WTF is a THOUGHT CRIMES BILL????????

[eots]

No worries Lookout.........................

emos are for girly men and little girls

 

[nibor]

I read the text of it. IMO, it won't fly. You're just fearmongering.

I don't think the First Amendment should be censored.

At the same time, do you REALLY think the intent of the First Amendment is to give voice to those that wish to destroy it? The Constiution is not a suicide pact.

IMO, the litmus test should be when freedom of speech allows the promotion of ideals that if brought to fruition are criminal acts.

Whatever happened to common sense in this country?

FEAR MONGERING WTF Gunny um peak your head out once in a while, look around man.....................everything today is being pushed to EXTREMES!!!!

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT IN THIS CASE.........................SOMEBODY'S GONNA PUSH IT TO THE NTH DEGREE................COUNT ON IT!!!!!!!!!

 

[nibor]

emos are for girly men and little girls

Yeah and you need dentile work.................you got ugly teeth..............didn't you mom teach ya nothin' ??????????

 

[eots]

Yeah and you need dentle work.................you got ugly teeth..............didn't you mom teach ya nothin' ??????????

nothing personal just one mans humble opinion on emos..you should certainly express yourself as you see fit...but if I where king of the world...

 

[nibor]

I'm not my son.................preconcieved notions...............what a concept??

 

[Taomon]

I read the text of it. IMO, it won't fly. You're just fearmongering.

I don't think the First Amendment should be censored.

At the same time, do you REALLY think the intent of the First Amendment is to give voice to those that wish to destroy it? The Constiution is not a suicide pact.

IMO, the litmus test should be when freedom of speech allows the promotion of ideals that if brought to fruition are criminal acts.

Whatever happened to common sense in this country?

Inciting to riot is a crime. Discussing the need for revolution is not. When we limit the first amendment to not allow the discussion of ideals, that if brought to fuition are criminal acts, we limit that freedom period.

One of the most famous known activities of Mensa groups is to plan the perfect murder. Would that not, under your suggestion, be punishable as a crime?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Inciting to riot is a crime. Discussing the need for revolution is not. When we limit the first amendment to not allow the discussion of ideals, that if brought to fuition are criminal acts, we limit that freedom period.

One of the most famous known activities of Mensa groups is to plan the perfect murder. Would that not, under your suggestion, be punishable as a crime?

In some States it IS a crime to plan a crime. You never have to execute the plan and in fact the plan could just be a mental exersize, but by that State law it is a crime.

As for insurrection discussing it in an academic matter is not a crime. And I seriously doubt it ever will become a crime. But organizing , training and preparing to actually revolt SHOULD be a crime.

Now I know that it may some day be needed for us to revolt. That does not change the fact that the Government has a duty and responsibility to protect itself. The difference between a Patriot and a traitor is who wins. No matter which side your on and think is right.

 

[Steerpike]

In some States it IS a crime to plan a crime. You never have to execute the plan and in fact the plan could just be a mental exersize, but by that State law it is a crime.

As for insurrection discussing it in an academic matter is not a crime. And I seriously doubt it ever will become a crime. But organizing , training and preparing to actually revolt SHOULD be a crime.

Now I know that it may some day be needed for us to revolt. That does not change the fact that the Government has a duty and responsibility to protect itself. The difference between a Patriot and a traitor is who wins. No matter which side your on and think is right.

What States are those? Even Conspiracy requires at least one affirmative act in furtherance of the Conspiracy before it can be charged, not just agreement to commit a crime.

 

[Lookout]

nothing personal just one mans humble opinion on emos..you should certainly express yourself as you see fit...but if I where king of the world...

IF IIIIIIIIIIIIII,,,WERE KIIING,,,OF THE FORRRREEEEEEEEEEST!!!!

 

[Shogun]

What States are those? Even Conspiracy requires at least one affirmative act in furtherance of the Conspiracy before it can be charged, not just agreement to commit a crime.

Did you just ask him to post EVIDENCE?






FOOL! Evidence is not legal tender around here.

 

[Lookout]

Did you just ask him to post EVIDENCE?






FOOL! Evidence is not legal tender around here.

LMAO

 

[Taomon]

In some States it IS a crime to plan a crime. You never have to execute the plan and in fact the plan could just be a mental exersize, but by that State law it is a crime.

I disagree, it depends upon the context...which that new law will remove context and make any discussion of dissent, revolt, and/or crimes against the state as a Federal crime.

 

[jillian]

What States are those? Even Conspiracy requires at least one affirmative act in furtherance of the Conspiracy before it can be charged, not just agreement to commit a crime.

Exactly... but the overt act can be pretty minor.

 

[Steerpike]

Exactly... but the overt act can be pretty minor.

True, jillian.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Exactly... but the overt act can be pretty minor.

Like taking pictures of the place you plan the crime for. Or having drawn plans of said place and instructions on timing and events.

 

[Steerpike]

Like taking pictures of the place you plan the crime for. Or having drawn plans of said place and instructions on timing and events.

What States make those things illegal?

 

[Gunny]

Inciting to riot is a crime. Discussing the need for revolution is not. When we limit the first amendment to not allow the discussion of ideals, that if brought to fuition are criminal acts, we limit that freedom period.

One of the most famous known activities of Mensa groups is to plan the perfect murder. Would that not, under your suggestion, be punishable as a crime?

You would be wrong. Discussing the need for revolution (as in violent overthrow of the government) is sedition.

Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What States make those things illegal?

I believe at one time Connecticut had such laws, Maybe it was Rhode Island. Doesn't matter they exist or did.

And conspiracy laws exist in lots more places and require very little to prove.

 

[Lookout]

How Americans are not outraged at this bill, and flooding their congresspeople with calls, emails, and even personal appearances to voice opposition over this bill, is beyond me.

We're literally turning into Nazi Germany here, and no one seems to notice except the "kooks".

I'm a KOOK!!! let me in, let me in. I was just talking with someone and wondering how far we can go in out 1st ammendment here before suddenly there is no more posts by that person or set of persons. I have already started throwing in disclaimers in my subjects. Perhaps we need to develope our own code for speaking on the board before some of us end up in a Fema camp or guatanimo or just dead. Perhaps this is something to ponder...If we the people have become so afraid of speaking because the Government has taken away our 1st amendment, That it is time to take back the government and our 1st amendment. THey are going to limit our conversations to where nothing can be talked about without fear of insurgency by them...Our Government has imposed on us the fear to speak...Why do we have such a government and why do we not assemble about 10 million people to march on washington and take back the white house and install a temporary government including the house and the senate, rewritte the laws and put them back where they belong and try Bush, cheney for crimes against the constitution and America and sentence them...Then start holding elections the right way...fair and even where the majority vote wins. eliminate this electoral college and all that crap. Put 20 people on a list, let the people vote. whoever wins...is it Period.

Disclaimer***I have no knowledge of ever writing this nor did I mean it if I ever do remember.

 

[pegwinn]

How Americans are not outraged at this bill, and flooding their congresspeople with calls, emails, and even personal appearances to voice opposition over this bill, is beyond me.

We're literally turning into Nazi Germany here, and no one seems to notice except the "kooks".

I guess I am not getting it.

This bill is to create a Commission. It establishes makes nothing a crime, it sets no punishment. IOW it appears on a fast scan to be a study group.

From the text (emphasis added):

`(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents. I would change should to shall. The former is suggestive while the latter is directive.
`(9) Certain governments, including the Government of the United Kingdom, the Government of Canada, and the Government of Australia have significant experience with homegrown terrorism and the United States can benefit from lessons learned by those nations. I'd leave this out. It's a sure bet someone will start the "we are using others laws to make our laws" argument just as they did the USSC a while ago

Perhaps I missed something. I only read the first three pages of posts and the last page. If there is something in the text of the bill I should be specifically scared of...... post it here please.

BTW, we are already liable for thoughts. It's called Hate Crimes legislation.