2200 Ukrainian troops and 800 mercenaries approx facing starvation in Mariupol.

[justoffal]

Having taken refuge in a massive steel plant what is left of the defenders of Mariupol need a release from Zalensky allowing them to surrender...or they will all certainly die. Instead Zalensky has ordered his troops to shoot any who try to surrender. Does this finally dispel in the minds of those who foolishly imagined even for a moment that this was a good guy versus a bad guy conflict? Now the Ukrainian soldiers are protected by the ROE....but not the mercs several hundred of whom are said to be American. They probably would be better off starving because they are totally dead meat one way or another. Sympathy for Ukraine is fostered in the weak minds of those who are slaves to Western media Hype.
This does not mean that Russia is morally superior however and I have never once made that claim. The thought that this was ever a struggle of Democracy versus Dictatorship is ludicrous. It was never about that for the entire 8 years that this conflict ( of which the invasion is simply the latest facet ) but always about expansionism. NATO has devolved into a supra-state entity that lacks only the ability to levy taxation....I expect to see that change rather soon. Russia, despite it's sinister methods actually has a more legitimate purpose....call it a foolish dream but Putin has reckoned correctly as far as his citizens feelings about the former Soviet Union. It all adds up to none of our business....but have a care
It was most likely NATO that sunk the Russian cruiser.... apparently an American Sub....you can expect some form of retaliation for that.

 

[shoshi]

How long can they hold out in steel factory? What if the factory is bombed to the ground? The fall of mariupol is coming but it may be the only major Ukrainian city to fall.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

This is a Stalingrad situation, and though it is cruel, there is a distinct possibility that history will remember this as Ukraine's own Stalingrad. Soviet troops during the battle were starving to death, freezing to death, dying and dropping like flies. Stalin ordered a "Not One Step Back" policy and ordered any shirkers to be shot. It was harsh, it was cruel, but eventually Soviet defenders were relieved and they won the battle, then the war.

In the end, do I really believe Zelensky gave that order? I highly doubt it. Those who defend Mariupol are fanatics and will fight to the last. Zelensky wouldn't have to give that order, the fanatics will shoot voluntarily.

 

[insolent imp]

Having taken refuge in a massive steel plant what is left of the defenders of Mariupol need a release from Zalensky allowing them to surrender...or they will all certainly die. Instead Zalensky has ordered his troops to shoot any who try to surrender. Does this finally dispel in the minds of those who foolishly imagined even for a moment that this was a good guy versus a bad guy conflict? Now the Ukrainian soldiers are protected by the ROE....but not the mercs several hundred of whom are said to be American. They probably would be better off starving because they are totally dead meat one way or another. Sympathy for Ukraine is fostered in the weak minds of those who are slaves to Western media Hype.
This does not mean that Russia is morally superior however and I have never once made that claim. The thought that this was ever a struggle of Democracy versus Dictatorship is ludicrous. It was never about that for the entire 8 years that this conflict ( of which the invasion is simply the latest facet ) but always about expansionism. NATO has devolved into a supra-state entity that lacks only the ability to levy taxation....I expect to see that change rather soon. Russia, despite it's sinister methods actually has a more legitimate purpose....call it a foolish dream but Putin has reckoned correctly as far as his citizens feelings about the former Soviet Union. It all adds up to none of our business....but have a care
It was most likely NATO that sunk the Russian cruiser.... apparently an American Sub....you can expect some form of retaliation for that.

Had the American mercenaries not stuck their nose in someone else's business they wouldn't be hungry. They made their bed now sleep in it.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

How long can they hold out in steel factory? What if the factory is bombed to the ground? The fall of mariupol is coming but it may be the only major Ukrainian city to fall.

The Barrikady Gun plant in Stalingrad was fought over for weeks. No Russians came in, and none left. The Germans bombed it, mortared it, shelled it, shot it, but the soviets didn't budge for months. The same happened at the Stalingrad grain elevator and the Tractor Factory. Defenders in bombed out rubble actually have a huge advantage over the attackers.

 

[jwoodie]

If they are surrounded with no means of rescue or escape, why don't they surrender? I didn't think martyrdom was popular outside of Arab countries.

 

[eagle1462010]

Russia says what regions of Ukraine it is going to take under full control

Russia is ready to declare a ceasefire at any moment for the evacuation of civilians from the territory of Azovstal steel works

english.pravda.ru

Courtesy of Badger from another thread...............As I said from the beginning........Putin intends to take ALL OF THE BLACK SEA PORT AREAS........

Odessa is next..........As he incircles the Dombas areas to cut off any resupply next...............

Why would the Ukraine Marines in Maiupol surrender when they have no doubt have heard that they will be tortured.........hands tied behind their back........and then shot in the back of the head?

Odessa has been preparing..........Hope enough arms are there to send droves of Russians to hell.

 

[justoffal]

Had the American mercenaries not stuck their nose in someone else's business they wouldn't be hungry. They made their bed now sleep in it.

Yeah...they are in big trouble...they can try surrender but I'm afraid that won't help them.

 

[shoshi]

If Russian army attacks Odessa they will have a long and bloody fight. The defenders of odessa have had much time to prepare.

 

[eagle1462010]

If they are surrounded with no means of rescue or escape, why don't they surrender? I didn't think martyrdom was popular outside of Arab countries.

LOL

In other places the word is out that they will be humiliated and executed anyway.........why surrender to that fate..........Whether those are completely true stories or not.......I believe they believe that...........

 

[eagle1462010]

Yeah...they are in big trouble...they can try surrender but I'm afraid that won't help them.

Someone who understands..................Why surrender to be killed anyway............

That is why Russia is FULL OF SHIT. My words not yours BTW

 

[justoffal]

Russia says what regions of Ukraine it is going to take under full control

Russia is ready to declare a ceasefire at any moment for the evacuation of civilians from the territory of Azovstal steel works

english.pravda.ru

Courtesy of Badger from another thread...............As I said from the beginning........Putin intends to take ALL OF THE BLACK SEA PORT AREAS........

Odessa is next..........As he incircles the Dombas areas to cut off any resupply next...............

Why would the Ukraine Marines in Maiupol surrender when they have no doubt have heard that they will be tortured.........hands tied behind their back........and then shot in the back of the head?

Odessa has been preparing..........Hope enough arms are there to send droves of Russians to hell.

Why would the Ukraine Marines in Maiupol surrender when they have no doubt have heard that they will be tortured.........hands tied behind their back........and then shot in the back of the head?

it's possible I suppose....the UKES are actually castrating Russian POWs....not a good idea for your own who get caught by the other side now is it?

 

[eagle1462010]

If Russian army attacks Odessa they will have a long and bloody fight. The defenders of odessa have had much time to prepare.

More weapons got in there too from what I've heard.........But Putin wants the BLACK SEA.........

 

[shoshi]

Why would the Ukraine Marines in Maiupol surrender when they have no doubt have heard that they will be tortured.........hands tied behind their back........and then shot in the back of the head?

it's possible I suppose....the UKES are actually castrating Russian POWs....not a good idea for your own who get caught by the other side now is it?

If that is true it is probably out of revenge for the rape of Ukrainian women

 

[eagle1462010]

Why would the Ukraine Marines in Maiupol surrender when they have no doubt have heard that they will be tortured.........hands tied behind their back........and then shot in the back of the head?

it's possible I suppose....the UKES are actually castrating Russian POWs....not a good idea for your own who get caught by the other side now is it?

Both sides have been accusing the other side of it...............Same as Bornia during the time of Clinton...............Serbs are VICIOUS..........always have been.........both sides.....

It was Russia who sent armies into Bosnia against US..........YES THE U.S.A. there who said stop or else...........When we blew the Serbs their to hell and back for killing every man women and child in some areas.......

Imagine that.

Putin will push on ODESSA............May his invasion be cursed.

 

[justoffal]

Both sides have been accusing the other side of it...............Same as Bornia during the time of Clinton...............Serbs are VICIOUS..........always have been.........both sides.....

It was Russia who sent armies into Bosnia against US..........YES THE U.S.A. there who said stop or else...........When we blew the Serbs their to hell and back for killing every man women and child in some areas.......

Imagine that.

Putin will push on ODESSA............May his invasion be cursed.

I wish the Zalensky would wake up and understand that NATO is not his ally.
NATO is basically the alter ego of the USA and the very antithesis of it. Working under the guise of protecting freedom NATO has slowly but surely morphed into a hungry expansionist beast possessed of its own determination. All that it lacks is a revenue base. I believe NATO sees Ukraine as a potential revenue base. This would make Zalensky an obstacle not an ally.

Jo

 

[Sunni Man]

Putin the master strategist, saw no logical reason to waste his soldiers lives on a few desperate holdouts, and directed the bulk of the Russian army to deploy to the eastern Donbas region for a major offensive. While leaving a small contingent to surround Mariupol and slowly bomb and starve the Ukrainian insurgents into either suicide or surrender.

 

[justoffal]

If that is true it is probably out of revenge for the rape of Ukrainian women

Makes a certain amount of sense.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

Putin the master tactician, saw no logical reason to waste his soldiers lives on a fews desperate holdouts, and directed the bulk of the Russian army to deploy to the eastern Donbas region for a major offensive. While leaving a small contingent to surround Mariupol and slowly bomb and starve the Ukrainian insurgents into suicide or surrender.

Yep

 

[eagle1462010]

I wish the Zalensky would wake up and understand that NATO is not his ally.
NATO is basically the alter ego of the USA and the very antithesis of it. Working under the guise of protecting freedom NATO has slowly but surely morphed into a hungry expansionist beast possessed of its own determination. All that it lacks is a revenue base. I believe NATO sees Ukraine as a potential revenue base. This would make Zalensky an obstacle not an ally.

Jo

That does what.............Putin has put a price on his head........Yet he remains...............He remains because he LIVES THERE...........and is under attack...

Which part of defending your own home don't you get..............They are fighting to the death against Putin because it is THEIR HOME.............If Zalensky dies today.........they will still fight. Even if they lose the whole countries.........years from now the relatives of the dead will come back to fight Russia..........this has happened throughout history.