straight.
 
Try the Bill of Rights. Isn't it amazing how we can all agree that they all apply to the individual, excepting the 10th, which specifically mentions states rights, but somehow the 2nd only applies to the collective even though it specifically names THE PEOPLE.

Not the government, THE PEOPLE.

You truly are a mental midget.
Read the actual decision, and the dissents and...

never mind.

stay ignorant. It fits you like a glove.
 
Read the actual decision, and the dissents and...

never mind.

stay ignorant. It fits you like a glove.
I did, dumbass. I also have read the letters of the writers of the Constitution, and they make it VERY clear that the 2nd is an INDIVIDUAL Right.

So who to listen to, a mentally ill moron on the web, or the people who actually WROTE the document.....gee...that's an easy answer.
 
I did, dumbass. I also have read the letters of the writers of the Constitution, and they make it VERY clear that the 2nd is an INDIVIDUAL Right.

So who to listen to, a mentally ill moron on the web, or the people who actually WROTE the document.....gee...that's an easy answer.
come on west dante says he has more intellectual depth then ten of us here....
 
you have so much depth you cant spell things correctly....
hilarious post!

Dante types 'wicked' fast with two fingers. His errors have absolutely nothing to do with his ability to spell. His vocabulary and spelling rate off the chart on tests. He was a precocious child who devoured reading material, when others were trying to learn how to hit a ball with a stick .. lol .. dumb dopes. And Dante could swing a bat - hit the body of any kids who dared mess with him.
 
I did, dumbass. I also have read the letters of the writers of the Constitution, and they make it VERY clear that the 2nd is an INDIVIDUAL Right.

So who to listen to, a mentally ill moron on the web, or the people who actually WROTE the document.....gee...that's an easy answer.
Good gawd :auiqs.jpg: , nobody here believes you understood one tenth of what you claim to have read.:auiqs.jpg:

Here at usmb, you are know to read posts and reply to them as if those posts said something entirely different than what was posted.

and btw, the legal arguments and dissents on the court address what you claim to know about. You're just a shite-talker.
 
[ In fact, conservative jurists were quick to criticize Heller as lacking two supposed hallmarks of judicial conservatism: an unbiased review of the evidence about the meaning of the Second Amendment and, given ambiguity about that meaning, judicial restraint. Justice Scalia’s opinion, these judicial conservatives argued, deployed an unbalanced historical analysis, reached a questionable conclusion about a constitutional right, and failed to defer to the judgments of elected officials.

J. Harvie Wilkinson III, a conservative Fourth Circuit judge, likened Heller to Roe v. Wade, and suggested that Heller was a “new” form of judicial activism based in “originalism.” Conservative Seventh Circuit Judge Richard Posner agreed in equally stark terms, writing that Heller reflected not conservatism, but rather “freewheeling discretion strongly flavored with ideology.”

To be sure, not all conservatives agree with this critique from the right and, in any event, Heller is now on the books and the rule of law requires lower courts to abide by it.

But the perceived judicial activism underlying Heller is relevant to how lower court judges, especially many judicial conservatives, analyze challenges to gun laws less extreme than the handgun ban at issue in Heller. In those cases, judges must decide whether to extend Heller’s core holding — which, in its narrowest form, is that the Second Amendment protects the right of law-abiding citizens to possess a handgun in the home for self-defense — in order to strike down firearm restrictions in other circumstances. In making that decision, lower court judges are guided by cautionary language in Heller itself that the Second Amendment is “not unlimited” and that the opinion should not “cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions,” which are “presumptively lawful.” ] - quotes

Homework assignment for westwall
 
yea your such a scholar on this dante...
Homework assignment for Harry Dresden




 
And "well regulated". That`s very clear.
["Essentially Scalia argued that the Founders meant, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms — something separate — shall not be infringed.”

Hazrat argues that commas should play no role in interpreting the amendment...

Rather, we should accept the most plausible interpretation of what the words mean. Until this century there was a broad understanding that the Founders meant that all clauses of the amendment, no matter how many there are, should be read together. As in, people should be able to bear arms to serve in a militia, not just for any reason they want.

I would add that the comma is less the issue than that Scalia’s interpretation is hopelessly forced. Scalia persuasively argued that in the late 18th century, “bear arms” referred to using weapons in various ways, not just in a militia. But it still leaves a crucial question: Why would the Founders bring up one type of gun ownership — when serving in a militia — if they wanted to approve all kinds of gun ownership? If they wanted to preface their proclamation, as Scalia claimed, they could have mentioned not only serving in a militia, but self-defense and hunting.

Under Scalia’s analysis, the following sentence would pass muster: “Basketball, aiding in health, sports, shall be encouraged.” Such a sentence is beyond clumsy.

It insults the Founders to suppose that this sort of convolution was the best they could do when adjudicating something of such gravity.

It comes down to this: “Officials, being prone to partisan bias, Supreme Court justices, should interpret language according to what is most intuitive.”"] - quotes
 
I did, dumbass. I also have read the letters of the writers of the Constitution, and they make it VERY clear that the 2nd is an INDIVIDUAL Right.

So who to listen to, a mentally ill moron on the web, or the people who actually WROTE the document.....gee...that's an easy answer.
When asked about original intent, James Madison wrote people should look to what the ratifiers thought words meant and what they, the ratifiers intended, and NOT look to the authors - framers, of the USC.

The ratifiers are not the states. The framers knew a government should not be deciding what sort of government the people should have, so they sent out the new document to the people of each state, to the people of the proposed nation. This is why the state legislators did not get to ratify the document. The representatives chosen/elected by the people for the express purpose of voting on ratification, got to vote on ratification. Some of these people were elected office holders in their respective states, but they DID NOT sit in judgement of ratification as members of any state office.
 
When asked about original intent, James Madison wrote people should look to what the ratifiers thought words meant and what they, the ratifiers intended, and NOT look to the authors - framers, of the USC.

The ratifiers are not the states. The framers knew a government should not be deciding what sort of government the people should have, so they sent out the new document to the people of each state, to the people of the proposed nation. This is why the state legislators did not get to ratify the document. The representatives chosen/elected by the people for the express purpose of voting on ratification, got to vote on ratification. Some of these people were elected office holders in their respective states, but they DID NOT sit in judgement of ratification as members of any state office.
The Founders KNEW that all governments eventually become corrupt, so they ensured the the PEOPLE had the means to REMOVE that corrupt government.

DURRRRRR
 
15th post
And "well regulated". That`s very clear.
Indeed, at the time the 2nd was written "well regulated" meant "in good working order", which is why you see that phrase engraved on CLOCKS.

Tell us auggie, where are the laws controlling clocks?
 
["Essentially Scalia argued that the Founders meant, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms — something separate — shall not be infringed.”

Hazrat argues that commas should play no role in interpreting the amendment...

Rather, we should accept the most plausible interpretation of what the words mean. Until this century there was a broad understanding that the Founders meant that all clauses of the amendment, no matter how many there are, should be read together. As in, people should be able to bear arms to serve in a militia, not just for any reason they want.

I would add that the comma is less the issue than that Scalia’s interpretation is hopelessly forced. Scalia persuasively argued that in the late 18th century, “bear arms” referred to using weapons in various ways, not just in a militia. But it still leaves a crucial question: Why would the Founders bring up one type of gun ownership — when serving in a militia — if they wanted to approve all kinds of gun ownership? If they wanted to preface their proclamation, as Scalia claimed, they could have mentioned not only serving in a militia, but self-defense and hunting.

Under Scalia’s analysis, the following sentence would pass muster: “Basketball, aiding in health, sports, shall be encouraged.” Such a sentence is beyond clumsy.

It insults the Founders to suppose that this sort of convolution was the best they could do when adjudicating something of such gravity.

It comes down to this: “Officials, being prone to partisan bias, Supreme Court justices, should interpret language according to what is most intuitive.”"] - quotes
It comes down to officials become corrupt. The 2nd is our final redress.
 
The Founders KNEW that all governments eventually become corrupt, so they ensured the the PEOPLE had the means to REMOVE that corrupt government.

DURRRRRR

and amend the constitution

 
and amend the constitution

Once a government gets too corrupt, there is no way to do that.

Thus the 2nd.
 
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