10 rules for dealing with the police

[Father Time]

Regarding police knocking on your door, I heard that if you refuse to let them in but they see something bad when you open the door then they immediately get to come in.

Is that true?

Yes.

Ok but if they knock on your door without a warrant you can refuse to let them in right?

If they are responding to a noise complaint you get to refuse to let them in right?

 

[JBeukema]

I'm curious...

Let us say I'm a guest at a party EZ is hosting and I let the police in. Does that constitute legal admission to enter the premise, if it's not my home and I'm not authorized to let anyone on the premises? After all, I can't let them into my neighbor's house just because I'm on the porch, in the yard, or on the sidewalk, can I? Dose my being five feet over, on the other side of the door- even if the homeowner did not herself give me permission to even be there, let alone to let any one in, give me legal authority to let the police on the premises?

 

[Father Time]

I'm curious...

Let us say I'm a guest at a party EX is hosting and I let the police in. Does that constitute legal admission to enter the premise, if it;s not my home and I'm not authorized to let anyone on the premises? After all, I can't let them into my neighbor's house just because I'm on the porch, in the yard, or on the sidewalk, can I? Doe my being five feet over, on the other side of the door- even if the homeowner did not herself give me permission to even be there, let alone to let any one in, give me legal authority to let the police on the premises?

To add onto JB's question, let's say the police knock on the door and the owner left to buy soda (but is coming back). Does anyone have authority to let the police in?

 

[asterism]

I'm curious...

Let us say I'm a guest at a party EZ is hosting and I let the police in. Does that constitute legal admission to enter the premise, if it's not my home and I'm not authorized to let anyone on the premises? After all, I can't let them into my neighbor's house just because I'm on the porch, in the yard, or on the sidewalk, can I? Dose my being five feet over, on the other side of the door- even if the homeowner did not herself give me permission to even be there, let alone to let any one in, give me legal authority to let the police on the premises?

Yes.

You have control over the entry, the owner ceded it to you when he allowed you to be able to open the door.

 

[asterism]

I'm curious...

Let us say I'm a guest at a party EX is hosting and I let the police in. Does that constitute legal admission to enter the premise, if it;s not my home and I'm not authorized to let anyone on the premises? After all, I can't let them into my neighbor's house just because I'm on the porch, in the yard, or on the sidewalk, can I? Doe my being five feet over, on the other side of the door- even if the homeowner did not herself give me permission to even be there, let alone to let any one in, give me legal authority to let the police on the premises?

To add onto JB's question, let's say the police knock on the door and the owner left to buy soda (but is coming back). Does anyone have authority to let the police in?

Anyone inside that the owner leaves in position to open the door has the authority to let the police in. If you don't want your drunk buddies giving away your rights, don't let them control the door.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm curious...

Let us say I'm a guest at a party EZ is hosting and I let the police in. Does that constitute legal admission to enter the premise, if it's not my home and I'm not authorized to let anyone on the premises? After all, I can't let them into my neighbor's house just because I'm on the porch, in the yard, or on the sidewalk, can I? Dose my being five feet over, on the other side of the door- even if the homeowner did not herself give me permission to even be there, let alone to let any one in, give me legal authority to let the police on the premises?

Yes.

You have control over the entry, the owner ceded it to you when he allowed you to be able to open the door.

Any time I leave my door unlocked, have I not made anyone able to open the door?

Also, she never gave me permission to let anyone else in her home. She might not even know I myself was let in while she went to get pizza.

 

[George Costanza]

Regarding police knocking on your door, I heard that if you refuse to let them in but they see something bad when you open the door then they immediately get to come in.

Is that true?

Yes.

Ok but if they knock on your door without a warrant you can refuse to let them in right?

If they are responding to a noise complaint you get to refuse to let them in right?

There are generally three ways police can enter a private residence: (1) search warrant, (2) consent or (3) exigent circumstances - pursuing a fleeing suspect, person inside in possible danger, etc.

Yes, you can refuse police entry if they don't have a warrant, provided exigent circumstances do not exist.

Also - police are not allowed to tell you: "If you don't let us in, we will simply go get a search warrant." They may or may not be able to get a search warrant. They are not allowed to imply that getting a search warrant is a done deal, so you might as well just let them in without delaying things. They can say: "If you don't let us in, we will secure this location and APPLY FOR a search warrant," but they cannot force entry by leading the homeowner to believe that the issuance of a search warrant is inevitable.

Whether you can refuse entry when they come on a noise complaint depends of the particular circumstances. Generally, I think you can refuse entry if all they are doing is investigating a noise complaint, PROVIDED the noise has CEASED. If it is a big party, they probably can enter for the purpose of informing everyone at the party if they don't shut up, they will come back and shut them down. On the other hand, if the noise is only a loud stereo which has been turned off, that can be handled at the door; I don't think they can come into the house on those facts alone, absent a search warrant or consent.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'd say #10 is playing with fire if you have kids though, because the Police Officer can call Child Services and they do not need a warrant to enter your house. The Child Services investigator can request the Officer escort her in "for safety" and then the Police Officer is in your house and free to look around for anything that might be considered probable cause for search. Then they can get a warrant. FYI, a "rumor" that illegal firearms is justification to get a warrant if the Police Officer sees a gun safe.

If the cop's goal is to take a look around and/or harass you they can do it quite legally.

THIS is a violation of our civil liberties right there. Those bastards get to do an end run on proper procedure because they're not cops and 'children are involved'. Disgusting. They should be forced to get warrants too.

 

[Tank]

This is some REALLY good stuff! I encourage all of our law and order folks to take a look at this - especially the first one - so you will have an idea of how your "nice" police officers handle things when they are dealing with someone other than a WASP.

Yes. because WASP on WASP crime has become a epidemic.

 

[asterism]

I'd say #10 is playing with fire if you have kids though, because the Police Officer can call Child Services and they do not need a warrant to enter your house. The Child Services investigator can request the Officer escort her in "for safety" and then the Police Officer is in your house and free to look around for anything that might be considered probable cause for search. Then they can get a warrant. FYI, a "rumor" that illegal firearms is justification to get a warrant if the Police Officer sees a gun safe.

If the cop's goal is to take a look around and/or harass you they can do it quite legally.

THIS is a violation of our civil liberties right there. Those bastards get to do an end run on proper procedure because they're not cops and 'children are involved'. Disgusting. They should be forced to get warrants too.

Child Services is an administrative process, not law enforcement.

Neat how that works, huh?

 

[Big Fitz]

They're not as bad as health officials though. Oh you're sick? Quarantine. You don't like that? You're going to be forcibly quarantined in a time of emergency in a camp if we want to.

 

[ConHog]

No 5 is very important. Police rely heavily upon the "consensual encounter," where they walk up to a person on the street or in a parked car. It always starts out the same way: "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?" Very quickly, though, it advances to: "You have anything illegal on your person or in your car?" And it goes downhill from there (for you).

Your response to the initial, "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?", should be: "Just fine, officer. And now, if you will excuse me, I will be on my way." And you promptly proceed to GO on your way. If the friendly officer says WORD ONE to you after that, your next statement should be:
"Officer, am I free to leave or am I being detained?" You can't lose that one. If you are free to leave, you are free to leave - and should. If you are not free to leave, then you are being detained, and there can be no further conversation absent a Miranda warning. If that's the case, do not waive your Miranda rights and refuse to talk to the officer. If he detains you and does not give your Miranda rights, don't talk to him anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

 

[ConHog]

These rules could be summed up in one;
Treat policemen like you want to be treated while you do your job.

Make that 2
When they walk up to you or knock on your door cops are not your friend.

Really? Tell that to the woman who was saved at minimum a severe beating because LEO walked up to her door as her boyfriend or whatever was kicking her ass.

 

[ConHog]

Regarding police knocking on your door, I heard that if you refuse to let them in but they see something bad when you open the door then they immediately get to come in.

Is that true?

Yes.

Ok but if they knock on your door without a warrant you can refuse to let them in right?

If they are responding to a noise complaint you get to refuse to let them in right?

It get's a bit fuzzy here. No you do not have to let them in the house, BUT if they have a complain about you, you can't refuse to open the door and talk to them. IF you do that, you give them probable cause to force their way in. The best bet is to come out too them. I know Bones said something about LEO in her area lulling people outside and then arresting them for public intox, but I find that to be a baseless claim. No DA is going to press charges in that situation, unless there is a good reason, IE you were drunk and came out and shoved a LEO, or something like that. Merely being drunk on your porch is not a crime. Oh and do NOT carry your drink out with you.

MOST of the time when people have a bad encounter with LEO it is because THEY did something wrong. Just like with the TSA, follow the damn rules and most of the time you will have no problem. Same with LEO, know your rights, and by all means exercise them, but use some fucking common sense to and don't do stupid things just assuming that the LEO shouldn't do anything about it.

 

[ConHog]

I'd say #10 is playing with fire if you have kids though, because the Police Officer can call Child Services and they do not need a warrant to enter your house. The Child Services investigator can request the Officer escort her in "for safety" and then the Police Officer is in your house and free to look around for anything that might be considered probable cause for search. Then they can get a warrant. FYI, a "rumor" that illegal firearms is justification to get a warrant if the Police Officer sees a gun safe.

If the cop's goal is to take a look around and/or harass you they can do it quite legally.

THIS is a violation of our civil liberties right there. Those bastards get to do an end run on proper procedure because they're not cops and 'children are involved'. Disgusting. They should be forced to get warrants too.

How many instances of the police using child services to gain entry to a house when the children of said home were in no danger do you think there are? Probably none. Good grief, hysterical much?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No 5 is very important. Police rely heavily upon the "consensual encounter," where they walk up to a person on the street or in a parked car. It always starts out the same way: "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?" Very quickly, though, it advances to: "You have anything illegal on your person or in your car?" And it goes downhill from there (for you).

Your response to the initial, "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?", should be: "Just fine, officer. And now, if you will excuse me, I will be on my way." And you promptly proceed to GO on your way. If the friendly officer says WORD ONE to you after that, your next statement should be:
"Officer, am I free to leave or am I being detained?" You can't lose that one. If you are free to leave, you are free to leave - and should. If you are not free to leave, then you are being detained, and there can be no further conversation absent a Miranda warning. If that's the case, do not waive your Miranda rights and refuse to talk to the officer. If he detains you and does not give your Miranda rights, don't talk to him anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes.

Ok but if they knock on your door without a warrant you can refuse to let them in right?

If they are responding to a noise complaint you get to refuse to let them in right?

It get's a bit fuzzy here. No you do not have to let them in the house, BUT if they have a complain about you, you can't refuse to open the door and talk to them. IF you do that, you give them probable cause to force their way in. The best bet is to come out too them. I know Bones said something about LEO in her area lulling people outside and then arresting them for public intox, but I find that to be a baseless claim. No DA is going to press charges in that situation, unless there is a good reason, IE you were drunk and came out and shoved a LEO, or something like that. Merely being drunk on your porch is not a crime. Oh and do NOT carry your drink out with you.

MOST of the time when people have a bad encounter with LEO it is because THEY did something wrong. Just like with the TSA, follow the damn rules and most of the time you will have no problem. Same with LEO, know your rights, and by all means exercise them, but use some fucking common sense to and don't do stupid things just assuming that the LEO shouldn't do anything about it.

Most of the time people have a bad encounter with a LEO it is because the LEO has a hair up his ass.

 

[JBeukema]

No 5 is very important. Police rely heavily upon the "consensual encounter," where they walk up to a person on the street or in a parked car. It always starts out the same way: "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?" Very quickly, though, it advances to: "You have anything illegal on your person or in your car?" And it goes downhill from there (for you).

Your response to the initial, "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?", should be: "Just fine, officer. And now, if you will excuse me, I will be on my way." And you promptly proceed to GO on your way. If the friendly officer says WORD ONE to you after that, your next statement should be:
"Officer, am I free to leave or am I being detained?" You can't lose that one. If you are free to leave, you are free to leave - and should. If you are not free to leave, then you are being detained, and there can be no further conversation absent a Miranda warning. If that's the case, do not waive your Miranda rights and refuse to talk to the officer. If he detains you and does not give your Miranda rights, don't talk to him anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

 

[ConHog]

No 5 is very important. Police rely heavily upon the "consensual encounter," where they walk up to a person on the street or in a parked car. It always starts out the same way: "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?" Very quickly, though, it advances to: "You have anything illegal on your person or in your car?" And it goes downhill from there (for you).

Your response to the initial, "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?", should be: "Just fine, officer. And now, if you will excuse me, I will be on my way." And you promptly proceed to GO on your way. If the friendly officer says WORD ONE to you after that, your next statement should be:
"Officer, am I free to leave or am I being detained?" You can't lose that one. If you are free to leave, you are free to leave - and should. If you are not free to leave, then you are being detained, and there can be no further conversation absent a Miranda warning. If that's the case, do not waive your Miranda rights and refuse to talk to the officer. If he detains you and does not give your Miranda rights, don't talk to him anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

You are correct, I misspoke, an arrest isn't necessary, but you must be taken into custody for questioning before Miranda applies. IOW if a LEO asks you a question outside of a custodial type situation he is not required to mirandize you first. A simple example of this is a traffic violation. The LEO isn't required to Mirandize you before questioning you.

 

[ConHog]

Ok but if they knock on your door without a warrant you can refuse to let them in right?

If they are responding to a noise complaint you get to refuse to let them in right?

It get's a bit fuzzy here. No you do not have to let them in the house, BUT if they have a complain about you, you can't refuse to open the door and talk to them. IF you do that, you give them probable cause to force their way in. The best bet is to come out too them. I know Bones said something about LEO in her area lulling people outside and then arresting them for public intox, but I find that to be a baseless claim. No DA is going to press charges in that situation, unless there is a good reason, IE you were drunk and came out and shoved a LEO, or something like that. Merely being drunk on your porch is not a crime. Oh and do NOT carry your drink out with you.

MOST of the time when people have a bad encounter with LEO it is because THEY did something wrong. Just like with the TSA, follow the damn rules and most of the time you will have no problem. Same with LEO, know your rights, and by all means exercise them, but use some fucking common sense to and don't do stupid things just assuming that the LEO shouldn't do anything about it.

Most of the time people have a bad encounter with a LEO it is because the LEO has a hair up his ass.

And most of the time an LEO has a hair up his ass it is because someone has done something stupid that makes them nervous.