15 year old has new "Pledge of Allegiance"

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Did you know that Jews and Muslims had their own schools also?
Black schools had a much higher and better education system than the ghetto schools of today and they had parents consisting of a Father and Mother before segregation and welfare. A combination that has totally devastated the black community.

It was never a political endorsement of religion by the state.
The USA government never had one religion run by the Government. Our Government included all dominations, unlike the British and all other Europeans Countries that supported one type of Christian religion only and no other.
Separation of Church and State is not in our Constitution.

You’ve got to be kidding.

You’re actually making the argument that African-American students in segregated schools in the 50s received a better education than students today, regardless the venue.

Wow, just, wow.

Separation of Church and State is not in our Constitution.

Of course it’s in the Constitution.

It can be found here:

[T]he First Amendment's language, properly interpreted, had erected a wall of separation between Church and State.

Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Education of School District

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Let's just forget about our National Anthem the Star Spangled Banner written in 1814.
That we had In God We Trust on all of our coins since 1864 and then was expanded to our paper money in 1956

That the bible was taught in our schools since before we became a nation and after we became a nation up until 1962.
The history of Christian education in America dates back to the 1700s with influence from Christian schools in England that were run by the Catholic church. Early settlers in America, which included the Quakers, Mennonites, Presbyterians, Catholics and Baptists educated their children in schools that were formed for the purposes of religious education. Over the years many Christian colleges, universities and private schools have emerged providing not just religious education, but also a diverse curriculum.

Ever since then our school system has gone down in the way our children have been educated.
The current US Department of Education was formally enacted into law in 1979 by signature of President Jimmy Carter. This was apparently a belated recognition of the already rapidly growing federalization of education.

". . . between 1967 and 1974, teacher training in the U.S. was covertly revamped through coordinated efforts of a small number of private foundations, select universities,global corporations, think tanks, and government agencies, all coordinated through the U.S. Office of Education and through key state education departments like those in California, Texas, Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York.

And black and white students were segregated in pubic schools until 1954.

Your point?

There were many practices condoned in the past that we now understand to be wrong, un-Constitutional, and in conflict with the fundamental principles of our Nation.

Prayer in public school is clearly offensive to the Constitution, it’s a manifestation of a political endorsement of religion by the state.

As Justice O’Connor observed:

Endorsement [of religion ] sends a message to nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.

Lynch v. Donnelly

Consequently, prayer in public schools sends the message to non-Christian students that they are outsiders as well, unwelcome and unwanted in the local community; it also sends the message to Christian students that they are entitled and worthy of inclusion in the community, where exclusion of the non-Christian is justified.

Indeed, prayer in public schools was used as a political weapon to compel adherence to Christian dogma, or to at least compel non-Christians to remain the silent minority, in the shadows and fringe of society.

Prayer in schools never did any of what you said. That is the left's propaganda and was never true. Nobody that went to school in the fifties ever had any problem with prayer in schools. Those that did not believe when the prayer was said, simply stayed silent when God was mentioned. Others used the name of their God. It was never a problem until an atheist that represented less than 0.7 % of the population started complaining about it.
When a Minority rules over the Majority that's a form of tyranny.
Now we have a silent majority who are in the shadows and are the fringe of society. Run by the very loud, bullying and intolerant minority.

Of course it did.

The Supreme Court struck down laws such as mandated prayer in public schools predicated on facts and evidence provided during trial and reviewed again during appeal. The facts documented the abusive nature of religion when conjoined with the state, and invalidated such laws accordingly as offensive to the Constitution, in violation of the original intent of the Framers.

Indeed, the First Amendment was specifically designed to protect citizens from the religious arrogance exhibited by a majority of Christians, during the Foundation Ear and today.

 

[peach174]

It seems that Daniel Patrick Moynihan was right all along.
That a Father and Mother are the backbone of the Family.
The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Summer 2005

 

[peach174]

And black and white students were segregated in pubic schools until 1954.

Your point?

There were many practices condoned in the past that we now understand to be wrong, un-Constitutional, and in conflict with the fundamental principles of our Nation.

Prayer in public school is clearly offensive to the Constitution, it’s a manifestation of a political endorsement of religion by the state.

As Justice O’Connor observed:



Consequently, prayer in public schools sends the message to non-Christian students that they are outsiders as well, unwelcome and unwanted in the local community; it also sends the message to Christian students that they are entitled and worthy of inclusion in the community, where exclusion of the non-Christian is justified.

Indeed, prayer in public schools was used as a political weapon to compel adherence to Christian dogma, or to at least compel non-Christians to remain the silent minority, in the shadows and fringe of society.

Prayer in schools never did any of what you said. That is the left's propaganda and was never true. Nobody that went to school in the fifties ever had any problem with prayer in schools. Those that did not believe when the prayer was said, simply stayed silent when God was mentioned. Others used the name of their God. It was never a problem until an atheist that represented less than 0.7 % of the population started complaining about it.
When a Minority rules over the Majority that's a form of tyranny.
Now we have a silent majority who are in the shadows and are the fringe of society. Run by the very loud, bullying and intolerant minority.

Of course it did.

The Supreme Court struck down laws such as mandated prayer in public schools predicated on facts and evidence provided during trial and reviewed again during appeal. The facts documented the abusive nature of religion when conjoined with the state, and invalidated such laws accordingly as offensive to the Constitution, in violation of the original intent of the Framers.

Indeed, the First Amendment was specifically designed to protect citizens from the religious arrogance exhibited by a majority of Christians, during the Foundation Ear and today.

More proof that the Federal Government should have never taken over the schools.
The idea of one size fits all has never worked.
Americans should be able to choose from many different types of schools for their children.
Whether or not they want their children in religious schools, or secular schools, home schooling, charter schools and ghetto children getting vouchers to go to any type of school that the parent chooses.

Did you read this from the link Lynch v Donnelly?
They disagreed as to the facts shown by the record and as to the proper application of the First Amendment's language to those facts.
That disagreement is still being argued over by the courts and the American people.

 

[beagle9]

Kid is an idiot.

Is that right? Why? Because he upsets your "progressive" sense of "values"???

The kid is a modern day prophet and you prove it.

Pretty sure no one is gonna call the Feds if you pray in school - and you shouldn't be praying in school, anyway.

Prayer as opposed to what now that is going on in schools ? Promoting homosexuality in school now, or all of the other liberal teachings, such as we all came from apes or walked up out of the sea and etc. but Lord no we better not allow the traditional Christian prayer eh ? It would be ok if we were consistent about schools and the curriculum going on in them, but in no way are there consistencies ever in this anymore, because the social agenda for some trumps everything and everyone, yet meanwhile they affectively shut down everyone else or anything else that they feel derails them and their quest. I am for schools teaching the basics (math, English, history, literature, language, arts, workplace skills, engineering, farming and so on and so forth, while leaving the rest to the parents, but for some reason it's not being done like this, and so why is that one wonders ?

We all know, but because we had our heads in the sand for so long now, and we have let the libs take over the federal government while we were distracted, we get what we all get as a result of.... B/

 

[Mr Natural]

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the
Bible.

Guns are illegal?

The Bible illegal?

Since when?

 

[zombiehunter696]

The anti-Christian fanatics hate freedom of expression: High School Track Team Disqualified For Religious Gesture

The guy who got disqualified even said his religious freedom wasn't violated.

 

[beagle9]

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the
Bible.

Guns are illegal?

The Bible illegal?

Since when?

Well yes certain types of guns are illegal, so to answer ((yes)) guns are illegal in that sence and you know this to be true, but why if in the hands of good people should any guns be illegal, otherwise if owned by those good people & responsibly so ? Oh that's right we must all go backwards because of all the blooming idiots being promoted in this nation now ((I forgot my bad)).

Might as well say that the Bible is illegal to, and this as far as the government goes when it comes to prayer in school or where the boyscouts and girl scouts use to have their recruiting partly done in schools but no more is that allowed ( I betcha if they allow the homosexuals in, the schools would be open arms to them again, even if it goes against the very principles and morals in which they are supposed to hold) or with the most recent attempts being found in the military cemetaries and on and on it all goes, but here you are acting as if you have no knowledge of these things ? If someone gets their way about making someone or many remove something or change something and/or restricts something they have held dear unto them, and a judge backs that someone up, then it becomes illegal at that point to leave it in place, act on it, practice it or to defy the order, and if they do they will be treated badly or even arrested.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Prayer in schools never did any of what you said. That is the left's propaganda and was never true. Nobody that went to school in the fifties ever had any problem with prayer in schools. Those that did not believe when the prayer was said, simply stayed silent when God was mentioned. Others used the name of their God. It was never a problem until an atheist that represented less than 0.7 % of the population started complaining about it.
When a Minority rules over the Majority that's a form of tyranny.
Now we have a silent majority who are in the shadows and are the fringe of society. Run by the very loud, bullying and intolerant minority.

Of course it did.

The Supreme Court struck down laws such as mandated prayer in public schools predicated on facts and evidence provided during trial and reviewed again during appeal. The facts documented the abusive nature of religion when conjoined with the state, and invalidated such laws accordingly as offensive to the Constitution, in violation of the original intent of the Framers.

Indeed, the First Amendment was specifically designed to protect citizens from the religious arrogance exhibited by a majority of Christians, during the Foundation Ear and today.

More proof that the Federal Government should have never taken over the schools.
The idea of one size fits all has never worked.
Americans should be able to choose from many different types of schools for their children.
Whether or not they want their children in religious schools, or secular schools, home schooling, charter schools and ghetto children getting vouchers to go to any type of school that the parent chooses.

Did you read this from the link Lynch v Donnelly?
They disagreed as to the facts shown by the record and as to the proper application of the First Amendment's language to those facts.
That disagreement is still being argued over by the courts and the American people.

Establishment Clause jurisprudence has nothing to do with any of the issues noted in your first paragraph, as separation of church and state apply to all public sector entities, not just schools.

Over the decades the Court has established a clear framework as to when religion is appropriate in the public sector and when it is not. It’s not difficult for law and policy makers to know where the boundaries exist. The conflicts arise when law and policy makers willfully violate those boundaries in an attempt to realize some perceived partisan advantage, excluding religious minorities from the political process.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Whomever ‘wrote’ the ‘pledge’ succeeded in only exhibiting his ignorance of the Constitution.

If actually written by a 15-year-old, let’s hope he’s given an opportunity to learn the truth and facts.

That poem has "rebel white trash" written between every line.

 

[oldfart]

More proof that the Federal Government should have never taken over the schools.
The idea of one size fits all has never worked.
Americans should be able to choose from many different types of schools for their children.
Whether or not they want their children in religious schools, or secular schools, home schooling, charter schools and ghetto children getting vouchers to go to any type of school that the parent chooses.

Did you read this from the link Lynch v Donnelly?
They disagreed as to the facts shown by the record and as to the proper application of the First Amendment's language to those facts.
That disagreement is still being argued over by the courts and the American people.

I think you should hang it up for now. Your posts are becoming incoherent and you are repeating yourself while being non-responsive to other posts. Take a break.

 

[oldfart]

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the
Bible.

Guns are illegal?

The Bible illegal?

Since when?

Well yes certain types of guns are illegal, so to answer ((yes)) guns are illegal in that sence and you know this to be true, but why if in the hands of good people should any guns be illegal, otherwise if owned by those good people & responsibly so ? Oh that's right we must all go backwards because of all the blooming idiots being promoted in this nation now ((I forgot my bad)).

Might as well say that the Bible is illegal to, and this as far as the government goes when it comes to prayer in school or where the boyscouts and girl scouts use to have their recruiting partly done in schools but no more is that allowed ( I betcha if they allow the homosexuals in, the schools would be open arms to them again, even if it goes against the very principles and morals in which they are supposed to hold) or with the most recent attempts being found in the military cemetaries and on and on it all goes, but here you are acting as if you have no knowledge of these things ? If someone gets their way about making someone or many remove something or change something and/or restricts something they have held dear unto them, and a judge backs that someone up, then it becomes illegal at that point to leave it in place, act on it, practice it or to defy the order, and if they do they will be treated badly or even arrested

This is the CDZ. Your language is getting intemperate. At least make an attempt to comply with the standards for this forum.

 

[PaulS1950]

1. Any student can pray in any public school in the USA. The faculty cannot lead a prayer in the schools.

2. No student or faculty can "preach" (any religion) in any public school in the USA.

3. Homosexuality is not supported in any public school in the USA. It is discussed along with heterasexual relationships and a host of other sexually related topics.

4.The two biggest subjects taught in schools today are:
1. teamwork
2. conflict resolution.

This country has never been a "Christian Nation" as proved by the "Treaty of Tripoly" in the lat 1700s

 

[RandallFlagg]

1. Any student can pray in any public school in the USA. The faculty cannot lead a prayer in the schools.

2. No student or faculty can "preach" (any religion) in any public school in the USA.

3. Homosexuality is not supported in any public school in the USA. It is discussed along with heterasexual relationships and a host of other sexually related topics.

4.The two biggest subjects taught in schools today are:
1. teamwork
2. conflict resolution.

This country has never been a "Christian Nation" as proved by the "Treaty of Tripoly" in the lat 1700s

So, basically, your "argument" is that a treaty between the US and the muslim pirates of the African Coast is your "proof". You folks get better each day....

While I absolutely agree that the United States WAS NOT founded as a "Christian" nation, it WAS founded on Judeo-Christian principles. My God man, have you never read the founding documents?

 

[Avorysuds]

Sounds like a stupid fucking kid who was brought up sheltered. I'd rather not take a pledge of Alleghenies where I randomly swear myself to a flag or a made up god. I love our constitution and the constitution is anti religious rule.

 

[Avorysuds]

1. Any student can pray in any public school in the USA. The faculty cannot lead a prayer in the schools.

2. No student or faculty can "preach" (any religion) in any public school in the USA.

3. Homosexuality is not supported in any public school in the USA. It is discussed along with heterasexual relationships and a host of other sexually related topics.

4.The two biggest subjects taught in schools today are:
1. teamwork
2. conflict resolution.

This country has never been a "Christian Nation" as proved by the "Treaty of Tripoly" in the lat 1700s

So, basically, your "argument" is that a treaty between the US and the muslim pirates of the African Coast is your "proof". You folks get better each day....

While I absolutely agree that the United States WAS NOT founded as a "Christian" nation, it WAS founded on Judeo-Christian principles. My God man, have you never read the founding documents?

The question now becomes what were these "Judeo-Christian principles" and can people have these principles without belonging to a religion or do they have a patent on morels?

 

[RandallFlagg]

1. Any student can pray in any public school in the USA. The faculty cannot lead a prayer in the schools.

2. No student or faculty can "preach" (any religion) in any public school in the USA.

3. Homosexuality is not supported in any public school in the USA. It is discussed along with heterasexual relationships and a host of other sexually related topics.

4.The two biggest subjects taught in schools today are:
1. teamwork
2. conflict resolution.

This country has never been a "Christian Nation" as proved by the "Treaty of Tripoly" in the lat 1700s

So, basically, your "argument" is that a treaty between the US and the muslim pirates of the African Coast is your "proof". You folks get better each day....

While I absolutely agree that the United States WAS NOT founded as a "Christian" nation, it WAS founded on Judeo-Christian principles. My God man, have you never read the founding documents?

The question now becomes what were these "Judeo-Christian principles" and can people have these principles without belonging to a religion or do they have a patent on morels?

Well, since you insisted......

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

"all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...."

He also wrote:

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" He also wrote: "Almighty God hath created the mind free. ... All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens...are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion..."

He also wrote:

"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Our Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

President George Washington said this when proclaiming our National Thanksgiving Holiday:

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God ...."

John Adams wrote this:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Later, Abraham Lincoln wrote these words about the Bible:

"In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong."

He also spoke these words at the Gettysburg Address:

"...that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

These are just a few....I could go on for hours, but it might tax you a tad too much....

Additionally, it's "MORALS" not "MORELS" (I think the latter is actually mushrooms)

 

[Againsheila]

Kid is an idiot.

Is that right? Why? Because he upsets your "progressive" sense of "values"???

The kid is a modern day prophet and you prove it.

Pretty sure no one is gonna call the Feds if you pray in school - and you shouldn't be praying in school, anyway.

Just a suggestion, try reading what you write, okay? I mean, contradicting yourself in the same sentence?

 

[PaulS1950]

The Thanksgiving holiday was established in 1863 by President Lincoln - not Washington as he died in 1753.
You are very selective in where you begin and end your quotes on top of the error in dates. George Washington was a Mason, Thomas Jefferson was a Deist and Lincoln was never a member of any church. He was considered a deist but never actually said what his beliefs were. Does that sound like the founders of a Christian nation?

 

[RandallFlagg]

The Thanksgiving holiday was established in 1863 by President Lincoln - not Washington as he died in 1753.
You are very selective in where you begin and end your quotes on top of the error in dates. George Washington was a Mason, Thomas Jefferson was a Deist and Lincoln was never a member of any church. He was considered a deist but never actually said what his beliefs were. Does that sound like the founders of a Christian nation?

Look, if you're not even going to ATTEMPT to get your facts straight, there's not much anyone can do for you. Take a moment and actually LEARN something, will you? It will do you no harm.....

First Thanksgiving Proclamation-1789


George Washington died December 14, 1799

Oh, and yes, they sound EXACTLY like the founders of a "Judeo-Christian based" nation.