10 rules for dealing with the police

[Father Time]

These rules could be summed up in one;
Treat policemen like you want to be treated while you do your job.

Make that 2
When they walk up to you or knock on your door cops are not your friend.

Really? Tell that to the woman who was saved at minimum a severe beating because LEO walked up to her door as her boyfriend or whatever was kicking her ass.

You know what I meant.

If they are coming on a noise complaint, if they pull you over, if YOU did something wrong (or they think you did) they are never your friend.

 

[ConHog]

Make that 2
When they walk up to you or knock on your door cops are not your friend.

Really? Tell that to the woman who was saved at minimum a severe beating because LEO walked up to her door as her boyfriend or whatever was kicking her ass.

You know what I meant.

If they are coming on a noise complaint, if they pull you over, if YOU did something wrong (or they think you did) they are never your friend.

Neither are they your enemies. They are simply doing a job. A thankless , dangerous job.

 

[George Costanza]

No 5 is very important. Police rely heavily upon the "consensual encounter," where they walk up to a person on the street or in a parked car. It always starts out the same way: "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?" Very quickly, though, it advances to: "You have anything illegal on your person or in your car?" And it goes downhill from there (for you).

Your response to the initial, "Hi, how ya doin' tonight?", should be: "Just fine, officer. And now, if you will excuse me, I will be on my way." And you promptly proceed to GO on your way. If the friendly officer says WORD ONE to you after that, your next statement should be:
"Officer, am I free to leave or am I being detained?" You can't lose that one. If you are free to leave, you are free to leave - and should. If you are not free to leave, then you are being detained, and there can be no further conversation absent a Miranda warning. If that's the case, do not waive your Miranda rights and refuse to talk to the officer. If he detains you and does not give your Miranda rights, don't talk to him anyway.

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

Totally correct.

 

[George Costanza]

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

Totally correct.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

I said that, believe it or not.

Custodial Interrogation legal definition of Custodial Interrogation. Custodial Interrogation synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[JBeukema]

I misspoke

You didn't misspeak

you were just wrong

as usual

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

You are correct, I misspoke, an arrest isn't necessary, but you must be taken into custody for questioning before Miranda applies. IOW if a LEO asks you a question outside of a custodial type situation he is not required to mirandize you first. A simple example of this is a traffic violation. The LEO isn't required to Mirandize you before questioning you.

I know, I was just correcting the obvious error. He does not have to Mirandize you if he is just talking to you, but if he thinks you are involved, or you are in custody, he does.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It get's a bit fuzzy here. No you do not have to let them in the house, BUT if they have a complain about you, you can't refuse to open the door and talk to them. IF you do that, you give them probable cause to force their way in. The best bet is to come out too them. I know Bones said something about LEO in her area lulling people outside and then arresting them for public intox, but I find that to be a baseless claim. No DA is going to press charges in that situation, unless there is a good reason, IE you were drunk and came out and shoved a LEO, or something like that. Merely being drunk on your porch is not a crime. Oh and do NOT carry your drink out with you.

MOST of the time when people have a bad encounter with LEO it is because THEY did something wrong. Just like with the TSA, follow the damn rules and most of the time you will have no problem. Same with LEO, know your rights, and by all means exercise them, but use some fucking common sense to and don't do stupid things just assuming that the LEO shouldn't do anything about it.

Most of the time people have a bad encounter with a LEO it is because the LEO has a hair up his ass.

And most of the time an LEO has a hair up his ass it is because someone has done something stupid that makes them nervous.

Like this guy, you mean?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/25/2250584/exposing-agent-costs-kck-detective.html

 

[JBeukema]

Wrong wrong wrong George. Miranda is not required unless an arrest has been affected. For example, if you are detained as a witness, no Miranda is necessary, but you may or may not have the option of walking away. Also, if you are being question about a crime but are not under arrest for said crime Miranda is not needed. Again depending on the situation you may or may not have the ability to walk away. There are other situations where LEO can detain you and ask you questions without Miranda and you can't just leave.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

Totally correct.

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

Totally correct.

fail.

the first was incorrect

 

[JBeukema]

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

I said that, believe it or not.

Custodial Interrogation legal definition of Custodial Interrogation. Custodial Interrogation synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

no, you didn't

 

[ConHog]

Most of the time people have a bad encounter with a LEO it is because the LEO has a hair up his ass.

And most of the time an LEO has a hair up his ass it is because someone has done something stupid that makes them nervous.

Like this guy, you mean?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/25/2250584/exposing-agent-costs-kck-detective.html

I said MOST of the time. I fully recognize that some LEO are just dicks. You also surely recognize that MOST of the people LEO come in contact with are in fact guilty of something and probably don't want to just surrender to LEO? I could post the video of the woman in Seattle who punched a LEO because her friend was getting a ticket for jaywalking, for example. Some LEO are indeed assholes, but a lot of people they come in contact with are assholes to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

I said that, believe it or not.

Custodial Interrogation legal definition of Custodial Interrogation. Custodial Interrogation synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

no, you didn't

Yet I have a defense attorney, and the husband of a prosecutor, both admitting I am right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And most of the time an LEO has a hair up his ass it is because someone has done something stupid that makes them nervous.

Like this guy, you mean?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/25/2250584/exposing-agent-costs-kck-detective.html

I said MOST of the time. I fully recognize that some LEO are just dicks. You also surely recognize that MOST of the people LEO come in contact with are in fact guilty of something and probably don't want to just surrender to LEO? I could post the video of the woman in Seattle who punched a LEO because her friend was getting a ticket for jaywalking, for example. Some LEO are indeed assholes, but a lot of people they come in contact with are assholes to.

The problem with your POV is the reaction of other police to what happened.

America's Most Successful Stop Snitchin' Campaign - Reason Magazine

The only LEO that stood up for the truth was ostracized by his fellow officers. That makes the problem endemic to the system, and not just a few isolated incidents.

 

[George Costanza]

Miranda is required in any custodial situation, not just an arrest. It is even required during an interview if you think the guy is a suspect, but do not plan an arrest because you have no evidence. Anytime the cops detain me they can expect to talk to me through a lawyer, period.

Totally correct.

No. Many people believe that they can "beat the case" if the officer doesn't read them their Miranda rights during an arrest. This is a myth.
The only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been placed under arrest, AND (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime. For example, if you're placed under arrest after consenting to a search request and confessing to ownership of found contraband, police do not need to read you your rights unless they want to question you about an unrelated crime.
The courts have made clear that police do not have to tell you about your right to refuse searches. Also, despite the myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing; oral consent is completely valid.
If you're arrested, don't rely on police to inform you of your right to remain silent and see a lawyer. Use the magic words "I'm going to remain silent. I would like to see a lawyer." If police persist in questioning you, repeat the magic words. The magic words are like a legal condom. They're your best protection if you're under arrest.
Remember that anything you say can and will be used against you in court. So don't try to talk yourself out of the situation, and don't make small talk with police either.




Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters

Totally correct.

fail.

the first was incorrect

Well, OK - the original Miranda required advisement whenever a suspect's freedom was "curtailed in any significant manner." That has been chipped away at over the years. Now, a suspect has to be physically detained (handcuffed, placed in back seat of police car, actually arrested) before Miranda warnings are required.

Police can question during a Terry stop without Mirandizing the suspect.

A lot depends on how you are defining a "custodial situation."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Totally correct.

Totally correct.

fail.

the first was incorrect

Well, OK - the original Miranda required advisement whenever a suspect's freedom was "curtailed in any significant manner." That has been chipped away at over the years. Now, a suspect has to be physically detained (handcuffed, placed in back seat of police car, actually arrested) before Miranda warnings are required.

Police can question during a Terry stop without Mirandizing the suspect.

A lot depends on how you are defining a "custodial situation."

Terry Stops do not permit interrogation though. Anytime the police question a suspect they have to Mirandize him, even if he is not under arrest. Or did that get changed at some point?

 

[FA_Q2]

It get's a bit fuzzy here. No you do not have to let them in the house, BUT if they have a complain about you, you can't refuse to open the door and talk to them. IF you do that, you give them probable cause to force their way in. The best bet is to come out too them. I know Bones said something about LEO in her area lulling people outside and then arresting them for public intox, but I find that to be a baseless claim. No DA is going to press charges in that situation, unless there is a good reason, IE you were drunk and came out and shoved a LEO, or something like that. Merely being drunk on your porch is not a crime. Oh and do NOT carry your drink out with you.

MOST of the time when people have a bad encounter with LEO it is because THEY did something wrong. Just like with the TSA, follow the damn rules and most of the time you will have no problem. Same with LEO, know your rights, and by all means exercise them, but use some fucking common sense to and don't do stupid things just assuming that the LEO shouldn't do anything about it.

Most of the time people have a bad encounter with a LEO it is because the LEO has a hair up his ass.

And most of the time an LEO has a hair up his ass it is because someone has done something stupid that makes them nervous.

In my experience it is usually a power trip. The job is tough and it does take a particular type of person to be a cop. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough.

 

[George Costanza]

fail.

the first was incorrect

Well, OK - the original Miranda required advisement whenever a suspect's freedom was "curtailed in any significant manner." That has been chipped away at over the years. Now, a suspect has to be physically detained (handcuffed, placed in back seat of police car, actually arrested) before Miranda warnings are required.

Police can question during a Terry stop without Mirandizing the suspect.

A lot depends on how you are defining a "custodial situation."

Terry Stops do not permit interrogation though. Anytime the police question a suspect they have to Mirandize him, even if he is not under arrest. Or did that get changed at some point?

Nope.

A person is detained when circumstances are such that a reasonable person would believe he is not free to leave.

Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. Many state laws explicitly grant this authority; in Terry v. Ohio, the U.S. Supreme Court established it in all jurisdictions, regardless of explicit mention in state or local laws. Police may conduct a limited search for weapons (known as a “frisk&#8221 if they reasonably suspect that the person to be detained may be armed and dangerous.

Police may question a person detained in a Terry stop, but in general, the detainee is not required to answer.[10] However, many states have “stop and identify” laws that explicitly require a person detained under the conditions of Terry to identify himself to a police officer, and in some cases, provide additional information.

Before Hiibel, it was unresolved whether a detainee could be arrested and prosecuted for refusing to identify himself. Authority on this issue was split among the federal circuit courts of appeal,[11] and the U.S. Supreme Court twice expressly refused to address the question.[12] In Hiibel, the Court held, in a 5-4 decision, that a Nevada “stop and identify” law did not violate the United States Constitution. The Court’s opinion implied that a detainee was not required to produce written identification, but could satisfy the requirement merely by stating his name. Some “stop and identify” laws do not require that a detainee identify himself, but allow refusal to do so to be considered along with other factors in determining whether there is probable cause to arrest.

As of January 2010, the Supreme Court has not addressed the validity of requirements that a detainee provide information other than his name.

I haven't had to deal with this particular issue (questioning during a Terry stop) in some time. Just the way they fall. It could come up tomorrow.

 

[eots]

if a cop ask where your coming from tonight...dont say..."your mothers house"..I learned that one the hard way..

 

[JakeStarkey]

Had a friend tell a cop he was coming from the cop's sister's house, telling him the baby is going to be his nephew or niece. Got whacked for his mouth. The baby was a girl. About three years later the dad and his brothers beat the cop down at a family gathering, made him cry he was hurting so bad. Everybody said the cop started it, arguing they used the least amount of force necessary to protect themselves. Judge bought it. He was a family member, too. That little town was closely knit.

 

[George Costanza]

Guy gets pulled over by a highway patrol officer. The cop says: "Look, bud, my shift is almost over. I don't want to have to write up a traffic stop unless I absolutely have to. Tell you what - if you can give me one good reason why you were driving so fast, I'll let you go on your way."

Guy thinks for a second and then says: "Sure, officer. A week ago, my wife ran off with a highway patrol officer. I thought you were trying to give her back to me."

Traffic stop over. Guy drove off with no ticket. Highway patrol officer drove off laughing.