260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December

[Obiwan]

kind of bringing things back to the op - this isn't a new thing. the mental incompetence rule has been in place since 1968. the va is recognized, legally, as being able to make that determination.

why would anyone want the mentally incompetent to have greater access to guns?

Well except for the LEGAL requirement that before one LOSE a protected right ONE MUST BE so adjudged by competent authority which MEANS a JUDGE not a bureaucracy.

what makes a judge competent in deciding if someone is mentally deficient?

Be specific explain how a bureaucracy nameless and faceless knows the facts and weighs them and gives the accused an opportunity to defend ones self? As opposed to say a Judge in a Court of Law? Then remind us how you are just fine with no legal procedures removing rights of US Citizens then explain what happens when those rights are yours they are removing at some future juncture

You don't end up with a fiduciary trustee without a court finding you mentally deficient and appointing one to you.

Which opens up another can of worms, since the VA is making these determinations WITHOUT going before the courts...

That's another unilateral action by the VA which, according to you, is illegal....

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

 

[Obiwan]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

 

[jon_berzerk]

i'm going to do this for the people (Iceweasel) accusing me of lying or misapplying the law.

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person --



(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;



(2) is a fugitive from justice;



(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));



(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618

[/SIZE][/B]
§ 478.11Meaning of terms.
When used in this part and in forms prescribed under this part, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section. Words in the plural form shall include the singular, and vice versa, and words importing the masculine gender shall include the feminine. The terms “includes” and “including” do not exclude other things not enumerated which are in the same general class or are otherwise within the scope thereof.
Act. 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.
Adjudicated as a mental defective. (a) A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that aperson, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:
(1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or
(2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.
(b) The term shall include—
(1) A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and
(2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice,
.

27 CFR 478.11 - Meaning of terms.

now, if anyone believes that those very clear pieces of text do not mean what they so clearly do please feel free to say why - or continue to argue from ignorance and emotion.

I think I can clear this up for you...

Here are the disqualifications for owning a firearm....

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; (2) is a fugitive from justice; (3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); (4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution; (5) who, being an alien - (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26))); (6) who (!2) has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; (8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that - (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and (B)(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or (9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. - See more at: 18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts

Now, in case you're a real Dumbass, "adjudicated" means a determination was made by the COURTS....

So the VA exceeded their authority by usurping the court's role and making the determination that the veteran's should lose their Second Amendment rights on their own (non-existant) authority....

exactly but anti rights folks dont care

 

[ogibillm]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

what you were referring to doesn't matter. the 1968 gca says that once adjudicated as a mental defective it becomes illegal for the person to own or purchase guns and ammunition.

 

[Obiwan]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

what you were referring to doesn't matter. the 1968 gca says that once adjudicated as a mental defective it becomes illegal for the person to own or purchase guns and ammunition.

That means LEGALLY adjudicated as a mental defective...

THAT requires a legal ruling by the courts, not an "opinion" by some bureaucrat somewhere deciding to strip someone of their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS....

 

[ogibillm]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

what you were referring to doesn't matter. the 1968 gca says that once adjudicated as a mental defective it becomes illegal for the person to own or purchase guns and ammunition.

That means LEGALLY adjudicated as a mental defective...

THAT requires a legal ruling by the courts, not an "opinion" by some bureaucrat somewhere deciding to strip someone of their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS....

keep saying it, you'll still be wrong

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

Really rather lame to go with that. If that is your claim NOW, why wasn't it from the start? The first source you linked in your OP states what the subject was, so how could you not understand what you posted and why of a sudden is it now something different! Let me refresh your memory with a passage from that source you cited in your OP;

Last December the VA started reporting thousands of veterans to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check system, which is responsible for determining whether or not a potential gun buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

Specifically, they’ve been reporting veterans who have a fiduciary trustee to act on their behalf for legal or financial matters. All veterans with this arrangement are being automatically declared “mentally defective” according to Guns.com, and are having their second amendment rights revoked. Over the past 4 months alone the VA has reported over 260,000 veterans to the NICS, which now accounts for 99% of all “mentally defective” claims to the database. < 260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December >

Now do you really want to try and claim you were hijacking your own fucking thread? That turd doesn't have wings and ain't gonna fly! You have gone on through this entire thread with a finger pointed at the VA. The VBA was the entity that adjudicated the decisions for those with fiduciaries, and they could be challenged when the decision was final. That was/is the law. The authority for that, as well as the appeal process, was authorized by CONGRESS and signed into LAW! Trying to cover your ass now because you had no understanding of how the VBA works by trying to weasel out of your fraud is a fools errand and so very transparent!

 

[Obiwan]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

Really rather lame to go with that. If that is your claim NOW, why wasn't it from the start? The first source you linked in your OP states what the subject was, so how could you not understand what you posted and why of a sudden is it now something different! Let me refresh your memory with a passage from that source you cited in your OP;

Last December the VA started reporting thousands of veterans to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check system, which is responsible for determining whether or not a potential gun buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

Specifically, they’ve been reporting veterans who have a fiduciary trustee to act on their behalf for legal or financial matters. All veterans with this arrangement are being automatically declared “mentally defective” according to Guns.com, and are having their second amendment rights revoked. Over the past 4 months alone the VA has reported over 260,000 veterans to the NICS, which now accounts for 99% of all “mentally defective” claims to the database. < 260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December >

Now do you really want to try and claim you were hijacking your own fucking thread? That turd doesn't have wings and ain't gonna fly! You have gone on through this entire thread with a finger pointed at the VA. The VBA was the entity that adjudicated the decisions for those with fiduciaries, and they could be challenged when the decision was final. That was/is the law. The authority for that, as well as the appeal process, was authorized by CONGRESS and signed into LAW! Trying to cover your ass now because you had no understanding of how the VBA works by trying to weasel out of your fraud is a fools errand and so very transparent!

The question being addressed in this thread is not whether the VA has the authority to oversee a program administered by their agency.... They certainly have that....

The question being posed is whether the VA can usurp the role of the courts in adjudicating a veteran to be mentally incompetent for the purpose of owning a firearm....

The actual ruling on that has to be handed down by a court of competent jurisdiction, since it effectively strips an individual of their LEGAL RIGHTS under US law....

Or are you trying to maintain that the VA is above US law????

 

[RetiredGySgt]

kind of bringing things back to the op - this isn't a new thing. the mental incompetence rule has been in place since 1968. the va is recognized, legally, as being able to make that determination.

why would anyone want the mentally incompetent to have greater access to guns?

Well except for the LEGAL requirement that before one LOSE a protected right ONE MUST BE so adjudged by competent authority which MEANS a JUDGE not a bureaucracy.

what makes a judge competent in deciding if someone is mentally deficient?

Be specific explain how a bureaucracy nameless and faceless knows the facts and weighs them and gives the accused an opportunity to defend ones self? As opposed to say a Judge in a Court of Law? Then remind us how you are just fine with no legal procedures removing rights of US Citizens then explain what happens when those rights are yours they are removing at some future juncture

You don't end up with a fiduciary trustee without a court finding you mentally deficient and appointing one to you.

Yes you do The VA and SS declare you incompetent and then refuse to deliver your benefits unless you designate a payee in writing, No Court NO JUDGE.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

what you were referring to doesn't matter. the 1968 gca says that once adjudicated as a mental defective it becomes illegal for the person to own or purchase guns and ammunition.

And ONLY a COURT can make that ruling not a Government agency.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

Really rather lame to go with that. If that is your claim NOW, why wasn't it from the start? The first source you linked in your OP states what the subject was, so how could you not understand what you posted and why of a sudden is it now something different! Let me refresh your memory with a passage from that source you cited in your OP;

Last December the VA started reporting thousands of veterans to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check system, which is responsible for determining whether or not a potential gun buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

Specifically, they’ve been reporting veterans who have a fiduciary trustee to act on their behalf for legal or financial matters. All veterans with this arrangement are being automatically declared “mentally defective” according to Guns.com, and are having their second amendment rights revoked. Over the past 4 months alone the VA has reported over 260,000 veterans to the NICS, which now accounts for 99% of all “mentally defective” claims to the database. < 260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December >

Now do you really want to try and claim you were hijacking your own fucking thread? That turd doesn't have wings and ain't gonna fly! You have gone on through this entire thread with a finger pointed at the VA. The VBA was the entity that adjudicated the decisions for those with fiduciaries, and they could be challenged when the decision was final. That was/is the law. The authority for that, as well as the appeal process, was authorized by CONGRESS and signed into LAW! Trying to cover your ass now because you had no understanding of how the VBA works by trying to weasel out of your fraud is a fools errand and so very transparent!

The question being addressed in this thread is not whether the VA has the authority to oversee a program administered by their agency.... They certainly have that....

The question being posed is whether the VA can usurp the role of the courts in adjudicating a veteran to be mentally incompetent for the purpose of owning a firearm....

The actual ruling on that has to be handed down by a court of competent jurisdiction, since it effectively strips an individual of their LEGAL RIGHTS under US law....

Or are you trying to maintain that the VA is above US law????

What I'm saying is that you do not know jack shit about the subject. Even your "sources" in the OP are highly suspect. Congress gave the VBA the power to determine, through medical evidence via examination as part of the claims process, whether or not a beneficiary of VA benefits was or was not competent. If found incompetent, the beneficiary was to be assigned a fiduciary to manage the beneficiary's financial affairs viv-a-vis their monthly VA benefits. That rule was posted in 67 FR 46868, July 17, 2002. you can look it up after you read 38 CFR, Book B, ADJUCATION!

If, as you say, there is a ruling on that that, "...handed down by a court of competent jurisdiction, since it effectively strips an individual of their LEGAL RIGHTS under US law....", then what the hell is that ruling. Cite it with a proper link so we can all read it! BTW, I tried to edify you on the legal path the VA must follow, which is THE FUCKING COMPETENT JURISDICTION FOR ALL VA CLAIMS. No other Court outside the VA can grant standing for a VA benefits dispute until all VA appeal sources have been exhausted, meaning all the way through and out of the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.

You really don't know jack shit on this topic, so why don't you stop digging the damn hole deeper for yourself!

 

[PredFan]

Good for the VA

With the number of PTSD suicides, the last thing these guys need is a handy firearm

Because the ONLY way to kill yourself is with a gun. You are such an idiot.

Two out of three suicides in the U.S. Involve a firearm

Problem with a gun vs other forms of suicide is that it only takes a split second to kill and you can't change your mind

So jumping from a tall building is any different?

yep. climbing to the top of a tall building, finding a place to jump, and then diing so is a lot more difficult than getting drunk and sad with a loaded gun

Look, I know I'm wasting my time here, you liberal idiots wouldn't ever admit you were wrong even if you were smart enough to realize you were wrong. But hey, I'm bored at the moment so here is a clue for you:

It doesn't matter if guns make it easier, the simple fact is that if someone is determined to kill themselves lack of a gun won't stop them. They do not kill themselves because they have a gun.

No charge for the education.

 

[g5000]

kind of bringing things back to the op - this isn't a new thing. the mental incompetence rule has been in place since 1968. the va is recognized, legally, as being able to make that determination.

why would anyone want the mentally incompetent to have greater access to guns?

Well except for the LEGAL requirement that before one LOSE a protected right ONE MUST BE so adjudged by competent authority which MEANS a JUDGE not a bureaucracy.

what makes a judge competent in deciding if someone is mentally deficient?

Be specific explain how a bureaucracy nameless and faceless knows the facts and weighs them and gives the accused an opportunity to defend ones self? As opposed to say a Judge in a Court of Law? Then remind us how you are just fine with no legal procedures removing rights of US Citizens then explain what happens when those rights are yours they are removing at some future juncture

You don't end up with a fiduciary trustee without a court finding you mentally deficient and appointing one to you.

Yes you do The VA and SS declare you incompetent and then refuse to deliver your benefits unless you designate a payee in writing, No Court NO JUDGE.

When a Veteran Will Be Appointed a Fiduciary for Benefits Purposes | Nolo.com

When Is a Veteran Incompetent to Manage VA Finances?
A veteran can be deemed incompetent due to mental disability, advanced age, or even physical infirmity. A finding of incompetence must be supported by medical evidence or a court ruling. In some cases, a court may have ruled you incompetent, and then the VA will also find you incompetent to manage your benefits.

Other times the VA will rely on the findings made by the VA doctor who conducted the Compensation and Pension Exam when deciding that a veteran is incompetent. The Compensation and Pension exam is the exam that is ordered to evaluate your disability after you have applied for disability compensation. The report from this exam will contain a medical opinion about whether or not your disability is service-connected, but may also include information about your mental capacity to handle money.

The VA also relies on medical findings from your routine medical visits to the VA (or a private physician) when deciding if you can handle your own VA benefits or not.

Being found incompetent by the VA to manage your VA benefits will not affect your right to handle other finances or assets you may have.

Can a Finding of Incompetency Be Appealed?
Veterans can appeal a VA finding of incompetency to the VA Regional Office that issued the finding or the Board of Veterans Appeals (BVA) by providing new medical evidence. If the VA Regional Office does not reverse the finding of incompetency, it can be appealed to the Board of Veterans Appeals (BVA) and, if necessary, to the Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC).

At any time, you can also ask to have the VA reassess your ability to manage your VA benefits by submitting a reevaluation request, in writing, to your regional office.

 

[ogibillm]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

what you were referring to doesn't matter. the 1968 gca says that once adjudicated as a mental defective it becomes illegal for the person to own or purchase guns and ammunition.

And ONLY a COURT can make that ruling not a Government agency.

keep repeating it. maybe if you believe it hard enough and want it bad enough it'll be true

 

[ogibillm]

Good for the VA

With the number of PTSD suicides, the last thing these guys need is a handy firearm

Because the ONLY way to kill yourself is with a gun. You are such an idiot.

Two out of three suicides in the U.S. Involve a firearm

Problem with a gun vs other forms of suicide is that it only takes a split second to kill and you can't change your mind

So jumping from a tall building is any different?

yep. climbing to the top of a tall building, finding a place to jump, and then diing so is a lot more difficult than getting drunk and sad with a loaded gun

Look, I know I'm wasting my time here, you liberal idiots wouldn't ever admit you were wrong even if you were smart enough to realize you were wrong. But hey, I'm bored at the moment so here is a clue for you:

It doesn't matter if guns make it easier, the simple fact is that if someone is determined to kill themselves lack of a gun won't stop them. They do not kill themselves because they have a gun.

No charge for the education.

the simple fact is that people with access to guns kill themselves more frequently than those without. that's a fact, and nobody has been able to dispute it with anything other than their feelings

 

[Obiwan]

The VA isn't a "lawful authority", dumbass....

So, again, they have no authority to adjudicate ANYTHING!!!!!

You obviously have no understanding of the VA and especially the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) side of the VA house! Adjudication of submitted claims for pension, disability and survivor claims is what they do. If one takes the time to actually read and understand the LAW codified at 38 USC §§ 101-8528 and then the same for the VBA REGULATIONS codified at 38 CFR Book B, ADJUDICATION, one can clearly see the VBA's authority to adjudicate; it comes from Congress via statute.

As a matter of fact, ANY ADJUCATED claim processed by the VBA with a final decision must be timely appealed through the VA process. That includes going up to the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims under the VA umbrella and beyond to the US Circuit Court of Appeals and even up to the SCOTUS.

I dealt with the VBA for over two fucking years so I had time to learn an awful lot over that time to perfect my claim. Please, do not mark me a supporter of the VA of either the health or benefits side.

Those are all "in-house", dealing with the benefits that the VA oversees, per federal law...

I was referring to something entirely different in my post- the determination that somebody is legally mentally defective, and therefore subject to losing their Second Amendment rights (which fall under the purview of the courts)....

I should have been clearer....

Really rather lame to go with that. If that is your claim NOW, why wasn't it from the start? The first source you linked in your OP states what the subject was, so how could you not understand what you posted and why of a sudden is it now something different! Let me refresh your memory with a passage from that source you cited in your OP;

Last December the VA started reporting thousands of veterans to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check system, which is responsible for determining whether or not a potential gun buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

Specifically, they’ve been reporting veterans who have a fiduciary trustee to act on their behalf for legal or financial matters. All veterans with this arrangement are being automatically declared “mentally defective” according to Guns.com, and are having their second amendment rights revoked. Over the past 4 months alone the VA has reported over 260,000 veterans to the NICS, which now accounts for 99% of all “mentally defective” claims to the database. < 260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December >

Now do you really want to try and claim you were hijacking your own fucking thread? That turd doesn't have wings and ain't gonna fly! You have gone on through this entire thread with a finger pointed at the VA. The VBA was the entity that adjudicated the decisions for those with fiduciaries, and they could be challenged when the decision was final. That was/is the law. The authority for that, as well as the appeal process, was authorized by CONGRESS and signed into LAW! Trying to cover your ass now because you had no understanding of how the VBA works by trying to weasel out of your fraud is a fools errand and so very transparent!

The question being addressed in this thread is not whether the VA has the authority to oversee a program administered by their agency.... They certainly have that....

The question being posed is whether the VA can usurp the role of the courts in adjudicating a veteran to be mentally incompetent for the purpose of owning a firearm....

The actual ruling on that has to be handed down by a court of competent jurisdiction, since it effectively strips an individual of their LEGAL RIGHTS under US law....

Or are you trying to maintain that the VA is above US law????

What I'm saying is that you do not know jack shit about the subject. Even your "sources" in the OP are highly suspect. Congress gave the VBA the power to determine, through medical evidence via examination as part of the claims process, whether or not a beneficiary of VA benefits was or was not competent. If found incompetent, the beneficiary was to be assigned a fiduciary to manage the beneficiary's financial affairs viv-a-vis their monthly VA benefits. That rule was posted in 67 FR 46868, July 17, 2002. you can look it up after you read 38 CFR, Book B, ADJUCATION!

If, as you say, there is a ruling on that that, "...handed down by a court of competent jurisdiction, since it effectively strips an individual of their LEGAL RIGHTS under US law....", then what the hell is that ruling. Cite it with a proper link so we can all read it! BTW, I tried to edify you on the legal path the VA must follow, which is THE FUCKING COMPETENT JURISDICTION FOR ALL VA CLAIMS. No other Court outside the VA can grant standing for a VA benefits dispute until all VA appeal sources have been exhausted, meaning all the way through and out of the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.

You really don't know jack shit on this topic, so why don't you stop digging the damn hole deeper for yourself!

And once again, you go off on a rant about the VA's ability to administer their own programs, when the topic of this thread is the VA's practice of taking away veterans' Constitutional right to own firearms (a role reserved for the COURTS)....

It appears to me that you need to get on topic and quit making a complete Jackass of yourself.....

And if you want to discuss VA BENEFITS, as opposed to the VA's illegal actions in denying veterans their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, maybe you should start a thread on that, before everyone decides that your inability to focus on the topic just might mean that YOU are mentally defective...
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OKTexas]

So now we have another scandal where the VA is screwing over the veterans they are supposed to be representing.

260,000 Veterans Have Lost Their Gun Rights Since December

The Second Amendment has been under attack for some time now in the united States, and there has been a relentless assault by the Obama administration at attacking the rights of the people to keep and bear arms. At the forefront of that attack has been America’s veterans, andaccording to a report, at least 260,000 veteranshad their gun rights revoked by the Department of Veteran’s Affairs since December 2015.

Guns in the News reports:

Last December the VA started reporting thousands of veterans to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check system, which is responsible for determining whether or not a potential gun buyer is legally allowed to own a firearm.

Specifically, they’ve been reporting veterans who have a fiduciary trustee to act on their behalf for legal or financial matters. All veterans with this arrangement are beingautomatically declared “mentally defective” according to Guns.com, and are having their second amendmentrights revoked. Over the past 4 months alone the VA has reported over 260,000 veterans to the NICS, which now accounts for 99% of all “mentally defective” claims to the database.

Of course, not all veterans with a fiduciary trustee are a danger to themselves or others, and unfortunately the VA hasn’t bothered to investigate any of these individuals to see if they should be reported. Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa has been questioning the VA on this matter, and hopes to put a stop to it. “The very agency created to serve them (veterans) is jeopardizing their Second Amendment rights through an erroneous reading of gun regulations. The VA’s careless approach to our veterans’ constitutional rights is disgraceful.”

This is not new and doesn’t seem to be going away. In February, the National RifleAssociation was attempting to discover which veterans this was happening to across the country.

Once again, Guns in the News reported:

As we have reported several times in the past (including here and here), the Veterans Administration (VA) has been reporting to the National InstantCriminal Background Check System (NICS) the identities of its beneficiaries who have been assigned a “fiduciary” to manage their benefits. The VA claims that such determinations constitute an “adjudication of mental defectiveness” under federal law, thereby prohibiting the beneficiary (presumptively for life) from acquiring or possessingfirearms.

I am a Vietnam Combat Vet and exposed to Agent Orange but never used any benefit from Uncle Sam. There are a few Vietnam Combat Vets who are off their rocker.

I'll agree, but that should be decided on a case-by-case basis.... NOT by a blanket denial of the very rights our vets fought to protect, based on some murky criteria.

It should be decided by a court, not some bureaucrat.

 

[g5000]

what makes a judge competent in deciding if someone is mentally deficient?

The same thing which makes a jury competent in deciding if a doctor committed malpractice.

Expert medical testimony and evidence.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Because the ONLY way to kill yourself is with a gun. You are such an idiot.

Two out of three suicides in the U.S. Involve a firearm

Problem with a gun vs other forms of suicide is that it only takes a split second to kill and you can't change your mind

So jumping from a tall building is any different?

yep. climbing to the top of a tall building, finding a place to jump, and then diing so is a lot more difficult than getting drunk and sad with a loaded gun

Look, I know I'm wasting my time here, you liberal idiots wouldn't ever admit you were wrong even if you were smart enough to realize you were wrong. But hey, I'm bored at the moment so here is a clue for you:

It doesn't matter if guns make it easier, the simple fact is that if someone is determined to kill themselves lack of a gun won't stop them. They do not kill themselves because they have a gun.

No charge for the education.

the simple fact is that people with access to guns kill themselves more frequently than those without. that's a fact, and nobody has been able to dispute it with anything other than their feelings

Because the ONLY way to kill yourself is with a gun. You are such an idiot.

Two out of three suicides in the U.S. Involve a firearm

Problem with a gun vs other forms of suicide is that it only takes a split second to kill and you can't change your mind

So jumping from a tall building is any different?

yep. climbing to the top of a tall building, finding a place to jump, and then diing so is a lot more difficult than getting drunk and sad with a loaded gun

Look, I know I'm wasting my time here, you liberal idiots wouldn't ever admit you were wrong even if you were smart enough to realize you were wrong. But hey, I'm bored at the moment so here is a clue for you:

It doesn't matter if guns make it easier, the simple fact is that if someone is determined to kill themselves lack of a gun won't stop them. They do not kill themselves because they have a gun.

No charge for the education.

the simple fact is that people with access to guns kill themselves more frequently than those without. that's a fact, and nobody has been able to dispute it with anything other than their feelings

No..that just means they bought a gun because it was the easy way and in no way indicates they wouldnt have jumped off a parking garage if they couldnt access a gun.