YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[JimBowie1958]

Your arguments are falling apart.

Maybe they are, but you havent shown it to be the case at any rate.

Fact, Barton's book has been recalled for falsification and plagiarism.

Where did I say it has not? Where do I basemy argument on Bartons claims? Do you understand why that is relevant?

Fact, the DOI religious language is applicable to the larger deistic and religious world than just Christianity.

Again, where did I say it did not? And the general view of deism as it was forming at that time was more about how one saw the natur of God interacting in the universe, with all the miraculous intervention being done at the moment of Creation. As to the rest of what people call Deism it varied from one writer to the next.

But given how these people you call diests, like Jefferson from Virginia, had state churches and repeatedly praised Christian beliefs as opposed to formal Christian religion, I dont see how any of that can support your claim that the American nation and people are not Christian. Nor do I think you can understand the distinctions anyway as you are entirely uninterested in them and could not care less.

Fact, your unsupported assertions, JimBowie, reveal you as the poseur you are.

If I have made unsupported assertions as you have just doen, then why dont you spell them out as I hav ejust done?

Because your claim is nothing more than another bullshit lie from your shitty little pie hole.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie's allegations continue fail.

America is a secular government at the national and state levels.

So, you call this secular? I think that you might have to turn in your ACLU card.

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the
favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following
Constitution ..

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to
those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ..

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to
Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful
to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of Universe .

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with
gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature,
the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the
dictates
of
their consciences .

Florida 1845, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to
Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this
Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection
and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
Guidance . establish this Constitution

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ..

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath
so
long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors
.

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to
Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of
government
..

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the
Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence
on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God
for our civil and religious privileges . establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to
Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ..

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful
hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us
an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful
to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of
the
Universe...in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly
imploring His
direction ...

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
perpetuate
its
blessings

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention
assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ..
establish this Constitution ..

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God
for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom .. establish this Constitution

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom . establish this Constitution ..

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural
and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own
conscience .

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so
long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors
.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ..

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings .

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina,
grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil,
political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon
Him for the continuance of those

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our
common
..

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to
secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure
in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of
their consciences .

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island
grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South
Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this
Constitution

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties . establish this

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible
right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their
conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging,
with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we
establish this Constitution .

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe
our Creator . can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual
duty
of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each
other
...

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington,
grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain
this
Constitution .

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the
blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West
Virginia .. reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty
God for our freedom, domestic tranquility

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to
God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this
Constitution .

 

[JimBowie1958]

The point is that the state governments must conform to the Constitution and did by the 1830s. The governments are secular, and religion and state are divorced.

More bullshit.

The 14th Amendment, by which the SCOTUS ruled the states to be covered by the Constitutions gurrantees, did not even exist till after the Civil WAr in the late 1860s. This spurious interpretation of the 14th was not used till the 1930s, IIRC.

No one had secularized all state government in the sense the ACLU demands 100% cokmplete and total speration by the 1830s. Again you knowingly lie.

JimBowie is controlled by fifty years of Christian domionist propaganda and can't think for himself.

Lol, you stupid jack ass, you have no idea what my beliefs are, especially since I am not even Protestant you moron.

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of which makes our government Christian.

You try telling the judge "God told me". You silly goof.

Our government is secular.

You have to give proof in law to show what you are claiming, and you can't do it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

J B, like Hitler his idol, has no idea who is Jesus Christ.

And Starky, once again, confuses his opinion with fact.

I know Jesus Christ drove the money changers out of the Temple because they fouled the place with their presence. I guess that speaks alot to yourself.

Got change for a nickle?

How can I help you with that online?

Get it from one of your chickenhawks.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JimBowie's neo-fascist Christian dominionism is leading him astray, but not the rest of us who understand God and understand our Constitution and government.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Do you talk to Christ in the same manner?

What's it to you if I do?

He would claim it is evil. He told me to stop it also.

So you are delusional. That is good to know.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The white invaders of Indian lands introduced Christianity to those lands.
They had to murder a lot of the Indians to do so but I'm sure that, along with the rapes, murdering Indian children and so on, were entirely justified.

Why do you have such ignorant bigotry against white Americans?

Most Amerindians assimilated into American society at the lower social levels, economically, socially and most converted to Christianity.

Of course I am wasting my time as you are apparently just being a stupid ass troll.

Its sad and frightening that racist cretins like you still exist.

Eat shit bitch.

I am more than happy at your response.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JimBowie's opinions are not fact, but is racism is apparent and awful.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie continues to cry and sigh, whine and pine, and just not tell the truth.

It's a shame that Christian dominionists have it wrong, but that is what it is.

He is what he is and the God-fearing majority of Americans will just have to carry him along.

Poor, poor butt-hurt Starkey.

Dont worry, no one will care or blame you when you switch over to the Tea Party Dominionists, lol.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie's opinions are not fact, but is racism is apparent and awful.

Of course my opinons are not fact, you stupid shit. Jesus H Christ!

And once again, you say I am a racist but fail to provide evidence.

More bullshit from Starkey!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Poor, poor butt hurt JimBowie, who cannot defend his opinions at all.

He thinks his opinions are evidence.

He will have to let the butt hurt flow through him.

 

[logical4u]

well it's just too bad for christians, they have to allow other religions to usurp their stranglehold of the US society. Tsk-tsk.

No, we do not have to "allow" other religions to usurp us. We still have freedom of speech (thought the left is trying to silence us by calling us racists, bigots and haters, any time they disagree with us). We can still state the truth. All people have the ability to reason (whether they choose to use it or not is another topic). They can decide for themselves. Please list the "other religious cultures" that have produced a society that is anywhere close to what "Christian societies" have produced. Use facts. Use science. Oh, that's right, all you have is "emotion" and how it "should" work. And you call Christians "Creationists".....

 

[JimBowie1958]

Truly, you are asking this?

In the last 100 years, we repeatedly invaded nations in our own hemisphere in the pursuit of nationalism not justice.

There was no reason to wage war in Iraq at all.

Neo-conservatism has nearly turned America into a 3rd rate nation.

Well then if this is a Christian nation, why does the US rightwinged religious christians object to welfare so much and want to wage war?

Welfare does not target "widows and orphans". It allows the gov't to make a voting block that will vote according to political leaders, not what is best for the country.
Defending yourself is a "Christian/Judeo" principal, only in non-Christian societies are people punished for defending themselves. War is part of defense. Can you show where the USA has taken over another country (by right of a war victory) in the last one hundred years?

Oh wow, I thought you a neocon, but it would appear your just a regular ole neoMarxist instead, spewing hate for America.

So sad.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your language is neo-facist, racist, and dominionists. Nothing you can say can change that until you admit and repent your failures.

JimBowie's opinions are not fact, but is racism is apparent and awful.

Of course my opinons are not fact, you stupid shit. Jesus H Christ!

And once again, you say I am a racist but fail to provide evidence.

More bullshit from Starkey!

 

[JakeStarkey]

JimBowie hates America: he lies about the country's creation, its religious orientation, and the separation of church and state, and its commitment to equality.

He will have to let the butt hurt continue to flow through him.

Truly, you are asking this?

In the last 100 years, we repeatedly invaded nations in our own hemisphere in the pursuit of nationalism not justice.

There was no reason to wage war in Iraq at all.

Neo-conservatism has nearly turned America into a 3rd rate nation.

Welfare does not target "widows and orphans". It allows the gov't to make a voting block that will vote according to political leaders, not what is best for the country.
Defending yourself is a "Christian/Judeo" principal, only in non-Christian societies are people punished for defending themselves. War is part of defense. Can you show where the USA has taken over another country (by right of a war victory) in the last one hundred years?

Oh wow, I thought you a neocon, but it would appear your just a regular ole neoMarxist instead, spewing hate for America.

So sad.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Sounds exactly like what David Barton wants to do: sublimate the narrative and history to a philosophy and belief based on falsehood.

In fact, America is a nation of Christian generally whose government is secular and federal.

Wow, we agree on something. The American version of fascism will come from fanatical fake fundamentalists using their doctrines to persecute other Christians, if we ever have that sort of thing.

I agree with your second sentence entirely.

You have finally acheived broke clock acuracy, dumbshit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

None of which makes our government Christian.

I never claimed that it is. I claim that it was established by Christians and that this is a Christian nation. I have consistently stated that the federal government was secular from the start and the states once had religious establishments.

Wake the fuck up.

You have to give proof in law to show what you are claiming, and you can't do it.

No I dont have to give proof in law about anything as I am not arguing from the bsis of law except to point to the Founding Documents of the US legal code.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie's neo-fascist Christian dominionism is leading him astray, but not the rest of us who understand God and understand our Constitution and government.

Lol, you are such a slanderous jack ass.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, you changed your original statements to agree with mine. You are the one, though, who wants to persecute other Christians. Son, your small insignficant minority is not going to tell the rest of us how to rule America.

Your type of neo-fascism and white racist supremacy is not wanted in America.

You get to have your own opinion though.

Sounds exactly like what David Barton wants to do: sublimate the narrative and history to a philosophy and belief based on falsehood.

In fact, America is a nation of Christian generally whose government is secular and federal.

Wow, we agree on something. The American version of fascism will come from fanatical fake fundamentalists using their doctrines to persecute other Christians, if we ever have that sort of thing.

I agree with your second sentence entirely.

You have finally acheived broke clock acuracy, dumbshit.