Your View On Todays Obama's "If We Hadn't Bailed Out GM & Chrysler" VS 9.1% Jobs ?

[rdean]

How many auto workers are in your state? - USATODAY.com

Jobs affected by the auto industry includes retail, manufacturing and service sectors, larger industries like steel, glass and electronics and individual jobs such as taxi-driving, travel and advertising.

There is no state not touched by the auto industry and the right wing says, "Let it die". Then the right wing gets so made when I point out that fact that many just aren't bright. Even after reading this, they will still see no connection between the auto industry and the rest of the country or how their lives would be affected by that industry going down.

I think it's hilarious that "one trick pony" Republicans ran on a platform of "jobs, jobs, jobs". Their ONLY solution is "cut taxes". They did everything they could to ruin any chance of economic improvement. Once in office they go right for gay rights and woman's rights. What month did they enter office? What month did they enter a jobs bill? What is their plan to create jobs? Oh, that's right, cut taxes. What else have they done to create jobs? Oh, that's right, government can't create jobs. Guess that means they lied once again to the American People. Jobs jobs jobs.

Well, taxes are at a 60 year low. The top 12 companies got money back from the government and oil companies are receiving subsidies.

One trick pony. Cut taxes. Doesn't work. It's no coincidence that government doesn't work when Republicans are in charge. By saying, "Government doesn't work" and then making sure it doesn't, it's a "self fulfilling prophecy".

 

[Londoner]

1) Does anyone remember the way Reagan protected the American car manufacturers from the Japs in the 80's?

2) Does anyone study actual history and actual policy?

turn off talk radio

(Huge portions of the Right are now getting their information from a political machine, which has them hermetically sealed in a radio, TV, internet bubble)

(if you think unemployment is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet. The Bush meltdown cannot be reversed. This game ended when Reagan convinced America that there was no need to get out of the middle east, and no need to reduce our petroleum use. The game ended when we destroyed American wages and were forced to put the middle class on debt instruments to sustain the consumption economy. The game has been over for a long time. The Bush meltdown was the final straw. The game is over)

 

[daveman]

1) Does anyone remember the way Reagan protected the American car manufacturers from the Japs in the 80's?

2) Does anyone study actual history and actual policy?

turn off talk radio

(Huge portions of the Right are now getting their information from a political machine, which has them hermetically sealed in a radio, TV, internet bubble)

(if you think unemployment is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet. The Bush meltdown cannot be reversed. This game ended when Reagan convinced America that there was no need to get out of the middle east, and no need to reduce our petroleum use. The game ended when we destroyed American wages and were forced to put the middle class on debt instruments to sustain the consumption economy. The game has been over for a long time. The Bush meltdown was the final straw. The game is over)

If you don't hold Democrats accountable as well, you have zero credibility.

Period.

 

[Toronado3800]

Can you prove him wrong?

Can you show that letting GM and Chrysler go under would have made America a better place?

Can you show that without the 300 billion in tax cuts and the 450 billion in spending in the stimulus that overall, America would be in better shape right now?

Can you show that it kept the sky from falling?

Is your failure to answer the question a 'No'?

Sir or madam, consider for a moment any deficit spending to keep GM afloat has had little effect on the economy to this point except perhaps devaluing the dollar by a couple pennies.

Also consider there are Americans getting paychecks from GM and Chrysler. Paychecks almost entirely funded by vehicle sales, parts sales, and gasp, a couple exports. If they had failed and shut the doors the employees would most likely be unemployed to this point. Best case, five, maybe ten years in the future America's Asian overlords through Toyota and Kia might have bought idled plants and began production. Then under a "survival of the fittest" pure capitalism type of view there is a debate to be had that cars could be made cheaper.

A simple comparison would be to the first month you are out of college. You have a degree which has gotten you a starter job in your field. No student loans are due yet and you are better off financially at the moment. Five years down the road we will see if your debt from college pays off.

 

[Immanuel]

Once again, Our Modern Day Messiah finds himself in a "George Castanza-Art Vandalay" Moment! And when you think about it, Obama is our modern day George Castanza. Always having to lie about all of his past & recent scandals&screw-ups. Today he tried to explain to a small crowd in Toledo,OH. that if it wasn't for the Billions He Gave To GM&Chrysler,all those "Union Employees" would of lost their jobs and the country would of been in a much deeper recession. It's wearing out OBAMA !!! Two and a half Years of high unemployment and weak growth. What's Obama gonna tell the nation in one/two months if unemployment hits 9.3%? Will It Be George Bush's Fault?

Well, for those of us in Toledo, saving GM and Chrysler has kept this town afloat. And not only did they save existing jobs, Chrysler is hiring new employees again. Had all those jobs been lost, Toledo and most of northwest Ohio would have become one of the most depressed areas in the country.

Saving these companies made sense and it was the right thing to do. Why don't you spend your time bitching about things that Obama really screwed up, like extending the Bush tax cuts?

In the meantime, the rest of this country got screwed.

Immie

 

[Toronado3800]

Once again, Our Modern Day Messiah finds himself in a "George Castanza-Art Vandalay" Moment! And when you think about it, Obama is our modern day George Castanza. Always having to lie about all of his past & recent scandals&screw-ups. Today he tried to explain to a small crowd in Toledo,OH. that if it wasn't for the Billions He Gave To GM&Chrysler,all those "Union Employees" would of lost their jobs and the country would of been in a much deeper recession. It's wearing out OBAMA !!! Two and a half Years of high unemployment and weak growth. What's Obama gonna tell the nation in one/two months if unemployment hits 9.3%? Will It Be George Bush's Fault?

Well, for those of us in Toledo, saving GM and Chrysler has kept this town afloat. And not only did they save existing jobs, Chrysler is hiring new employees again. Had all those jobs been lost, Toledo and most of northwest Ohio would have become one of the most depressed areas in the country.

Saving these companies made sense and it was the right thing to do. Why don't you spend your time bitching about things that Obama really screwed up, like extending the Bush tax cuts?

In the meantime, the rest of this country got screwed.

Immie

Immie, how do you think it has screwed you so far? By undeniably removing the need to support the families of auto workers for the next five years?

Perhaps a decade from now you and I will have to deal with the negatives....if the government has not received a higher return on their investment than the cost of supporting them families.

Although there is a chance corporations will rest of their laurels counting on the government to bail them out again. ug, human nature

 

[Immanuel]

Well, for those of us in Toledo, saving GM and Chrysler has kept this town afloat. And not only did they save existing jobs, Chrysler is hiring new employees again. Had all those jobs been lost, Toledo and most of northwest Ohio would have become one of the most depressed areas in the country.

Saving these companies made sense and it was the right thing to do. Why don't you spend your time bitching about things that Obama really screwed up, like extending the Bush tax cuts?

In the meantime, the rest of this country got screwed.

Immie

Immie, how do you think it has screwed you so far? By undeniably removing the need to support the families of auto workers for the next five years?

Perhaps a decade from now you and I will have to deal with the negatives....if the government has not received a higher return on their investment than the cost of supporting them families.

Although there is a chance corporations will rest of their laurels counting on the government to bail them out again. ug, human nature

Walk down the streets of my town. Businesses are gone. For miles upon miles there is almost nothing but empty buildings. It seems that 50% of the homes between my house and the interstate are up for sale, vacant and foreclosed upon. There are two subdivisions that were graded, streets paved and a home or two built starting two years ago... the developers are gone and the subdivisions are empty.

Unemployment in my county (by government statements) sits at 12%. It is most likely higher than that.

I have been unemployed for 16 months and from people I have spoken with that commiserate with me, I'm on the short end of the unemployment period.

As for your statement of having to support those workers, I am by no means convinced that those companies were bound for extinction. The same goes for the banks.

Here in my neck of the woods, we're screwed and things are not getting any better. I've had to begin looking in other states for a job. If I get lucky and actually talk to an employer here in the area I live in, I am told they get between 300 and 500 resumes per job. I am an accountant but not a CPA. Employers want CPAs now and they only want to pay $30,000/year for a frigging CPA and you know what... it seems they are getting away with it.

But, cheer up, Obama saved all those jobs. Hogwash!

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Forgive me Toronado, I probably sound a little miffed in that reply... guess what I am. Probably a bit selfish too, but I'm getting tired of sending resumes out and getting no response what so ever.

Don't ask me to thank Obama... ain't gonna happen.

Immie

 

[Annie]

1) Does anyone remember the way Reagan protected the American car manufacturers from the Japs in the 80's?

2) Does anyone study actual history and actual policy?

turn off talk radio

(Huge portions of the Right are now getting their information from a political machine, which has them hermetically sealed in a radio, TV, internet bubble)

(if you think unemployment is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet. The Bush meltdown cannot be reversed. This game ended when Reagan convinced America that there was no need to get out of the middle east, and no need to reduce our petroleum use. The game ended when we destroyed American wages and were forced to put the middle class on debt instruments to sustain the consumption economy. The game has been over for a long time. The Bush meltdown was the final straw. The game is over)

Londoner, my guess is you hate what is happening in your country presently even more than here. They are ahead of us to this point. Will that stay? Dunno, but you damned well better hope not.

 

[shintao]

I dunno, how much? Does that include the banks and auto companies?

I think we can count unions as businesses, too. It's not like they're looking out for their members -- they're exploiting them.

Absolutely *UNIONS* are a business. They are *BIG LABOR*...to use Statist terminology and thinking...that usurps LAW by 'collective bargaining' that appears NO WHWERE in the Constituion...and funnels what money they get right back to the DNC...

I'd say that was Money Laundering that needs to be investigated.

I don't see any laws unsurped by collective bargaining (Do point them out), but like individual bargaining, charity, corporatism, jingle-bell sales, you will find it no where in the Constitution. What isn't left to the Federal & State, is left to WE the people. So you wanting investigations tells me you want big government with Fascist powers, and that is a flaw in con-ism. LMAO!!

 

[shintao]

Forgive me Toronado, I probably sound a little miffed in that reply... guess what I am. Probably a bit selfish too, but I'm getting tired of sending resumes out and getting no response what so ever.

Don't ask me to thank Obama... ain't gonna happen.

Immie

I see no reason for you to thank Obama either. It is not his job to find you a job. As to getting a job, sounds like you are looking in all the wrong places, and might catch on after the 5th or 6th rejection.

Look at people's characterisitics of who is getting jobs. Global Economy: 1. Willing to travel the globe. 2. Willing to work for slighty less to get in the door. 3. Maynot have anti-work baggage, like a wife or kids or home, & can travel now, not later. 4. Have people skills, can speak several languages, understand the culture & customs of the country in question.

There are plenty of good jobs in the US, you just have be willing to relocate. I see your statement above. Either train to be a CPA, or look for other categories of work where you can use accounting. I would be looking in the ME at all the construction companies in payroll or materials.

Here are hundreds of accounting positions in & out of America. http://overseasjobs.escapeartist.com/powersearch.asp

 

[shintao]

I met a Mexican guy a few years back who owns a good deal of land now. One of things he mention was when he came to America he was so broke he had to live several years in his pick up truck. That is what it takes to be successful, when you are not born into riches. Do whatever it takes to succeed, in whatever you are capable of doing.

One of my millionaire friends started out in NY, pushing an ice cream cart. He built that business up, sold it, and came to California where he invested in land sales. Most of all, be a survivor & don't sit and whine or feel sorry for yourself.

 

[auditor0007]

Once again, Our Modern Day Messiah finds himself in a "George Castanza-Art Vandalay" Moment! And when you think about it, Obama is our modern day George Castanza. Always having to lie about all of his past & recent scandals&screw-ups. Today he tried to explain to a small crowd in Toledo,OH. that if it wasn't for the Billions He Gave To GM&Chrysler,all those "Union Employees" would of lost their jobs and the country would of been in a much deeper recession. It's wearing out OBAMA !!! Two and a half Years of high unemployment and weak growth. What's Obama gonna tell the nation in one/two months if unemployment hits 9.3%? Will It Be George Bush's Fault?

Well, for those of us in Toledo, saving GM and Chrysler has kept this town afloat. And not only did they save existing jobs, Chrysler is hiring new employees again. Had all those jobs been lost, Toledo and most of northwest Ohio would have become one of the most depressed areas in the country.

Saving these companies made sense and it was the right thing to do. Why don't you spend your time bitching about things that Obama really screwed up, like extending the Bush tax cuts?

I'm glad you have a job, but it's not governments position to cover for piss poor businessman with piss poor decisions that made the company fail. GM and chrysler should have been left to fail, ford would have gladly bought them and you would still have a job and the government would not own GM right now. It's called the free market, and if you make bad decisions that cost you your company then tough shit, that's how it works, someone else will step in and fill the void, always have.

Ford would not have bought them. That is wishful thinking. What would have happened is that not only would all the jobs been lost at Chrysler and GM, but it would have killed supporting businesses in the industry, cutting supplies to Ford, Toyota, Honda, and every other auto manufacturer. Ford especially would have felt a very negative impact, most likely forcing them into bankruptcy also.

The trickle down effect would have led to massive unemployment in this part of the country, which in turn would have effected other parts of the economy. The only good thing is that someone new moving to the area could have picked up a house at a 75% discount instead of the 30% discount homes are currently selling at.

 

[EdSchultzIsFat]

Regarding the benefits of bailing out GM&Chrysler and how it affected other small auto related businesses, How come Obama didn't bail out anyone in the service sector of whom lost half their clients? For example, construction,plumbers,any home service related industries,Restaurants,Hotels, etc. A chunk of service related jobs were lost in 2009,and the Democrats didn't even care. There was a time when you could open the help wanted ads and saw endless ads for Waiters,Bussers,Banquet Servers,Plumbers,Retail,Contract Work,Landscapers,,,etc. etc. Those service sector jobs were wiped out thanks to Obama who refused to give bail-outs to small businesses!!! And when that happened,,alot of these people lost their homes and filed for bankruptcy!! But at least we got even with O'Hitler in November 2010 for giving the finger to the Average American !!!!!

 

[shintao]

Well, for those of us in Toledo, saving GM and Chrysler has kept this town afloat. And not only did they save existing jobs, Chrysler is hiring new employees again. Had all those jobs been lost, Toledo and most of northwest Ohio would have become one of the most depressed areas in the country.

Saving these companies made sense and it was the right thing to do. Why don't you spend your time bitching about things that Obama really screwed up, like extending the Bush tax cuts?

I'm glad you have a job, but it's not governments position to cover for piss poor businessman with piss poor decisions that made the company fail. GM and chrysler should have been left to fail, ford would have gladly bought them and you would still have a job and the government would not own GM right now. It's called the free market, and if you make bad decisions that cost you your company then tough shit, that's how it works, someone else will step in and fill the void, always have.

Ford would not have bought them. That is wishful thinking. What would have happened is that not only would all the jobs been lost at Chrysler and GM, but it would have killed supporting businesses in the industry, cutting supplies to Ford, Toyota, Honda, and every other auto manufacturer. Ford especially would have felt a very negative impact, most likely forcing them into bankruptcy also.

The trickle down effect would have led to massive unemployment in this part of the country, which in turn would have effected other parts of the economy. The only good thing is that someone new moving to the area could have picked up a house at a 75% discount instead of the 30% discount homes are currently selling at.

I don't think anyone here is seeing the big picture, so take a look at Big Global GM, that was built off the backs of the American Auto Union Workers. All the while GM was getting it's free hand out in exchange for Obama campaign contributions, they were in the process of building more global auto plants that hire NO American workers & use NO American parts, and pay NO American taxes. IN OTHERWORDS, if they really wanted to keep the American plants opened, or avoid a self-inflicted bankruptcy,.......they could have sold off auto plants in foreign countries. Or like Walmart, shifted capital out of some foreign countries doing well, back into the Michigan plants. This isn't rocket science!!

 

[bripat9643]

Can you show that it kept the sky from falling?

It sure as hell did in northwest Ohio and southeast Michigan. Ask anyone who lives here.

Robbery is always good for the robbers. The question here is whether it was good for the nation.

 

[sparky]

Your View On Todays Obama's "If We Hadn't Bailed Out GM & Chrysler" VS 9.1% Jobs

Is that somebody dead? I think it's pretty tasteless to put up a picture of someone who died violently to make a political point. Seems nasty.

His name was Capitalism RDean, he had no allegiance to America, or American's .

Yet he had a legacy of suppling a structure that worked fairly well for all included, as long as he was let to do so within certain parameters

He escaped them a few decades ago, and running amock came to a bad end.....

He is survived by his siblings socalism, feudalism, monarchism, corporatism & communism, all of who are positioned for the 2012 election, donations are being solicited in lieu of flowers by the FEC....

 

[NYcarbineer]

and how come Obama never bailed out all the small businesses who were on the virge of going under? and how many small businesses had to shut down in 2009 thanks to the Obama Recession? Obama never sent the average hurting family a check for $50,000 to tie them over until the recession would end. But he didn't mind bailing out his Friends that voted for him!!!

How much of the stimulus was tax cuts for businesses?

I dunno, how much? Does that include the banks and auto companies?

Don't feel bad, you're not the only rightwing nut around here who has no clue what was really in the stimulus bill.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Can you show that it kept the sky from falling?

Is your failure to answer the question a 'No'?

and your failure to answer the question is.....?

I'll be glad to, once I hear his answer.

Fact is, NO ONE can make the case that the US would be better off if GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go under,

from which it is reasonable to conclude that there is no such case,

therefore, it is a reasonable conclusion that the GM/Chrysler 'bailouts' were a success.

It's a mystery why this certain faction of the Right was so happy at the prospect of the US losing GM and Chrysler as domestic industries and yet not one person in that crowd can make a cogent logical argument as to why that would have made this country a better place.

That's irrationality defined.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Can you prove him wrong?

Can you show that letting GM and Chrysler go under would have made America a better place?

Can you show that without the 300 billion in tax cuts and the 450 billion in spending in the stimulus that overall, America would be in better shape right now?

Allowing bad business practices to fail is always the way to go. Whats the matter with you? I have a business and I had a few really bad years, should you have propped me up? or should you allow me to sink or swim? I worked like hell and survived and now I'm doing great. Why did we not allow that same hands off response to businesses with lobbyist? Oh never mind I answered my own question.

The question was why would America be a better place if GM and Chrysler had gone under?
Your response is that allowing businesses to fail is ALWAYS the way to go. That answer thus claims that GM and Chrysler disappearing would have made the US better.

So it's up to you to show how and why.