12 Angry Men

[Tommy Tainant]

Easily one of the best movies ever made. And it's easy to see how the uber conservatives in the room are driven by emotion, racism, laziness.

I was foreman on a jury a while back and all but two of the people were reasonable. One woman was so angry the judge wouldn't excuse her from jury duty she told us when we got in the jury room she'd vote not guilty no matter what. It turns out that after a couple days of deliberations she also was swayed to consider the evidence rather than her emotion. The defendant was found guilty of one charge and innocent of the other though both decisions at first were split.

12 Angry Men does a great job of portraying 'reasonable doubt'. The part where E.G. Marshall who was unswayable but when asked if the woman would go to bed with her glasses on responded "no, no one wears glasses to be. I'm convinced".

And notice Henry Fonda says throughout the movie that he doesn't know if the kid is guilty. He wasn't 100% sure of his own opinion either. The whole thing was to show that the standard of 'reasonable doubt' is what should be the deciding factor.

People really resent jury duty over here, never been called myself. Touch wood.

I actually enjoyed it. It is a lot like you see on tv or in movies. After the verdict a few of us stayed behind to talk with both lawyers and have them ask us questions which I've never seen before. The defense told me that he asked the judge to remove me after some comments I made in the courtroom to clarify something someone else had said on the jury. I was like "what do you want, we aren't pros here most of us have never done this".

I recommend to anyone to do it at least once.

I do not support Trial By Jury for the below reason you give:

"I was like "what do you want, we aren't pros here most of us have never done this".

All trials should be by Judicial Panel comprised of legal professionals and not lay persons who have no education or training in legal situations.

Magna Carta ?

I'm sorry I am not that up on a lot of the Magna Carta, are you saying that it ensures Trial By Jury or what?

Yes. It is there to curb the power of the state.

 

[fncceo]

Watched this yesterday and its such a great movie. You can enjoy it as a drama but I think it is also a very political film that could be remade today.

Minority kid from a rough part of town is on trial for killing his father.

He gets zero help from the public defender and so the jury meet to decide his fate.

The conservative majority in the room want to shoot the kid before they fry him. It looks grim for the youngster but one man , Henry Fonda, stands in his corner and fights his cause.

Fonda is the archetypal Liberal. Educated,measured and determined to examine the facts of the case.
His opponents, were rough,stupid and violent racists who would probably be Trump supporters today.

Fonda destroys their arguments ,primarily because he is brighter than they are. Those jurymen in the middle were more inclined to listen to his arguments than those put forward by the trumptards.

Ultimately good triumphs over evil because ,deep down, people are good and messages of hate only have a limited shelf life.

Trump and all his alt right, KKK trash are just a blip,not the future.

Great movie - America at its best.

Is it legal in the UK to watch a movie that doesn’t star Michael Caine?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Watched this yesterday and its such a great movie. You can enjoy it as a drama but I think it is also a very political film that could be remade today.

Minority kid from a rough part of town is on trial for killing his father.

He gets zero help from the public defender and so the jury meet to decide his fate.

The conservative majority in the room want to shoot the kid before they fry him. It looks grim for the youngster but one man , Henry Fonda, stands in his corner and fights his cause.

Fonda is the archetypal Liberal. Educated,measured and determined to examine the facts of the case.
His opponents, were rough,stupid and violent racists who would probably be Trump supporters today.

Fonda destroys their arguments ,primarily because he is brighter than they are. Those jurymen in the middle were more inclined to listen to his arguments than those put forward by the trumptards.

Ultimately good triumphs over evil because ,deep down, people are good and messages of hate only have a limited shelf life.

Trump and all his alt right, KKK trash are just a blip,not the future.

Great movie - America at its best.

Is it legal in the UK to watch a movie that doesn’t star Michael Caine?

He was juror #6

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Watched this yesterday and its such a great movie. You can enjoy it as a drama but I think it is also a very political film that could be remade today.

Minority kid from a rough part of town is on trial for killing his father.

He gets zero help from the public defender and so the jury meet to decide his fate.

The conservative majority in the room want to shoot the kid before they fry him. It looks grim for the youngster but one man , Henry Fonda, stands in his corner and fights his cause.

Fonda is the archetypal Liberal. Educated,measured and determined to examine the facts of the case.
His opponents, were rough,stupid and violent racists who would probably be Trump supporters today.

Fonda destroys their arguments ,primarily because he is brighter than they are. Those jurymen in the middle were more inclined to listen to his arguments than those put forward by the trumptards.

Ultimately good triumphs over evil because ,deep down, people are good and messages of hate only have a limited shelf life.

Trump and all his alt right, KKK trash are just a blip,not the future.

Great movie - America at its best.

Is it legal in the UK to watch a movie that doesn’t star Michael Caine?

Michael Caine has made some very good films, two of my favourites "The Ipcress File" made in 1965 and "Get Carter" made in 1971 I do not like when they re make films that the original is already great they did this with "Get Carter" and as if that was not horrific enough they had Sylvester Stallone as Jack Carter whoever had the idea to re make the film should be taken out and shot.

The Ipcress File (film) - Wikipedia

Get Carter - Wikipedia

 

[rightwinger]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

 

[Skull Pilot]

Thanks for reminding me I have fucking jury duty in March.

You all might like it and think you're being a good citizen and all that shit but I realize it's a complete waste of time. I would be better serving the community by tending to my business and the people we serve than wasting my time on a trial for some piece of shit criminal.

 

[Skull Pilot]

At this point in time I think we should move to a professional jury system. With all the technological and scientific means of collecting and analyzing evidence I think it would be prudent to have people who can actually understand the law and the science rather than a dozen people who can't sit on a jury

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

 

[Meathead]

Except for gender and race, today we would call them an inner-city jury, like the one that found OJ not guilty.

 

[rightwinger]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

 

[Coyote]

Watched this yesterday and its such a great movie. You can enjoy it as a drama but I think it is also a very political film that could be remade today.

Minority kid from a rough part of town is on trial for killing his father.

He gets zero help from the public defender and so the jury meet to decide his fate.

The conservative majority in the room want to shoot the kid before they fry him. It looks grim for the youngster but one man , Henry Fonda, stands in his corner and fights his cause.

Fonda is the archetypal Liberal. Educated,measured and determined to examine the facts of the case.
His opponents, were rough,stupid and violent racists who would probably be Trump supporters today.

Fonda destroys their arguments ,primarily because he is brighter than they are. Those jurymen in the middle were more inclined to listen to his arguments than those put forward by the trumptards.

Ultimately good triumphs over evil because ,deep down, people are good and messages of hate only have a limited shelf life.

Trump and all his alt right, KKK trash are just a blip,not the future.

Great movie - America at its best.

It is a brilliant film and one of Sidney Lumet's best films along with "Fail Safe" made in 1964 again with Henry Fonda and "Serpico" made in 1973 and "Dog Day Afternoon" made in 1975 both with Al Pacino. In "12 Angry Men" Lee J. Cobb and E. G. Marshall are also excellent.

I agree with Jackson, there was no need for you to indulge in your political rant and your Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I saw Failsafe, back to back with Dr. Strangeglove....excellent movies.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

I have never heard of that programme or Brady Bunch, I'll have to Google.

 

[rightwinger]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

I have never heard of that programme or Brady Bunch, I'll have to Google.

You never heard of The Brady Bunch?

What country are you from?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Watched this yesterday and its such a great movie. You can enjoy it as a drama but I think it is also a very political film that could be remade today.

Minority kid from a rough part of town is on trial for killing his father.

He gets zero help from the public defender and so the jury meet to decide his fate.

The conservative majority in the room want to shoot the kid before they fry him. It looks grim for the youngster but one man , Henry Fonda, stands in his corner and fights his cause.

Fonda is the archetypal Liberal. Educated,measured and determined to examine the facts of the case.
His opponents, were rough,stupid and violent racists who would probably be Trump supporters today.

Fonda destroys their arguments ,primarily because he is brighter than they are. Those jurymen in the middle were more inclined to listen to his arguments than those put forward by the trumptards.

Ultimately good triumphs over evil because ,deep down, people are good and messages of hate only have a limited shelf life.

Trump and all his alt right, KKK trash are just a blip,not the future.

Great movie - America at its best.

It is a brilliant film and one of Sidney Lumet's best films along with "Fail Safe" made in 1964 again with Henry Fonda and "Serpico" made in 1973 and "Dog Day Afternoon" made in 1975 both with Al Pacino. In "12 Angry Men" Lee J. Cobb and E. G. Marshall are also excellent.

I agree with Jackson, there was no need for you to indulge in your political rant and your Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I saw Failsafe, back to back with Dr. Strangeglove....excellent movies.

Here is the original trailer for "Fail Safe" made in 1964 and directed by Sidney Lumet and featuring Henry Fonda, Walter Matthau, Dan O'Herlihy and Larry Hagman.

The situation and end scenario in this film is something we ALL should be doing our best to avoid happening, only the insane want WWIII and only the insane want Nuclear War because NOBODY is coming out of that alive.



"Fail Safe" the synopsis:

"During a VIP visit to the headquarters of the Strategic Air Command (SAC), at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska, the Air Force's early warning radar indicates that an unidentified aircraft has intruded into American airspace. Shortly after, the "intruder" is identified as an off-course civilian airliner and the alert is cancelled, but a computer error causes one American bomber group to receive orders for an attack on Moscow. Attempts to rescind this order fail because a new Soviet countermeasure jams American radio communications. With his orders apparently confirmed, Colonel Jack Grady (Edward Binns), the US bomber group's commander, commands the group to continue to their target.

The President of the United States (Henry Fonda) and his advisers attempt to recall the group or shoot them down. Communications are opened with the Soviet Chairman in which mistakes on both sides (the orders to the American bombers, and the Soviet jamming) are acknowledged. The jamming ceases, but the crew follows their training in dismissing the counter-orders they receive as a Soviet ruse.

The President struggles to find a resolution that will stop the Soviet Union from counterattacking; if he fails, an all-out nuclear holocaust will be unavoidable. He offers to sacrifice an American target to appease the Soviets, and he orders an American bomber towards New York City. The President's advisers in the Pentagon discover that in doing so, the President is sacrificing the First Lady, who is visiting New York City.

A single American bomber reaches Moscow and destroys it. The President orders General Black (Dan O'Herlihy), whose wife and children live in New York, to make a corresponding nuclear attack on New York, using the Empire State Building as ground zero. After releasing the bombs, Black kills himself. The last moments of the film show images of people in New York going about their daily lives, unaware of the coming disaster."

Fail Safe (1964 film) - Wikipedia

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

I have never heard of that programme or Brady Bunch, I'll have to Google.

You never heard of The Brady Bunch?

What country are you from?

No never have heard of. Austria, we never as I can remember have had any of those programmes imported to us, I always have to Google many American programmes that people mention at this forum also many British ones but especially old things.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

I have never heard of that programme or Brady Bunch, I'll have to Google.

You never heard of The Brady Bunch?

What country are you from?

Here is "The Brady Bunch" I also reading the cast have never heard of any of the actors, I will often hear of an actor and know them from a film but this cast I hear of nobody.

The Brady Bunch - Wikipedia

 

[rightwinger]

Fonda was great as the lone juror

I also like the old man

The old man was an actor called Joseph Sweeney he didn't make many films, he mainly was a stage actor, like one of my favourite actresses and people Tallulah Bankhead didn't make many films but did THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of plays on stage.

The film originally was on American television as a play not with Henry Fonda though it was the actor Robert Cummings, a very good actor at this moment I can only think of one film he was in Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M For Murder" made in 1954 but he made other films, he might have been good for the television play but I am not sure he would have been as good as Henry Fonda for the part of Juror 8 in the film so whoever cast the film made the correct choice.

I remember Bob Cummings on his TV show Love That Bob with Schultzy (Alice from Brady Bunch) and a Basset Hound

I have never heard of that programme or Brady Bunch, I'll have to Google.

You never heard of The Brady Bunch?

What country are you from?

No never have heard of. Austria, we never as I can remember have had any of those programmes imported to us, I always have to Google many American programmes that people mention at this forum also many British ones but especially old things.

Austria?
You must have really enjoyed Crocodile Dundee

 

[Tommy Tainant]

At this point in time I think we should move to a professional jury system. With all the technological and scientific means of collecting and analyzing evidence I think it would be prudent to have people who can actually understand the law and the science rather than a dozen people who can't sit on a jury

Its the thin end of the wedge though. The argument would be that if you aint bright enough to sit on a jury then how can you be bright enough to vote ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

At this point in time I think we should move to a professional jury system. With all the technological and scientific means of collecting and analyzing evidence I think it would be prudent to have people who can actually understand the law and the science rather than a dozen people who can't sit on a jury

Its the thin end of the wedge though. The argument would be that if you aint bright enough to sit on a jury then how can you be bright enough to vote ?

Voting for a politician does not have the same consequences as sitting on a jury and deciding the fate of a person

 

[P F Tinmore]

People really resent jury duty over here, never been called myself. Touch wood.

I actually enjoyed it. It is a lot like you see on tv or in movies. After the verdict a few of us stayed behind to talk with both lawyers and have them ask us questions which I've never seen before. The defense told me that he asked the judge to remove me after some comments I made in the courtroom to clarify something someone else had said on the jury. I was like "what do you want, we aren't pros here most of us have never done this".

I recommend to anyone to do it at least once.

I do not support Trial By Jury for the below reason you give:

"I was like "what do you want, we aren't pros here most of us have never done this".

All trials should be by Judicial Panel comprised of legal professionals and not lay persons who have no education or training in legal situations.

Magna Carta ?

I'm sorry I am not that up on a lot of the Magna Carta, are you saying that it ensures Trial By Jury or what?

Yes. It is there to curb the power of the state.

Indeed, the power to convict should not be the same power that can accuse.

Virtually all of our local judges are former prosecutors. There is a separation of powers but not a separation of attitude.