Yet ANOTHER shooting

[midcan5]

And for those who argue everyone should be armed - they are either immature or plain crazy. I have been in too many fights, arguments etc with people in public areas to want any of them armed. The death rate would simply increase. And if I want to walk or hike someplace, I do not want your average paranoid human aiming at me or my family for fear I am a home robber etc. Arming lots of people would be the last solution in a sane sensible society. Too many children die now where guns are in the house.

Death by the Barrel | Harvard Magazine

 

[raceright]

Why exactly would this be the case?

How often is a murder plan foiled because the person that was to be murdered used their own gun first?

my point was that making them illegal would do NOTHING to reduce the crime rate/gun related crime rate, because a murderer is not going to respect gun laws.

I'm not so sure that would be true.

We all know the old adage "The bad guys will always find a gun" is true, but over time, if guns were illegal, there would be no market for them, and therefore there wouldn't be any guns being manufactured, nor any ammunition. Eventually, the supply would dry up and there would be fewer guns for the bad guys to get their hands on.

I'm not saying that I want guns to become illegal, but I don't really buy the notion that the gun related crime rate would continue at the same rate ad inifinitum.

Wise Words from an American Patriot

and was he ever so right






When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe,
we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
Thomas Jefferson



The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson



It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson



I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense
of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson



My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results
from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson



No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson



The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson



The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of
patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson



To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which
he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson



Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than
standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control
the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and
corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all
property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered.'

we are so far away from being as free as we became after we kicked England out
It might take some blood shed to fix us.

 

[Diuretic]

He might have been right then, but is he right now?

Context is everything.

 

[raceright]

We are the world experiment built on the values of freedom,as government slowly takes freedom away under the idea that it will
be better for everyone the first thing you have to think is can they be trusted?? Answer of course not. American founders were of the mind set that we hate rules,but realized that people being people needed to be governed--that said they also knew that to much government leads to to many rules and this erodes freedom,the reason they set up road blocks such as congress.bill of rights and so on was to make it difficult to add rules.
If the government follows the Constitution every thing will work as the founders intended but when it is fucked with as it is being fucked with now we give up freedom.(and as some have said getting out of jail is what they consider being free,holly shit maybe its to late as way to many have no idea what freedom means or is)
It appears that Obow ma and Eric the not so great have realzed that messing with gun freedom is not a good idea,at least in the open it will be interesting to see what they do behind closed doors,watch this there will be a fight in congress and Obow ma will not get the blame..

 

[Old Rocks]

And for those who argue everyone should be armed - they are either immature or plain crazy. I have been in too many fights, arguments etc with people in public areas to want any of them armed. The death rate would simply increase. And if I want to walk or hike someplace, I do not want your average paranoid human aiming at me or my family for fear I am a home robber etc. Arming lots of people would be the last solution in a sane sensible society. Too many children die now where guns are in the house.

Death by the Barrel | Harvard Magazine

I have been around many people that should not be allowed within ten feet of a gun. And there are all too many others that are careless enough that their ownership of guns presents a danger to themselves and their family.

As stated before, I have been a gun owner since I was 12 years old. I hunt, and am proficient with the weopons I own. I have even been in a situation that having a gun and showing that I was ready to use it probably saved my life. It was not a one on one situation, it was myself against 10 in an isolated environment.

However, against the crazies that we have seen this last month, it is doubtful that you would even have the chance to use the gun. Most of these people had guns legally. And the people they killed, with one exception, had little to do with their resentments.

The problem here is that you gun nuts are addressing the sympton of the fear that this kind of insanity results in, rather than the cause. And creating even greater anger among citizens that do not agree with you.

A caring society and ready access to mental health aid will do more to reduce these kinds of horrors than arming a bunch of people that have little knowledge or caring about the safe handling of guns.

 

[raceright]

He might have been right then, but is he right now?

Context is everything.

Of Course,Freedom is Freedom no matter how you slice it, we only have one problem our leaders keep trying to change what the Founders established.

 

[Diuretic]

He might have been right then, but is he right now?

Context is everything.

Of Course,Freedom is Freedom no matter how you slice it, we only have one problem our leaders keep trying to change what the Founders established.

Can you post something other than a slogan?

Freedom is not freedom no matter how you slice it at all. Freedom isn't an absolute. The issue is where to draw the limits. Come on let's have more than sloganeering for crying out loud.

 

[editec]

ABSOLUTE freedom is the freedom to do WHATEVER you want.

Who here wants to live in that society?

Not one of us.

So spare us your claim that you love FREEDOM, folks.

None of you love that absolute freedom you so often claim that YOUR POSITON stands for (and everybody else's hates!)because YOUR POLTICAL POSITIONS doesn't want that sort of freedom any more than anyone else's political wants that kind of freedom.

Guns do NOT make you free.

YOUR privately owned guns do not even PROTECT your freedoms.

At best (and this is important in some cases) your guns might protect you from those who truly DO want ABSOLUTE FREEDOM.

And who is it who is absolutely free?

Criminals at large.

The rest of us are at best FREEDOM SLAVES.

 

[Old Rocks]

Absolute freedom.

If 40 people live along a river, and piss in it whenever they decide to, it makes no differance at all. If 4,000,000 people live along this river and do the same, you no longer have a river, you have an open sewer.

Your freedom ends where my feet begin.

 

[midcan5]

Absolute freedom.

If 40 people live along a river, and piss in it whenever they decide to, it makes no differance at all. If 4,000,000 people live along this river and do the same, you no longer have a river, you have an open sewer.

Your freedom ends where my feet begin.

Sounds like material for a Seinfeld episode. lol

"It is not enough to ask, ‘Will my act harm other people?’ Even if the answer is No, my act may still be wrong, because of its effects on other people. I should ask, ‘Will my act be one of a set of acts that will together harm other people?’ The answer may be Yes. And the harm to others may be great." Derek Parfit

 

[xotoxi]

Peace would break out all over the world and we would all clasp hands and skip merrily down the lane singing happy songs...... WHAT FANTASY WORLD do you live in?

Do you need to be a fucking ass?

Or do you just choose to be?

I notice you left out your claim and the rest of my response. You made an ignorant statement that magically because the US banned private ownership of firearms that eventually crimes with guns would go down. Using the excuse that there would be no market for guns and no guns for that market.

DO YOU routinely misinform and try to deceive?

I was not misinforming or trying to deceive. I wasn't presenting a fact. I wasn't trying to state a truth. I was just engaging in a discussion by presenting a hypothesis. Hypotheses do not need statistics to back them up.

You could have either presented a counter-hypothesis or you could have presented fact and stats to disprove my hypothesis.

But instead you acted like a child. It is clear to me that you cannot engage in a hypothetical discussion, but only in a discussion where all the stats are presented, and only if they prove your point of view.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Once again for the slow, stupid and criminally insane.... If you want to take our guns away CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION.

It is a pretty straight forward proposition with clearly defined means for the Government to get an Amendment made and passed.

You dumb asses would sell your freedom, what little you have, to an oppressive Government simply because you are cowards, retards and idiots.


As for you Kangaroo turd, it is simple, the Constitution is the Ultimate LAW of this land. IT STATES that we have a PERSONAL RIGHT to keep and bear arms. Further the Supreme Court has ruled that right encompasses military style weapons. So THAT is our FREEDOM, no slogan needed. The Second Amendment is quite CLEAR, the Government can NOT infringe our right to own and maintain firearms. Not because of crime control and not because of people control.

Want it changed? PASS A FUCKING NEW AMENDMENT.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do you need to be a fucking ass?

Or do you just choose to be?

I notice you left out your claim and the rest of my response. You made an ignorant statement that magically because the US banned private ownership of firearms that eventually crimes with guns would go down. Using the excuse that there would be no market for guns and no guns for that market.

DO YOU routinely misinform and try to deceive?

I was not misinforming or trying to deceive. I wasn't presenting a fact. I wasn't trying to state a truth. I was just engaging in a discussion by presenting a hypothesis. Hypotheses do not need statistics to back them up.

You could have either presented a counter-hypothesis or you could have presented fact and stats to disprove my hypothesis.

But instead you acted like a child. It is clear to me that you cannot engage in a hypothetical discussion, but only in a discussion where all the stats are presented, and only if they prove your point of view.

Lying yet again. I DID in fact point out in some detail why your little Utopia wet dream would not come about. Of course you LEFT that out when you quoted me, I wonder why? The child here is you.

 

[xotoxi]

Once again for the slow, stupid and criminally insane.... If you want to take our guns away CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION.

It is a pretty straight forward proposition with clearly defined means for the Government to get an Amendment made and passed.

You dumb asses would sell your freedom, what little you have, to an oppressive Government simply because you are cowards, retards and idiots.


As for you Kangaroo turd, it is simple, the Constitution is the Ultimate LAW of this land. IT STATES that we have a PERSONAL RIGHT to keep and bear arms. Further the Supreme Court has ruled that right encompasses military style weapons. So THAT is our FREEDOM, no slogan needed. The Second Amendment is quite CLEAR, the Government can NOT infringe our right to own and maintain firearms. Not because of crime control and not because of people control.

Want it changed? PASS A FUCKING NEW AMENDMENT.

I'm not saying that I want guns to become illegal, but I don't really buy the notion that the gun related crime rate would continue at the same rate ad inifinitum.

.

 

[midcan5]

The Second Amendment is only clear to those whose reality glasses are badly smudged.

“In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment’s “right to keep and bear arms.” Burger answered that the Second Amendment “has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud– I repeat the word ‘fraud’–on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.” In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that “the Second Amendment doesn’t guarantee the right to have firearms at all. ” In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was “to ensure that the ’state armies’–’the militia’–would be maintained for the defense of the state.”

It is impossible to understand the current Second Amendment debate without lingering over Burger’s words. Burger was a cautious person as well as a conservative judge, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court is unlikely to offer a controversial position on a constitutional question in an interview on national television.”

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e8997807-107b-461f-90d2-51a3ef91b508

 

[elvis]

The Second Amendment is only clear to those whose reality glasses are badly smudged.

“In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment’s “right to keep and bear arms.” Burger answered that the Second Amendment “has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud– I repeat the word ‘fraud’–on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.” In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that “the Second Amendment doesn’t guarantee the right to have firearms at all. ” In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was “to ensure that the ’state armies’–’the militia’–would be maintained for the defense of the state.”

It is impossible to understand the current Second Amendment debate without lingering over Burger’s words. Burger was a cautious person as well as a conservative judge, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court is unlikely to offer a controversial position on a constitutional question in an interview on national television.”

The Most Mysterious Right

That's in his VIEW, he is no longer on the Supreme Court, and the SC ruled on it, so deal with it, Obamabot.

 

[raceright]

Absolute freedom.

If 40 people live along a river, and piss in it whenever they decide to, it makes no differance at all. If 4,000,000 people live along this river and do the same, you no longer have a river, you have an open sewer.

Your freedom ends where my feet begin.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities,as in europe,we shall become as corrupt as Europe. Thomas Jefferson

Most of what you complain about the founders of the USA
warned about when are we going to listen and head there warning's.
They did not need a million dollar study at some University to figure out all that you complain about.

 

[midcan5]

That's in his VIEW, he is no longer on the Supreme Court, and the SC ruled on it, so deal with it, Obamabot.

Ah shucks, 'Obamabot' what wonderfully brilliant come back. Thanks for thinking.

 

[raceright]

He might have been right then, but is he right now?

Context is everything.

Of Course,Freedom is Freedom no matter how you slice it, we only have one problem our leaders keep trying to change what the Founders established.

Can you post something other than a slogan?

Freedom is not freedom no matter how you slice it at all. Freedom isn't an absolute. The issue is where to draw the limits. Come on let's have more than sloganeering for crying out loud.

Let me get this right You are not and US citizen if you are I might
listen to you but if not I could care less what you and Australia think

planinly Go Fuckyour self

 

[raceright]

ABSOLUTE freedom is the freedom to do WHATEVER you want.

Who here wants to live in that society?

Not one of us.

So spare us your claim that you love FREEDOM, folks.

None of you love that absolute freedom you so often claim that YOUR POSITON stands for (and everybody else's hates!)because YOUR POLTICAL POSITIONS doesn't want that sort of freedom any more than anyone else's political wants that kind of freedom.

Guns do NOT make you free.

YOUR privately owned guns do not even PROTECT your freedoms.

At best (and this is important in some cases) your guns might protect you from those who truly DO want ABSOLUTE FREEDOM.

And who is it who is absolutely free?

Criminals at large.

The rest of us are at best FREEDOM SLAVES.

Unlike you there are many who do not want the Constitution messed with as the founders wanted. They also predicted the rise of Tyranny
as has been happening and is gaining speed every day..It is sad that
so many do not understand freedom. Our Great Grand parents if they rose from the dead would not believe how many freedoms have been given up under the stupid argument that you propose like you just can't do what you want.
Move from the City and maybe you will get some idea as to what freedom used to mean.